Princess Diana Part 2: The Truth Behind Her Divorce from Charles and the Royal Fallout

Princess Diana Part 2: The Truth Behind Her Divorce from Charles and the Royal Fallout

[NEW] Kyle: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] Welcome to the Compendium and Assembly of Fascinating Things, a weekly variety podcast that gives you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering.

Adam Cox: We explore stories from the darker corners of true crime, the hidden gems of history and the jaw dropping deeds of extraordinary people.

[NEW] Kyle: I'm of course, your host for this week, Kyle Reese.

Adam Cox: And I'm Adam Cox, the balloon animal ethics coordinator this week.

[NEW] Kyle: Oh, God,

Adam Cox: Well, you know, these, these animals, they are twisted and contorted. Without their consent, who knows what they're gonna be turned into? They get popped. They get given to children.

[NEW] Kyle: yeah, that's dangerous. That's one way of guaranteeing that a balloon animal goes extinct. You could even say,

Adam Cox: exactly.

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Adam Cox: Crutch, right where you want us,

[NEW] Kyle: I get that feeling. You really like saying the word crotch.

It's gross. Really?

Adam Cox: it's a really weird word actually. What do you think about it?

[NEW] Kyle: People always say moist is a bad word. I'm not indifferent to that. I think moist is fine, you

Adam Cox: But crotch, um,

[NEW] Kyle: is weird.

Adam Cox: do, is there a word in other languages for crotch, do you think?

[NEW] Kyle: Gusted is a very good word.

Adam Cox: If English isn't your first language, let's know if, yeah, there's a translation for crotch and [00:03:00] gusset.

[NEW] Kyle: And actually what we'll do is every week we'll then say a new word for crotch instead of crotch. So we can always be dangling near your gusset.

Adam Cox: gross. So lastly, guys, please follow us on your favorite podcast app and leave us a review. Your support really helps us find and reach new people that love these amazing stories.

[NEW] Kyle: So Adam, today on the Compendium, we are diving into an assembly of private tapes, power plays, and a very awkward set of phone calls.

Adam Cox: While I know we're talking about Diana, again, this episode, and I know exactly what that phone call is,

[NEW] Kyle: Actually, there are two phone calls that we are gonna be touching on today, but yes, we'll be talking about the infamous tampon gate today.

But yes, today we're continuing our saga into the life of Princess Diana. This episode is gonna be all about the rest of the marriage, the separation, and the eventual divorce.

And this is a really interesting one because we [00:04:00] get to see some really raw, real aspects of who Diana is as a person. And Adam, i'm living for it. In the next episode and the final episode, we're gonna dedicate an entire episode to the last year of Diana's life, which of course, as we know leads us to her death in Paris in 1997, which is real somber and sad.

And it's probably the section of her life that people mostly remember because it's really where she becomes truly her own independent person. She really starts to step into what the rest of her life would've been had she survived. And so I'm looking forward to that episode.

But Adam, this episode is a crazy, for a whole set of different reasons. So we covered Diana's early life, last episode, the courtship and of course the early marriage. Do you wanna catch us up with what's happened so far? What are the key take homes that you remember from that episode?

Adam Cox: So what I remember is that she was brought up, her parents were a little bit, I dunno, not, not the most, loving she didn't have that [00:05:00] care and warmth. Um, then happiest times of her life was when she was what, like a young adult, like 18, 19 or whatever. She was living in a flat in, was it Camden?

[NEW] Kyle: Knowing Sloan Square.

Adam Cox: Sloan Square. Okay. Yeah. And that's what she described, I guess. Really happy time.

[NEW] Kyle: Which is really interesting because she's on the verge of becoming. A princess, right? She has these expectations of what that will be, and yet she still describes that time of isolation living in Stone Square as the happiest she's ever been, which is wild. I think that really goes to show just how awful her situation was in that royal family.

Adam Cox: Because I guess you have this preconceived idea, there's gonna be a fairytale, but then you have to learn all the tropes and things that you have to do or not do when you're in the family. And she wasn't really given that kind of education. She was just thrown in the deep end. Uh, wasn't it like Prince Philip was saying like, oh yeah, she's actually doing quite well, but she's, I don't know why I'm doing,

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. You just gotta fake it till you make it.

Adam Cox: it was a strange thing.

I [00:06:00] didn't know that Charles actually dated Diana's sister. She said something which basically said, oh, you, you are a stupid woman. I'm never gonna see you again or something. That's what Charles said. I.

[NEW] Kyle: That's right. Yeah. And that's just testament to how quickly the royal family are willing to cut people off. As a way of protecting themselves. And it's because purely she spoke to the press and she basically said that even if the King of England asked me to marry him, I would simply say no. And that was a major dent on Charles' reputation.

And so boom, he moved on to her sister.

Adam Cox: Yeah, which is odd. But anyway, that's what happened. And then Charles was the most popular royal family at the time, but the whole royal family wasn't the most popular It had been for the last couple of decades, wasn't

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. Like relatively, he was the most popular 12% approval rating. But then Diana came along, didn't she?

Adam Cox: and yeah, she basically, everyone was talking about Diana. She was the thing. She was nice. She was speaking to the crowd, she was taking flowers. She was doing everything the royal family wouldn't do, and that's [00:07:00] be relatable.

[NEW] Kyle: Hmm. Said And the what about her marriage? Because we found out, of course, that very early on, she knew from the very beginning that Charles was having an affair with.

Adam Cox: Yes. And that's where she says that line, that she realized that there was always gonna be three in their marriage, that Camilla was always gonna be there.

[NEW] Kyle: Well, actually, she won't actually say that until this episode, and we'll get onto that towards the end. But yeah, and that just dove her into this really deep depression. She started self-harming. She attempted suicide a bunch of times and just became really deeply unhappy.

And what we discovered, I think, during our chat was that it was purely down to one thing, and that was a lack of control because the second she was able to choose her own medical treatment plan, even though it was all what they say, boo hockey, because she was dabbling in astrology and acupuncture and Tai chi.

But she started to get better because she had some semblance of control.

Adam Cox: Mm. Yeah.

[NEW] Kyle: That's the thing that keeps hitting me about the story is that [00:08:00] for all the rigid rules and the rigid kind of rituals that govern everything about their lives from how they dress, how they speak, how they even wave on a balcony, they don't really have any rules that govern how to have functional relationships.

And it shows because they are such dysfunctional people. And so where we left off, Diana and Charles have been married for just over a year. Diana knew Charles was having an affair with Camilla, but for whatever reason, she goes ahead with a wedding anyway. And her thinking was that this would just be a period of Readjustments, that everything would settle down eventually, and she would adjust the royal life and Charles would give up on Camilla.

And for a while Charles actually did give up on Camilla, but for very complex dynamics at play inside their marriage. Everything just starts to unravel very fast, and it all comes down to the fact, Adam, I dunno if you agree, but it's because they just were not communicating effectively with each other.

Adam Cox: Yeah, it, it seemed like that if he would go off and like [00:09:00] go on his sort of hunting trips and do all those kind of things and just leave her alone, or when they would have a date, he would never actually spend quality time together.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, he would do these things where his idea of romance would be taking her to the malls or something and just reading her long, boring chapters from his favorite memoirist and she was just like, this is it. This is how I'm gonna die. It's not gonna be in 1997, it's gonna be right here in Balmoral.

Listening to Charles hop on about some memoirist, but like never once did he ever consider just asking her. What she's interested in, and actually what we'll find in this episode is that they have a lot of things in common. They're just not syncing up. and as a result, Diana's mental health, Adam, she starts to crack, and this is all before she gets pregnant with William.

But what is clear is that despite how hard things are for her, Diana believes if she tries hard enough, her marriage can work. But then in 1983, she walks into Charles's study, she picks up the phone, she presses redial, and on the other end of [00:10:00] that phone is Camilla Parker Bowls. And that basically confirms that Charles's affair with Camilla was back on.

And that is just a massive punch in the gut for Diana.

Adam Cox: Yeah, imagine listening to that, like I guess she's always had those suspicions or suspected that maybe something's off, and to have that reconfirmed after all this time you've been married, it's kind of like, oh, well what am I, I'm a show pony.

[NEW] Kyle: And I don't believe for a second that she believed that the affair was off completely. I always thought she probably knew the affair was off during the period when she was having William, but I think that she always lived with that fear that it would eventually start again. And this is that moment that it then gets confirmed.

Her darkest kind of fears about their marriage just gets confirmed in that moment. I'm not defending the effect. I think Charles and Camilla made choices that put Diana in a very brutal position. There is no question in my mind that if Camilla didn't like Diana, the marriage would not have gone ahead to them.

They thought Charles could fulfill his duty of [00:11:00] finding a wife, producing an heir, and Diana would be that good girl and just roll over and just let them continue sleeping together. And that sounds awful. But at the same time, I don't think Charles is this villain twirling his mustache in his dark tower somewhere.

What they are doing is not right. They are 100% hurting people. But I genuinely believe, just like Diana, that for a time he did want to make things work. He just couldn't,

Adam Cox: I think the thing is that if he could have married Camilla from the offset, like it could have been a very different story, but couldn't do that, and so had to go by the rules and get a wife another way. But I was thinking even for Camilla to sit by and know that, okay, he goes home to her in a weird way.

Um, Diana, I should say that that's an interesting perspective that she had to at least come to term with knowing that she couldn't truly be with Charles. She could only be with Charles behind closed doors. Well, what kind of relationship is that? I.

[NEW] Kyle: And it is tragic because the thing is [00:12:00] Charles, like Diana does not have that many people in this world who truly get him. So I understand how with all the pressure that comes with producing the next air, all the coldness in his marriage with Diana, that he would go back to somewhere that feels safe. And Camilla, unfortunately for Diana was that person has always been, that person has always been the person that really gets him.

And it's not like Charles was constantly stepping out on Diana with dozens of women. Right. It was just Camilla. Camilla has been the solid constant in his life for years, and it is undeniable that he has this deep connection with her. Being with her is just easy for him in a way that at this point, it wasn't with Diana.

So. What I want to do is I want to give you a sense of just how comfortable Charles is with Camilla. We're actually gonna jump ahead a few years and it's just gonna be for a minute because we'll come back. But this is going to get wild because we are gonna talk about, wait for it. Charles. A sex tape [00:13:00] with Camilla?

Adam Cox: This isn't actually like a videotape, right?

[NEW] Kyle: No, but it's a sex tape. It's still on tape.

Adam Cox: Uh, so this is tampon gate, right?

[NEW] Kyle: Yes, this is a story that when it breaks, it pulls into question whether or not he is even fit to be king. And it is a secretly recorded phone conversation known as the Tampon gate tapes. And of course, as you say, you, you know about this. So you're familiar with what it's all about.

And yes, it is exactly as horrifying as it sounds. And while the contents are extremely private, it demonstrates something very clear about his relationship with Camilla. And that is that, can't believe I'm saying this, but it is healthy and it is functional in a world where functional normal relationships are very scarce to hit.

So the call was actually recorded by an amateur radio enthusiast who happen to intercept the signal. We don't actually have the recording to play, but I do have the transcript. And so we, Adam, are gonna role play it

Adam Cox: Oh God.

[NEW] Kyle: you should be, Charles [00:14:00] and I will be amila.

Adam Cox: Tell me that feels right.

[NEW] Kyle: Right. I'm gonna send you the transcripts. If you can just open it up and it starts with Charles so far away.

Adam Cox: Oh God. Do I need to put on a voice for this?

[NEW] Kyle: You can put on any voice you want.

Adam Cox: All the voice I can think of is Alan Rickman and I dunno if I could keep that up the whole time. Um, he thought he might have gone too far.

[NEW] Kyle: Oh, well she, she smokes a lot. She smokes a lot, lady.

Adam Cox: She does anyway, you know, that's the sort of thing one has to be aware of and sort of feel one's way along with, if you know what I mean.

[NEW] Kyle: Mm. You're awfully good at fitting your way along.

Adam Cox: stop. I want to feel my way along. You all over you and up and down. You and in and out.

[NEW] Kyle: Oh, Charles.

Adam Cox: Particularly in and out.

[NEW] Kyle: Oh, that's what I need at the moment.

Adam Cox: Is it?

[NEW] Kyle: I know it would revive me. I can't bear a Sunday night without you.

Adam Cox: Oh [00:15:00] God.

[NEW] Kyle: It's like that program start the week. I can't start the week without you, Charles.

Adam Cox: I fill up your tank,

[NEW] Kyle: Yes you do.

Adam Cox: then you can cope.

[NEW] Kyle: Then I'm all right.

Adam Cox: What about me? The trouble is, I need you several times a week.

[NEW] Kyle: Mm. So do I I need you all week all the time.

Adam Cox: Oh God. I'll just live inside your trousers or something. It'd be much easier.

[NEW] Kyle: Ha ha ha ha ha. Whatcha you going to turn into a pair of knickers? Oh, you're going to come back as a pair of knickers.

Adam Cox: Oh, God forbid a town packs. Just my luck.

[NEW] Kyle: You are a complete idiot. Ha, ha ha. What a wonderful idea.

Adam Cox: My luck to be chucked down the lavatory and go on and on forever swirling around the top. Never going down

[NEW] Kyle: Oh darling,

Adam Cox: until the next one comes through.

[NEW] Kyle: oh, perhaps you could come back as a box,

Adam Cox: What sort of box.

[NEW] Kyle: a box of Tampa packs. So you could just [00:16:00] keep going,

Adam Cox: That's true.

[NEW] Kyle: repeating yourself. Ho ho. Oh darling, I just want you now.

Adam Cox: Do you?

[NEW] Kyle: Mm.

Adam Cox: So do I.

[NEW] Kyle: Desperately, desperately, desperately. So yeah, that is his sex tape.

Adam Cox: Do you know what? I was reading that and I don't really know what he was getting at. Like I get he wants to be a tampon and he wants to go in and out. I get it, but I'm always just, this isn't sexy. How are you turned on by this?

[NEW] Kyle: First of all, when this tape leaks, it's obviously a PR disaster, right? It tanks Charles' reputation like never before. People start calling for the line of succession to skip him in tightly and go straight to William because they don't think that he is fit enough to be king. But Adam here is the thing.

That tape gives us a glimpse into how intimate and emotionally open Charles can be, right? The sad part is it's just not with Diana.

Adam Cox: Yes. That is sad, but I just don't know. Is Diana, if she heard this, would she be going, oh, I wish he was my tampon. Would she be saying that? I [00:17:00] dunno. I just feel like,

[NEW] Kyle: She does hear this, and it is heartbreaking. We'll get onto that later because it reveals something really dark about their marriage. But what is clear is that this isn't some transactional mistress situation, right? This is a couple who are flirty and giggly and gross and very much in love. The transcript does go on for like six more minutes, and it's basically just the two of them coordinating their sex life.

Like how are we gonna sneak around for the next week and have sex? So when Charles says something like, Ugh, I wish I could just live inside your pants. It's just boyfriend girlfriend. Nonsense. Yes, it's deeply weird. It's deeply private. Yes, it's normal and functional, not something that unfortunately he has with Diana.

Like we've all had these conversations with our partners, right? And don't get me wrong. This is still an act of infidelity. He is lying, but both of them are in the situation that is wildly out of their control because of the institution that they're part of. But most [00:18:00] importantly it's because they cannot communicate.

Adam Cox: Yeah, it's a private thing, right? So we're laughing about it, but between the two people, it's quite sweet. Like you say, they're in love and everything like that. It's just, yeah, they didn't know that their phone was being tapped and listened into, right.

[NEW] Kyle: Hence why it's a deep invasion of their privacy, I guess. But Charles had re

Adam Cox: which we just reenacted.

[NEW] Kyle: but this episode is about sympathizing with Diana, so

Adam Cox: Okay.

[NEW] Kyle: it's, it gives us license. And Charles, remember, he was raised in a system that never teaches him how to actually be human with someone. And as a result, he doesn't see Diana's pain.

He doesn't get why she's unraveling, he is not being calculatedly malicious. He literally just does not know. And Diana remember, she's still so young, she doesn't know how to advocate for herself or how to demand what she needs. And when she does, of course, the system that she's in means that her needs are just completely disregarded.

And as a result. She retweets, she dwells on it. [00:19:00] It causes her grief and frustration, which just ends up compounding itself. Basically, the gist is these two are the worst possible match for each other for very complex and very difficult set of reasons.

So next to all of that, every single transaction between Charles and Diana just boozes resentment and contempt.

They're constantly going at each other. There is this comment in Andrew Morton's book, basically where Diana is sitting at a formal dinner. She's already very self-conscious about everything that's going on. She's already struggling and she says something like, oh, this dinner looks really good. And Charles is like.

Isn't that just gonna come up later? What a waste. It's like Jesus Christ, Charles. Yeah. So this is something that's very sensitive. Her bulimia, it's inflicting her, it's causing her a lot of suffering, and it comes from a place of anxiety. And yet Charles is lost. Even the desire to even care about those basic things.

Adam Cox: It sounds like they're just being very petty [00:20:00] or just anything to kind of get one over. Right. I mean, I'm sure that she probably did the same to him, so whilst

[NEW] Kyle: Oh yes. 100%.

Adam Cox: yeah, so just it's that kind of any opportunity just to get one over. And it's sad, really, because actually if they, I don't know if she got, if she got the help that perhaps she needed at the time, some of this could have, it would've gotten past it, or at least they would've been more civil to each other.

[NEW] Kyle: And yet weirdly, they're still both clicking onto this idea that maybe this is all just a phase and maybe it'll just pass. And I think this is evidence. In December of 1983, Diana finds out that she is pregnant again. And in a moment they do actually reconnect and things between them get a little bit better.

They are both hoping that the baby is gonna be a girl. But in April, Diana actually finds out that it's gonna be another boy. And so, because she doesn't want this period of reconnection to fade, she doesn't tell Charles, he only finds out it's a boy after Harry is actually born.

Adam Cox: What,

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah.

Adam Cox: so was she fearful then? If he [00:21:00] found out it was a boy, he wouldn't be as interested then.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. Because he was hoping it was gonna be a girl.

Adam Cox: I see. Wow.

[NEW] Kyle: But at the moment, Harry's born things snap right back into that downward spiral. And Charles, who remember, is a public figure whose literal job is to smile and wave and keep up appearance, can't even pretend that he's happy about it. And this is not just with the news that Harry is a boy.

It's Adam with everything. There is this moment about a year after Harry is born that illustrates this perfectly. Both Charles and Diana, they're at like the Royal Ballet for a variety show. They're sitting in the royal box. Diana leans over to him and says, darling, will you excuse me? I just need to go to the powder room.

Five minutes later, the curtains raise, and there's Diana on stage, and she ends up doing this whole dance number to like Billy Joel's uptown girl. That's really sweet. She kills it. The crowd goes wild. She gets like nine standing ovations. At one point, she even turns to Charles and gives him a little curtsy, and it's a moment of brilliance on [00:22:00] Diana's part because again, the profile of the royal family just skyrockets.

So it's a really cute moment that shows how relatable the royal family can be by giving this sweet little insight into this young, high profile couple's life.

But Charles is furious and he's just not able to conceal it, even with the cameras on. After the show, he doesn't congratulate Diana. He doesn't say, wow, darling, that was amazing. Thank you so much for doing that for me. Instead, he tells her that was undignified. He says, you're too thin, you're too flashy, and says, the entire spectacle was not becoming of a royal.

And this is a good example of their inability to communicate with one another. Because in Tina Brown's book, she talks about how the year before Charles and Diana had done a comedy ski together, and it had gone over really well, they got a ton of press for it.

Charles was really ecstatic. The public's opinion of him was starting to change again. So this is something he wanted to do every year purely because it elevated his [00:23:00] profile.

So when she goes off and does this without him, instead of saying, Hey darling, do you know what I felt left out? Or, this meant something really special to me last year?

He just ends up lashing out. So instead, what Diana hears is, you're too undignified and you're too thin.

Adam Cox: Why does her weight come into it? Like why is

[NEW] Kyle: to hurt her, isn't he,

Adam Cox: Yeah, like she's trying to do a nice thing and fair enough. Is it because he, you know, the jealousy, like the attention's not on him. She's gonna get all this attention. She's causing attention, which isn't what the royal family do essentially.

[NEW] Kyle: Adam? It comes back to what I've said before. They just do not know how to communicate with each other. it. And here's the thing. As a public persona, she 100% understands that part of her job is creating emotional compositions. And it's all about optics, right? And she is new to this, remember? And she gets that really acutely.

Charles, who's been groomed for this role entire life, still has not figured that out. And it makes me question [00:24:00] what he actually thinks his job is like. He genuinely thinks that he's supposed to be taken seriously as an academic thinker and an intellect. But the reality is that's the monarchy from like 300 years ago.

The public doesn't want that from a monarch, and he just does not get that. Do you know what I mean? Like he doesn't have any PR instincts whatsoever. But Diana, by contrast, she has incredible instincts. She feels how a story is gonna play sometimes even before it happens.

Another example of how bad Charles is at this is when Prince William gets hit in the head with a golf club. It's fairly serious. He is rushed in for scans and assessments. There's a whole thing about it in the papers. Yet Charles keeps all his scheduled engagements, right? He goes to the opera, he meets with European diplomats.

For him, it's just business as usual. And then he acts all shocked the next morning when every single paper in the country is screaming, what kind of father does this when your son is in hospital potentially with a concussion or whatever?

And like, Adam, he is not wrong, but he [00:25:00] just also doesn't understand the optics of how these things can come across, especially as a public figure.

Adam Cox: Because if you're a typical family, regardless of how serious it is, like you, you shouldn't be, not you shouldn't be, but I think it's just, it makes sense that you make sure that your child's okay. And so if you're going off to another party, unless, oh, actually it's it. I've had confirmation. It's absolutely fine.

I don't need to be there.

[NEW] Kyle: Exactly. But at the same time, like if you're any other family, if it was me and you and you got hit in the head with a golf club and you are stuck in hospital and I knew we were just waiting for tests, I would still go back to work. But he's a public figure and that's the important thing. It is all about his optics.

One more example of this is when Charles breaks his arm in a polo accident, the recovery ends up taking ages and he's had a public life for a few weeks, and of course the press starts speculating as I normally do, of how he really broke his arm, right? Charles thinks the press are like just complete idiots for this.

And so he gets this idea that he's gonna hold a press conference when he recovers or is out of hospital, where he's going to [00:26:00] pretend that he has a fake arm and he's gonna let the press believe. He's had it amputated. So he's planning on walking in, wearing this prosthetic arm with a hook at the end of it, and then midway through he's gonna rip it off in a dramatic way and say, see, it's a fake arm.

You are all ridiculous. Now Diana's like, listen darling, all this is going to do

Adam Cox: I've got some notes.

[NEW] Kyle: yeah, yes. It's going to give the tabloids just even more ammunition to come after you. She basically, she sees this for what it is a dumb idea, but he's insistence and so there's no changing his mind. So in the end, Diana is like, tells the stuff, okay, just get in the fake arm.

And then on the morning of the press conference, we'll pretend it's gone missing and be like, oops, I guess you'll have to just go ahead and just do a normal press conference. And that's exactly what ends up happening, basically.

Adam Cox: No way. So she sabotages it in the best way, but that's so funny.

[NEW] Kyle: And so at this moment in time, Diana, of course is at the height of her popularity amongst the public, [00:27:00] but she's also a hot commodity amongst the press. Around this point, the tabloids are sort of becoming obsessed with the idea that she's having an affair, and there's no actual evidence of this. It's just purely speculation, but they treat it like it's a foregone conclusion.

What's wild is that Charles is actually having an affair, and everybody kind of knows it. The paparazzi will literally watch Shya drive out of High Grove, and then 15 minutes later, Camilla's Cole will just put up in the driveway, right? And yet there's just nothing printed about it In the papers when anything does make it to the press, it's mostly vague euphemisms like Charles spotted on a beach in Turkey with female confidants.

Do you know what I mean? The dynamics there are just awful.

Adam Cox: But the thing is, like the firm or the institution, they've got people in the press, haven't they? They've got this relationship, so they have to, like, sometimes they leak stories or whatever it is. They have their influence over the

[NEW] Kyle: Exactly. 100%. Whereas Diana, she'll go to the David Boa concert with a couple of her male friends. She'll be [00:28:00] sitting between them, but the tabloids will go ahead and crop out the second guy to make it look like she's having date night with someone. Right. It gets to the point where she has to strategically avoid being seen with many public, unless they're known homosexuals like El John.

Meanwhile, Charles barely tries to hide what he's doing and there is zero speculation. It's just so bizarre. Exactly As you said, it's probably 'cause they have an understanding with that press. Right?

So I dunno if this is just simply gender dynamics at play or if maybe even possibly he's just really boring to the public. Yeah. You can print an article about him having an affair with Camilla. Everyone knows that. But is it really gonna sell papers? Probably not.

Adam Cox: I dunno, because I think the public is obviously backing Diana. Uh, I guess the press don't wanna cause that kind of controversy.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, it's probably more likely eventually Diana does start letting go of this idea that the marriage is salvageable. It becomes purely about appearances to the point that on official trips, they start booking separate hotel rooms and then like 10 minutes before the event, they'll meet up [00:29:00] in a lay by somewhere. And then just walk in arm in arm. Like nothing is wrong.

Andrew Morton says she seems to dread Charles's appearance. Like the days when she's happiest are when he's in Scotland. When he's at Kensington Palace, he just feels like a child again. And Adam, I 100% get this like my stepdad worked away a lot, right?

I come from a hugely emotionally abusive. Kind of background. So when he was away, those were the happiest times for us where we could just chill out. Me, my sister, my mom. And so as the week came to a close, knowing that he'd be coming home on a Friday, the entire atmosphere around the house would just shift in the lead up to him coming back home.

So I completely understand how being away from Charles was probably just a massive sense of relief for her. At this point. There is like this event where they're chatting with some ambassador and he asked Diana, so like, what are you most looking forward to your trip here in [00:30:00] Qatar, for example? And she's got like a whole itinerary plan.

Like she's gonna be visiting some orphanages, she's gonna be meeting with delegates, she's about to answer, but before she can, Charles just cuts in and is like, she's just mostly shopping and then just keeps talking over her. And of course she can't contradict the future king. So she's like, yep, that's me. I'm, I'm just mostly shopping.

So. You can imagine being in that kind of situation where that's constantly happening, how you would just be like, oh, I can't be around this person anymore, no matter how much I want to try. It's just, I'm just done.

Adam Cox: It feels like you know her. Her identity is stripped. Really? That's, and so she just has to. Play along, say the right things, whatever. And yeah, like you say, like when she's away, maybe not just from Charles but maybe some of these kind of orchestrated events as well. She can just be herself.

[NEW] Kyle: When you see pictures of 'em together during this period of time, it's often in the backseat of a car. They're going to an event. They both just look so miserable, Adam, it's just so bleak.

So it gets to the point where [00:31:00] Diana's like, do you know what? If Charles is getting some in the arms of another woman, then I want to get some too.

And so she actually does start having an affair. It's between 1984 and 1986. She starts having, at the very least, an emotional relationship with her bodyguard. And he's a guy called Barry Mankey. Do you know much about him?

Adam Cox: Um, I dunno if I'd do actually.

[NEW] Kyle: So Andrew Morton doesn't really go deep yet. It's interesting because she's quite open about a lot of her affairs. This one, there's not really that much substance to it, and I think it's because, of course his book is approved by Diana. So maybe there's certain details that she deliberately kept thin on the ground because maybe it was more impactful in her life.

I dunno, maybe it was something she was uncomfortable with sharing. But Thena Brown, she's obsessed with who Diana was shagging all throughout her life. So she talks at length about how much time they literally spent together, and it's because he was probably a constant, consistent source of comfort for her.

Like she'd come back to the limo after an event with Charles. She's completely drained, she's completely shaken, and then she would just [00:32:00] collapse into Barry's arms and just sob in the back of this limousine. It's really sad.

Adam Cox: I guess she just wants to be comforted. Right? And that that's the guy that was able to do that. She's not getting that from Charles. She's probably not getting it from anywhere else. Yeah. It's understandable that a romantic relationships could start with him.

[NEW] Kyle: But then in 1987, just completely outta the blue, Barry is transferred outta the palace. Diana believes that the palace probably had something to do with it, and then Adam, a few months later in May, he's killed in a motorcycle accident. He was riding on the back of a friend's bike when a 17-year-old girl pulls out of the side road and he, he's killed instantly, naturally, later on the tabloids go wild with conspiracy theories that perhaps this was maybe a setup and that he was murdered as a way of silencing him because of potentially him having an affair with Diana, like rumors that fly around the palace all the time.

So it is conspiratorial at best, right? I don't believe he was killed. It was just a tragic accident. Diana comes to believe that [00:33:00] this is true, and it's because other strange things happen on top of this, and it makes her question things. And so this is the start of her becoming really, really paranoid. The way that she finds out about Barry's death is honestly just brutal.

It's Charles who tells her and it's clear. He has always suspected something has happened. As I said, gossip flies around the palace all the time. So in a very pointed way in the middle of an event, he just says to her, do you remember that bodyguard of yours? Well, yeah, he's dead. And so because they're at an event, she has to maintain her composure.

And she's like, oh, really? That's too bad. He was in nice guy. And then later when Charles is at her sight, she just breaks down,

Adam Cox: What a way to break that news. I hope he wouldn't find any joy in that.

[NEW] Kyle: no, well, And it is just a, oh, this happened, by the way.

well, at this moment in time, we know they're at this point where they are deliberately saying things to dig at each other. So I'm not convinced that he wouldn't have said it in that way.

So Diana's next affair is actually with a man named James Hewitt. Do you recognize that name?

Adam Cox: [00:34:00] Yeah. I know James Hewitt because he's been well speculation and everyone loves the conspiracy. It's been speculated that he's Harry's father in the past.

[NEW] Kyle: That's right. Yeah. So he's like a cavalry officer in the household division. Basically, he's in charge of all the queen's horses and he comes from a military background. He's very polished. He's actually very handsome, but most importantly, Adam, as you pointed out, he's ginger. And so of course, once the media catches Windol, the James Het affair, there is all the speculation that he is actually Marie's father.

And even today you'll see like the occasional tabloid side by side photo of James and Harry talking about how similar they look. But the truth is Diner doesn't actually meet James Hewitts until two years after Harry is born. So this timeline, unfortunately just does not add up in any way. He is not the father.

Adam Cox: You're telling me that the press are printing a story that doesn't make sense?

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, they will literally, they, one thing that we'll find about all of this is they will find puzzle pieces and they'll swim together to make them [00:35:00] fit, even though they don't actually go. That's the running theme throughout all of these three episodes. But yes, they absolutely had an affair and it goes on Adam for five years.

Here's what Tina Brown says about it. From the very beginning to the very end, it was Diana who ran this affair. She was as much in control of its pace and rhythms as she had been out of control of the pace and rhythms leading up to her marriage. This would be her romantic pattern from now on. Forget the modest blushing, she would do the initiating.

There are few men bold enough to make the first move on the Princess of Wales and Adam. That is the truth. Like she is the most famous woman in the world. She has to be the one to initiate anything. If she wants to get someone to rummage around in her nickers, it is just it's fact.

Adam Cox: I can't believe we're still using that phrase.

[NEW] Kyle: Uh, apparently she first notices James when he is walking through Buckham Palace and immediately she starts [00:36:00] asking questions about who he is.

When she finds out, she asks me really sneaky. So she makes sure that he's on a guest list for a party that she's throwing. goes up to him and she says, I've always resisted learning to ride horses because it's something my husband does, but I now think it's time that I learned translation. Hi, handsome Gingerman.

Do you wanna shag me?

Adam Cox: Yeah, I, I wanna ride your horse.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, spank me. We can think of so many horse euphemisms. It's during one of those lessons that she leans in and steals a kiss, and that is how their affair starts basically. And so it's really cute. They routinely sneak off to various country houses. She'll like drive two hours out of the city. They'll then do it and then she'll drive back before anyone notices.

And Adam is really hot.

Adam Cox: It's so strange that this is, they just have all these secret events, so everyone probably knows what's going on, but yeah, she is. Oh, I'm gonna go off for my writing lesson. I was like, oh, of course you are, Diana.

[NEW] Kyle: But as Tina says, it was all on her terms, like he had nothing [00:37:00] that she wanted from him. But again, in 1989, James gets posted to Germany. Diana pulls some strings to try and stop it, but ultimately she loses that fight. They tried to make it work long distance for a while, but when James ends up selling his story to the press, that is it for Diana.

She just cuts him off dead. And as far as I'm aware, she never speaks to him ever again. And basically she is learned to do the same thing that the rest of the royal family do. And it's probably something that you do outta protection, right.

Adam Cox: Yeah. Why did he sell the story then? Was it already, did he sense that it was over? Because it just feels like that's really shitty to do.

[NEW] Kyle: It is a really shitty thing to do, and I don't think there's any excuse for it. Like they were really important to each other, so why he would do it, I think potentially says that maybe she wasn't as important to him as she was to her.

Adam Cox: Yeah, that's a fair point. 'cause he is been on like a load of different shows. Like I'm a celebrity since then and everyone's kind of, I think especially since Diana has died that [00:38:00] um, yeah, he's got this kind of notoriety.

[NEW] Kyle: So Diana doesn't have any allies in the Royal family as we know. No one relates to her. She doesn't relate to anyone, but it is around about this time in 1986 that Diana gains a kind of ally within the Royal family. Do you know whose name I'm gonna say?

Adam Cox: Prince Philip.

[NEW] Kyle: No. Sarah Ferguson.

Do you know who Sarah Ferguson is?

Adam Cox: yeah. Prince Andrew's wife. Although they got divorced, but I dunno if they got back together.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, I think we're back together now. Fergie's actually Diana's fourth cousin, and so they've known each other since they were kids, and Diana is entirely responsible for playing matchmaker between her and Prince Andrew. She basically invites Fergie to a party. She sits her next to Andrew, and from there they hit it off.

They fall in love and they basically get married and suddenly Diana has someone in the family who actually gets it. Fergie is relatable. She's down to earth. She too. now trying to navigate the same royal madness that Diana has been grappling with [00:39:00] for years. And because Diana has a little bit more experience under her belt, she kind of becomes her mentor and it's really sweet.

She's showing her how to behave in front of the Queen, who to avoid what not to say at be moral. And just like that, those dreadful stretches at Sandham and Balmoral all of a sudden are way more tolerable to her now together they'll sneak off and disappear out the back with no shoes on. They're always giggly together.

They're rolling their eyes, or all the pomp and the absurdity of what they just had to sit through, like maybe two hours, or Princess Margaret singing show tunes on the damn piano.

Adam Cox: I imagine it'd be fun. It's like they just like once the night's over, they can go bitch about it on the balcony or

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, Adam, it's really sweet. So I'm genuinely, genuinely happy for it at this moment in time. But of course. The tabloids, they can't leave them alone, right? The press start pumping out these stories about a developing feud between them. It's just like what they did with Kate Middleton and Meghan Markle.

Every article pitted them off against each other. It's just [00:40:00] that classic thing of Diana can do no wrong, but Fergie was just either too loud, too messy, or too common, and Fergie always just came out worse.

Adam Cox: And was this instigated by like the royal family or the institution sort of thing? Would, did they basically put these stories out? I.

[NEW] Kyle: No, they didn't actually. But here is the thing, right? These fake tabloid stories, they actually do end up having an effect on how the royals start treating each other because they start to believe them. It's like you hear some rumor that someone said about you behind your back, and so this fake rivalry starts turning into a bit of a real one and it, it's slow boiling, but it, there is a little resentment there because these stories are manufactured in the press.

So it's not a case of the royal family are inventing these stories. The press are inventing them and then they become real. It's weird. But to make things worse, Fergie actually starts doing really well in the royal family. She's integrating seamlessly. She's getting along with everyone, even Prince Philip, who rarely warms to anyone.

They start [00:41:00] bonding over like horse and carriage riding, which is apparently a hobby that you can have. Also, she's getting closer to the Queen. Tina Brown writes, the queen liked her new daughter-in-law because she was a country girl and a real one this time, like Tina Brown. Why all the digging? Do you know what I mean? The Queen apparently liked how Fogy would sit with her legs apart and make jokes, which is not what you expect the Queen to like. Do you know what I mean?

Adam Cox: that's such a weird thing. I like it that your legs are apart, and I bet if Diana did that, they're like, Ugh, you know, I'm dignified.

[NEW] Kyle: Exactly. So slowly the queen starts having lunch with Fergie on the regular, and Diana's like, the queen never wants to have lunch with me. What's wrong with me? Right. And so that sows the seed of resentment between Fergie and Diana even more. Basically, Fergie transforms into everything that Diana just isn't, even though Diana hates the royal family, she desperately wants their approval.

She wants to be accepted. So seeing Fergie get all of this [00:42:00] is another just punch in the gut for Diana, right?

Adam Cox: The thing is though, does that seem a bit fake in a sense? Okay, she hates the royal family, but she wants to be accepted. Maybe that. Kind of shows to the royal family like that. She's just not that into it. And so having Fergie come in who actually takes like a duck to water and just gets along and maybe integrates better, it just feels like she gets it.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but maybe there is like an air of, there's something that Diana is giving off, essentially.

[NEW] Kyle: sure. Adam, do you know what? It is so complex. There's so many variables. We could discuss this for hours. I don't believe that Diana wasn't trying early on. Probably got to the point where after years of it, she just stopped trying, but then still missed the idea that, Hey, why can't I also be accepted getting to the point where she's done?

But she still looks back and she goes, do you know what? It would've been nice if I was accepted back then.

Once again, Diana finds herself completely alone. Again, she's lost her little ally, and again, she becomes increasingly more and [00:43:00] more isolated. She tells Andrew Morton, I got up every morning early on my own to be on my own and at nighttime I went to bed early.

It's bleak. Growing up, I always had the impression that Diana had a lot of friends, but the more I read about this story, the more it sounds like those friendships were really shallow acquaintances, if anything. Mostly because the institution makes it difficult for outsiders to penetrate through, right?

She has no one in the royal family. The friend she does have are outsiders. Like she knew a lot of people, but she'd only like see them once a month. I remember like she was super close with Elton John, but apparently they weren't as tight as we imagined. So she doesn't seem to have that many close friendships.

Her family relationships are not much better at this time either. There is a story about when Diana's mother, Francis finds out that her new husband was cheating on her with a younger woman. And Diana says, I used to ring her up and she'd cry down the telephone. I tell her, mom, you've had two goes of this [00:44:00] marriage and you cannot get it right.

You've gotta look at yourself. I'm stuck in this one and I'm worse off than you. And her mom is like, sobbing. And she's like, you've gotta let me cry. You've gotta let me cry. And Diana replies, you can cry as much as you like. It's good to cry, but you're not getting any sympathy from me. And how harsh is that?

Adam Cox: Wow. It's like, yeah, it's like my, my life is worse than yours.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. As for her stepmother Rain legs. Diana is at her brother's wedding one year, right? Everyone's there. Her mom, her dad are there, rain are there. They're all sitting at the same dinner table together. And her dad, John, and Rain literally pretend that her mother Francis does not exist, right? Eventually Diana just loses it.

She starts yelling at them, saying like, you're all acting like children. Everyone in the hall is super embarrassed. And then later on she confronts rain directly. She's screaming at her. She's saying, we've always hated you. You've ruined our family. I hope you pleased about it. [00:45:00] And then Adam, princess Diana, the Princess of Wales, the People's Princess pushes rain legs down the stairs and it's not a little trip.

Adam Rain is properly hurt.

Adam Cox: This feels like an episode of Dynasty or something.

[NEW] Kyle: Yes it is. Isn't that shocking?

Adam Cox: yeah, I don't think I really knew about this. I was not expecting like elder assault from Diana,

[NEW] Kyle: Parent aside.

Adam Cox: but then was uh rain really that bad or was Diana just kind of losing it at this point?

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. Rain was not bad at all. I feel terrible for rain. Rain is just as damaged as all of them diner, iser, and so the rest of the family or the kids anyway, because they feel like rain is coming and stolen their father right at a time when there were deso his attention. Anyway. Rain is not a bad person, person.

She genuinely loves John. Diana says, my stepmother and I ended up having this row and I pushed her down the stairs, which gave me an enormous sense of satisfaction.

My father didn't speak to me for six months.[00:46:00]

Adam Cox: I mean you, yeah, I couldn't understand it. He just tried to bump off his wife.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, so I'm afraid to say, Adam, we have to incorporate this incident into what we know about Diana. She literally pushed an old lady down the stairs.

Adam Cox: I was not on my bingo card.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. So to sum up, Diana is extremely alone. She's loved, but that's her public persona. In her personal life, she has very few allies within the family. And because being a royal is so high profile, personal relationships outside of the institution are really difficult.

Plus, she's now strained relationship with her own family. And so we're gonna change up the gears a little bit because we cannot talk about Diana without talking about her humanitarian work.

Adam Cox: Yeah. This is what she's kind of known for and loved for. Right. So it feels there's a lot of obviously, chaos going on in her private life, but that didn't stop her from doing good in the world.

[NEW] Kyle: And she was really incredible at it. By this point, it is the 1990s and the [00:47:00] AIDS crisis had already done its worst across the world. People are literally dying everywhere. People are afraid of catching it, and those with the virus are being stigmatized. Adam, it is a horrible decade. It seems like her involvement with AIDS starts because basically she keeps losing friends.

Like several of them were staffers from within the palace at Prince Charles', private secretary famously. From aids, so it becomes a real personal thing for her. And so she starts going to these AIDS hospices, and sometimes she'll even bring William and Harry with her. And it's not just AIDS clinics, like she'll take them to homeless shelters, palliative care centers, just anywhere where people are just basically hurting.

And she'll tell the boys straight like, this is what a welfare state looks like. We are extremely lucky to have what we have. You don't need to fear these people. They deserve love and support just like everyone else. And Adam, this is purely Diana, just at a complete best, right? She completely understands the system that she is in, but [00:48:00] also how powerful her image is because it's her work with AIDS that breaks down that stigma that's attached to it.

Mm-hmm.

Adam Cox: Isn't there like a particular image or incident whereby she's on like a hospital or AIDS ward and they're like, you know, put on this protection gear to protect yourself. And she's like, why do I need to do that? And so she's photographed, uh, holding the hands, I think of an AIDS victim or someone that's uh, yeah.

Dying from AIDS and it's, oh, if Diana's treating someone like a human understanding how the disease works. Yeah. It breaks down this kind of perception of what AIDS is like this kind of contagious disease that you can get in the air, whatever. It wasn't like that.

[NEW] Kyle: Basically, we might as well just skip the section 'cause that's exactly the point I was trying to get across. Obviously the photo you're talking about is that photo of the man where he has his head turned away from the camera so you don't actually see his face. And Adam, that is deliberate because he doesn't want his family to know That's how much stigma there is towards aids.

At this [00:49:00] point. When that famous photo was taken, he was only one of 12 patients willing to be photographed. And even then it was only from behind. So like you said, when she is photographed embracing this person and these people. It is like a miracle because it shifts that stigma towards AIDS and HIV within the public consciousness.

Like if Diana is reaching out, as you perfectly said, and touching these people, then maybe we've got it wrong about how the virus is spread. And here's the thing with Diana, even if the cameras are not there, she would still reach out and come these people. A perfect example of this is, remember when Charles broke his arm and he was gonna do the whole they home switcher roofing?

Adam Cox: Yeah.

[NEW] Kyle: Well, when Diana was visiting him in the hospital, she went on a wonder through the different wards and she ends up meeting this family who's mother had fallen into a coma and she starts checking in on them every day that she's at the hospital. And eventually the mom, she dies and Diana keeps visiting them.

Like she'll go to the house and have [00:50:00] dinner with them alone. There's no press, there's no photo op. Diana is just showing up and doing what she can do to comfort these people.

Adam Cox: Yeah, it's odd how she just does that all off her own back. And I guess this is why people love Diana because she just seems authentically human and has this care and love. I do wonder if there's an element of this extra love she has to give because she doesn't have those close relationships at home, and maybe she's one, maybe able to easily spot people that are hurting like herself

[NEW] Kyle: Or we know that that's true already.

Adam Cox: Yeah. And perhaps she just wants to. Feel that connection, the human warmth, the bond. And I'd not to say that she wouldn't be like this, but if she didn't have that kind of upbringing and trouble at home, I wonder if she wouldn't be quite as warm to other

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, I disagree because of course, long before all of this happened, long before she was essentially emotionally bankrupt. In her early childhood, she was demonstrating these abilities. I think this is just in her, [00:51:00] I think it's just naturally in her, which I think that makes it more powerful rather than something that she turned to.

Adam Cox: Yeah. And I, I think I do agree with that. I was just wondering what could have shaped her and informed the way that she was. But ultimately she did seem like a person that just cared.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, and this is where I really struggle to understand why Charles and Diana could find common ground in their philanthropic work, because Diana is incredible with these people, and Charles is actually really amazing at raising money. He knows how to build institutions and how to physically move resources like together.

They could have been this incredible team, but I guess by this point the relationship had deteriorated so much that any kind of synergy between them is just impossible. Instead, you have the situation where two people who are incredible at what they do. Just operating in these silos, just jabbing at each other.

Like Charles will criticize her saying, all you're doing is your surface level stuff. Shaking hands, thinking that changing hearts and minds are enough and Diana's like all you are doing is raising [00:52:00] money without actually showing up. But honestly, both of them are 100% correct because when it comes to HIV and AIDS specifically, money helps.

Yes. But you can't build infrastructure for people unless you first change hearts and minds.

Adam Cox: So in a way, they're quite the perfect team. They could have just worked together.

[NEW] Kyle: Yes. So both approaches that both of them are good at really do matter. There's a really heartbreaking story in Andrew Morton's book about Diana's friend Adrian Ward Jackson. So he's currently dying of AIDS at this point and Diana is a good see him every week. She'll sometimes bring William and Harry with her and basically she's basically watling him.

Waste away near the end, Adrian. Gives her a pager so that he can be with her when the time comes. And when that page finally comes in, diner is up in Balmoral with the royal family. And because there's no last minute flights out, she drives eight hours back to London to be with him.

Andrew Morton writes Diner's abrupt departure did not go overwhelmed with royal family who [00:53:00] were assembled in Scotland for their annual reunion.

In her rush, Diana had failed to observe Royal protocol and ask the Queen for the customary permission to leave.

Adam Cox: So she just got up and just went, sorry, gotta go bye.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. Why she would even need to do that is just beyond me. But also a few days later, the Palestine summoned Diana back to Balmoral, telling her that a simple token visit would've been enough. Basically, her devotion to a non royal was making them feel uncomfortable. Mm-hmm.

Adam Cox: think it's just this whole optics thing. 'cause are they like, oh, that's making them feel un royal, or is it, because that's not what we do. We don't show that kind of em emotion and it's just like, but that's not, but Diana.

[NEW] Kyle: apparently. Basically she had gone beyond the traditional Call of Duty, so Adam Mcg worse. So when Adrian eventually dies, they try to block her from going to his funeral because Royals are not supposed to go to funerals for communists.

Adam Cox: It's so weird,

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. In the end, [00:54:00] Diana's like, fuck you. And of course she goes

Adam Cox: yeah, good

honor.

[NEW] Kyle: Okay, so Adam, we talked about Charles and Camilla's sex tape, right? It would not be fair if we didn't also talk about Diana's sex tape.

Adam Cox: Oh no, I didn't. I didn't know if she had a sex tape.

[NEW] Kyle: Yes. She had one, and it comes to light roundabout the same time that Charles and Camilla's infamous tampon gate tape came out and the tape was actually recorded, believe it or not. Years before it was actually released, and Diana knew about it, right? And she was expecting it to be released like any day now.

But after years go by and nothing comes out, she starts speculating that maybe it was being blocked from being released by potentially someone in the royal family. And this is one of the many things that feeds her paranoia, that the royal family was spying on her. It gets to the point where she even thinks that they may even go as far as like literally killing her.

And she pieces us together basically from different events that start happening [00:55:00] following the death of her bodyguard Barry Mane. But also she starts to suspect that her brakes on her car had been tampered with because she has to change cars twice because the brakes seem to be kind of faulty. So it just ends up feeding into this paranoia.

Adam Cox: Yeah, I have heard about the break story. I think the thing is everyone wants to look for speculation or someone to blame or whatever it might be, for her death. And as interesting as it is to speculate, is it, I dunno, I just don't think the royal family in this day and age could go and put a hit on someone, at least the close, the actual pe people in the firm.

I dunno what they're like. They seem a lot more murky.

[NEW] Kyle: Remember, like, I mean, I understand where Diana's coming from. She is vulnerable, she is looking at certain things and she's putting things together. The media obviously find this note that she writes where she's speculating that the royal family were pot, potentially trying to kill her. That then gets used as a separate puzzle piece and put with another puzzle piece, and that gets put [00:56:00] together.

And then there's this big conspiracy theory. So a lot of it is, but yeah, this sex tape, I'm sorry to burst your bubble. But it's not really a sex tape in any way. It's on a similar part to kind of the tampon gate thing where they just make it out to be something more than it actually is. It's not an actual sex tape itself, certainly not on Diana's part.

What it actually is, is a recording of a call between Diana and a man called James, uh, Gilby. I've never heard of him before, but basically he is infatuated with her. She very much isn't. Basically they're on a call together. She is watching tv while he is very obviously trying to instigate sexy talk with her, and she is just not interested.

At some point he literally her to turn down the tv and she's like, no,

Adam Cox: so what are you wearing or what are you doing? I'm watching East Dentist

[NEW] Kyle: that is exactly it. He goes, he says things like, so what are you wearing? And she goes, uh, you know, a pink polo neck and some black pumps. And he says, you're looking [00:57:00] good. And she's like, yes. And he goes, are you? And she goes, I think so. And he goes, dead good. And she's like, yes, dead good, Adam. It is so awkward.

At one point he mentions that he hasn't had a wink in four days, and Diana's like, oh yeah, it's been raining.

Adam Cox: that I love that just really brushed it off. Change the subject. Anything. It's like when you are watching TV with your parents and there's like a sexy scene that comes on and your mom either like changes the channel or starts a conversation so you don't watch.

[NEW] Kyle: That's it. This tape is basically called the squidgy gate tape because he calls a squidgy like 30 times during this call.

Adam Cox: Squidgy.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, it's like a pet name for them.

Adam Cox: Yeah. It doesn't feel like something you should say to compliment someone.

[NEW] Kyle: No. So basically the tabloids get hold of this recording years before it comes out. They approach her and they're like, we have a tape of you and Gilby talking dirty. Obviously Diana denies it, and they say that they're gonna release it, and she's [00:58:00] freaking the F out. And so she waits and she waits, but nothing appears in the papers.

And because there's never not been an instance where even a sniff of a scandal hasn't appeared in the papers, she starts to wonder who's blocking the story. Do you know what I mean?

Adam Cox: this is my point. It's the press or the royal family does have control with some of the stories and they don't probably want that one coming out. Also, it's not really a story to be honest. There's not really a lot there. But I guess it could paint the royal family bad or that she's like doing the dirt on Charles.

They don't want that.

[NEW] Kyle: Adam from this little event, her paranoia starts to spiral to new heights. She starts to believe and maybe correctly that the royal family is involved, that they're surveilling her, manipulating the press, deciding what gets leaked and what does not, exactly as you said. So yeah, we also need to incorporate that with what we know about her, that she has a weird little sex type [00:59:00] where she is just really disinterested that it's hilarious to me.

Adam Cox: And talking about the weather. But does that mean that obviously her phones were tapped and so who tapped those phones?

[NEW] Kyle: Exactly. Yeah, a bunch of different people. News of the world maybe did it. Someone probably pays a member of the staff to go and fit the tap to it. Who knows? But it's also around about this time that she gains real confidence, like something happens that makes her realize that she isn't just a wallflower who should stand by and wait for the palace to tell her what to do.

And this all kicks off when she's on a skiing trip with Charles and some friends while they're there. There is an horrific avalanche, Adam, one of the people in their group is actually killed and he's killed while trying to save Charles. So they need to work out the logistics of getting the body back to the uk.

But Charles, at this moment in time, he's completely shaken and completely in shock. So she takes the initiative and she sorts everything out. She starts coordinating with ambassadors and digging trees, and she gets the [01:00:00] body back home. And it's at this moment that she realize, actually, do you know what?

I'm really good at this crisis management, diplomacy leadership. I can do it her whole life. She's carried this insecurity about her intelligence, but this moment proves that she has the instincts and the skills to do this. And so from here, she starts leaning deeper into her charity work, not just shaking hands and comforting people like she's now leading some of these initiatives.

She is really getting things moving and this new confidence in her also motivates her to finally tackle her bulimia head on. It actually comes in the form of an ultimatum after a friend sits her down and is like, listen, the reason you are so depressed, the reason you're so tired is because of your bulimia.

And she says, if you do not get help, I'm literally gonna go to the press. And Adam, it works. I don't think Caroline Barolo, you would've gone to the press. 'cause there, she's one of her oldest friends, but I think she was using it as a bit of tough love, guaranteed. [01:01:00] I'm almost certain of that. I could be wrong.

Andy works. She gets help. She starts seeing a doctor for the next few months, the doctor visitor. Every week he encourages her to read books about her condition. And even though she had to do all this in secrets, she found herself inwardly rejoicing as she starts turning these pages, she said like, this is me.

I'm not the only one. Adam.

Diana thought she was the only one.

Adam Cox: Really? That seems, I know maybe people didn't talk about it as much back then, or, and also she doesn't have access to other people in the same way. So how long did she have bulimia for?

[NEW] Kyle: So she's in her thirties now, so she got bulimia the week after she got engaged. That's when it started officially.

Adam Cox: So over 10 years then, is that

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. Her sister was bulimic as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was learned behavior, but it really kind of became an option for her to take after she got engaged. And Charles is like, Hmm, you're a bit chubby on your, on your side, aren't you?

Adam Cox: Oh yeah, that's right.[01:02:00]

[NEW] Kyle: So the effects of all of this mounting confidence also gives her the will to also finally confront Camilla. and this happens at a birthday party that Charles invited her to, like, she doesn't actually want to go, he just asks her mostly out of obligation. A bit like what you do as well, when you're like, oh, do you wanna go to the gym?

I'm like, oh, thanks for asking, but no thanks. And then when you don't ask, I'm like, ah, you didn't even ask.

Adam Cox: I know the whole charades that I have to go through.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, same thing here. but this time she's like, I'll be there. And at the party she notices that Charles has disappeared and so is Camilla. And she's like, Nope, not tonight. She gets up, she goes downstairs, she finds 'em both in the middle of a private intense conversation on the sofa, and she says, Charles, you need to leave.

Camilla and I need to talk. And Charles is just stunned. He is like, what do you wanna talk about? And she's like, ah, ah, ah, just ask girls.

Adam Cox: Wow. She is wearing the T trousers. Now she has transformed. Charles doesn't know what to do. Is he turned on? Is he like, are we gonna put [01:03:00] three way? There's a lot of emotions.

[NEW] Kyle: Oh my God. Is he turned dog? What a thought. So according to Diana, she tells Camilla, I know what's been going on between you and Charles for all these years, and Camilla says, you've got everything. You have all the men in the world, all in love with you. You have two beautiful children. What more could you possibly want?

And Diana says, I want my fucking husband, basically.

Adam Cox: Bitch back off.

[NEW] Kyle: And I think what's close to the truth was that she didn't actually want Charles at this moment in time. Like at this point the relationship had deteriorated far too much. But by saying this now, was just her saying what she knows, as she should have said years ago.

Adam Cox: Mm-hmm. Kind of taking back, I don't know, some control. And also to say like, I'm not stupid, like you think I was oblivious to this whole time. I mean, Camilla must've known that she'd known. She knows that. She knows. She knows right.

[NEW] Kyle: She doesn't know that we know that. She knows that we know. So like you said, this moment was her taking back a bit of power, but it's after all of this, the [01:04:00] building paranoia, the growing self-confidence, getting her bulimia under control, that she sort of realizes that if she's going to leave Charles, then she needs to repair for it to get really ugly.

She's not just up against a bad marriage, she's up against the press. She's up against the palace, the institution, whatever we wanna call it. So if there's going to be a war of public opinion, she needs to get her side documented and she needs to do that fast, clearly, thoughtfully, but most importantly on her own terms. So Diana starts looking for a journalist, someone that she can trusts, and finally she lands on a guy called Andrew Morton.

Adam Cox: And hence why we now know all this.

[NEW] Kyle: Yes, mostly because he's written really glowing books about her before, but also because he's been really critical of Charles in those books and in those writings. So they meet up and following this, Diana starts sneaking him tapes with her recorded memoir on them basically.

And eventually in 90 92, the book is published, which could not have [01:05:00] come at a worse time because 90 92 is a terrible year for the Royal family. A, it's the year that Prince, Andrew and Fergie are basically getting divorced and Fergie's in the process of being unofficially exiled from the royal family.

Princess Anne is divorcing her husband, and there are rumors swirling that she's actually having an affair with Camilla's husband Andrew Parker Balls. So it's very incestuous, but also 1992 is a terrible year for Diana personally. It's because this is also the year that her father dies, and she's absolutely.

Devastated. The fallout from this means that she has to deal with rain legs, who apparently on the day that her dad died, they kick her out out of the al four estates out of the home that she's known for all of these years.

Adam Cox: Wow, that seems quite harsh. Like, okay, you didn't get on with her, but on the day that he died,

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, they basically force her to pack up all of her shit, which she does, using luggage trunks, belonging to the family. When all of the stuff is gathered at the front door, [01:06:00] they tell her those trunks belongs to the family and so they make a repack all of her stuff in bin bags, and then they throw them at the door.

Adam Cox: damn.

[NEW] Kyle: It's vicious. Adam, all around 1992 is a bad year, and with this book coming out, it's about to get a hell of a lot worse basically. One Sunday morning, Charles and Diana are hosting a weekend at high growth. Their guests are still asleep. Charles comes downstairs for breakfast. He opens the Sunday Times. He sees the headline, Diana Driven to five suicide beds by Uncaring Charles.

What he's reading is an excerpt from Andrew Morton's book, and he realizes, 'cause he's seen these types of things all the time. Right. But what he realizes based on the phrasing is that it can only mean one thing, that the details must have come from Diana herself, which means that she's been talking, which is a royal family Rule number one, you do not do that as we know.

So Charles fucking livid.

Adam Cox: Yeah, understandably. That's obviously, I mean, it's an awful headline and obviously terrible that Diana went through that, but [01:07:00] yeah, you can understand like what, like being exposed like that.

[NEW] Kyle: But Adam, they've got guests. So he has to sit there, eat breakfast, sip his fucking tea, and pretend that everything is fine. And then after breakfast he's, okay, I'm gonna confront her. But then the guests, it says they all go horseback riding across the estate. So Charles has to spend the whole day just smiling through it.

Adam Cox: I bet she was like, please don't leave.

[NEW] Kyle: Eventually they leave Ika bronze, Diana, and basically it ends up with her running outta the house in tears, driving back to London. And of course, she 100% mentally denies this. But in reality, Diana was behind Andrew Morta book and the article in The Times, in fact, she specifically chose The Times because it's a paper that she knew that Charles read, but also because it was the times he'd know that it wasn't just tabloid fodder and that it would have some credibility and he would then take it seriously.

So she planned even the article and for him to find it that [01:08:00] morning.

Adam Cox: Damn that is, I mean, we said that she realized she could manage a crisis. This is her managing her crisis, I guess. But then what did she expect? Of course Charles was gonna get angry, so I don't know. How did she think that was gonna go down?

[NEW] Kyle: you're right. She knew he'd be angry. Her running out in tears is just like. Okay, it's done. The emotion is there, like they've obviously said some hurtful things, but she was fully expecting this to blow up. Don't be under any illusion. So basically the book, there are three massive bombshells. Number one, diner attempted suicide.

Number two, she has a severe eating disorder. And number three, Charles or speed sleeping with Camilla since the beginning of their marriage. And these revelations, this book is huge. The revelation that she has an eating disorder in particular is massive. We don't know this at the time, but years later in 2006, there's actually a study that shows that bulimia diagnosis in the UK jumps 60,000 cases between 1992 and 1994.

And it's because diner [01:09:00] went public with a struggle. People were like, wait, if the Princess of Wales has the same disorder that I do, maybe I can accept it. Maybe I can get help. That's the power that this woman had.

Adam Cox: And perhaps people didn't even know how to diagnose what they had. Right. I would've thought at this time,

[NEW] Kyle: Remember, Diana was sitting there as well thinking, God, I'm the only person right suffering with this. When her book comes out, it makes other people go, hang on a minute. This is me. This is me. I'm not the only one as well. So it's just incredible. Yet she didn't have the confidence to do this sooner. It's such a shame, right?

Because remember, same time, she's also just a person with flaws and all these different things. So basically this book being published means that there is now no hope for reconciliation between Diana and Charles. And so the next day, Diana and Charles, they go visit the Queen and Prince Philip, and they request permission to formally separate.

There, of course, is a lot of back and forth, but in the end, the Queen tells him, listen, just wait six more months. Let everything cool down and [01:10:00] then we can reevaluate. But Prince Philip, he ends up getting really nasty. He starts writing her letters in one of the first letters, he literally says. Can you honestly look into your heart and say that Charles's relationship with Camilla has nothing to do with your behavior during the marriage.

Adam Cox: Wow. I mean. Probably, yeah, Charles did go to Twila because he wasn't enjoying what was going on. It's probably an element of that, but I don't think we can say that's because of Diana.

[NEW] Kyle: You've gotta think how it started. Right? It started with them together and they had no intention of not being together.

Adam Cox: yeah. He didn't start cheating on her because of Diana.

[NEW] Kyle: Yes, exactly. He also reminds her that

Charles did cut ties with Camilla in the early years of their marriage, and that Diana never showed enough gratitude for that. Basically, you didn't thank your husband for not cheating on you

Adam Cox: Yeah. I feel like you, you don't need to say that. That should just be a, you know,

taken a given. Exactly.

[NEW] Kyle: So they have this [01:11:00] big back and forth. He eventually threatens her and says. If you keep pushing to leave this marriage, I will release tapes proving that you had an affair,

Adam Cox: So this is him admitting that they do know everything that happened with those tapes.

[NEW] Kyle: Uhhuh. So Diana writes back and essentially is like, fuck you. I'm not to blame for the breakdown of my marriage, but also him mentioning the sex tape confirms something in her that the royal family had been spying on her, or at least had been involved in some way. So the question is, did Prince Philip block squidgy gate tape from being released?

If so, why

Adam Cox: Optics again.

[NEW] Kyle: optics or maybe to use it against her, because remember the tape comes out eventually, but it only comes out after Charles's sex tape comes out. So who released Squidgy Gates if it wasn't to draw attention away from the fact that Charles

Adam Cox: I see.

[NEW] Kyle: did tab gates? So, yeah.

Adam Cox: So they kept that one in the bag ready to blackmail.

[NEW] Kyle: Basically [01:12:00] sounds like it doesn't it. So they agree to wait six more months. They're not gonna try Adam. This is a sort of already a done deal in their eyes. They're basically just running out the clock. So they get busy negotiating the logistics of how they are going to orchestrate their lives from here on, it's mostly around the kids.

Diana literally has this vision that when they separate or divorce, that she will leave the country with William and Harry. She seriously wonders if she can relocate them to South Africa because that's where her brother lives. But what she doesn't realize is that there are specific British laws that apply only to the royal family.

And because William and Harry are the heirs to the literal throne, it is literally illegal for her to have sole custody of them, let alone take the boys out in the country. So it's a huge issue. So much so that the palace get lawyered up and plus the Prime Minister has to get involved as well. So taking the kids out of the country, unfortunately is a no-go because essentially they belong to the Crown.

Adam Cox: That's so [01:13:00] weird.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, it is bizarre. Eventually, 90 92, they do formally separate. Diana gets to live at Kenston Palace. She retains access to the apartments in St. James' Palace. Charles will get to live at High Grove and Clarence House, and so for the first time in years, Diana is literally free and everything about her life is reinvented.

She remodels her apartment feeds in complete control of her diet and her social life. She literally becomes Adam, a soccer mom. If you can imagine a soccer mom, Andrew Mors writes on every chair where silk cushions embroidered with humorous slogans like, good girls go to heaven and bad girls go everywhere.

Adam Cox: Oh no. Is this what she had in her house?

[NEW] Kyle: That's it.

Adam Cox: Yeah. See if I see that in someone's house, I'm like, yeah. Be warned.

[NEW] Kyle: One thing she does is she decorates a bathroom with wallpaper that has political cartoons on it, or mocking Prince Charles.

Adam Cox: Really, you always want something humorous in the bathroom. So I like that.

[NEW] Kyle: She also starts repairing old [01:14:00] relationships with friends and family. She even reconnects with rain. Langs, the old lady that she pushed down the stairs. I read that when Diana first reached out to Rain. Rain was so terrified that when they met up for lunch, she brought someone with her for protection. She, she thought it was a trap basically that Diana was gonna jump her a punch her.

Adam Cox: Was she like, I'll only eat at a restaurant as long as they have no stairs or steps

[NEW] Kyle: Yes.

Adam Cox: like wheelchair access only.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, basically the end. Diana has this realization that Rain also really loved her father, and when he died, they both lost someone that they really loved. It's also random this time that Charles and committed sex tape that gets leaked to the media. It's really bad for his reputation. And so I think because of that, the palace aside, as we we've said already, to release Diana's sex safe, just to try and draw attention away from his.

If that's not the case, then I think this is what they were hoping it would do because any news about Diana always seems to kind of trump anything that he does. But not this time though, [01:15:00] like the public, they're really pissed. But here's the thing, Charles' Tape, which is basically about them talking about whose house that they're gonna be having sex.

in in the next couple weeks, Diana realizes that for their entire marriage, there had been some very, very close mutual friends of theirs who had been facilitating their affair behind their back, and so she feels deeply betrayed by these people that she thought were their friends.

Adam Cox: Yeah. Like that's, that's horrible. Especially if she thought she was close to the wife or whatever it was, knowing that, oh, you didn't care about me then.

[NEW] Kyle: Also around this time, because she's no longer actively involved in the royal family, her public schedule is pulled back massively. She suddenly has all this extra time in her hands. She starts kind of building a fairly normal, easygoing life. She stays in at night, she watches tv. She eats beans on toast.

When she has the boys, she takes them to outings, to the zoo and things like that. But it also means she's excluded from family events involving the boys like Christmas. So every year, [01:16:00] the Royals, they go up to Sandringham. They say that she can visit on Christmas Eve, but she has to leave before anyone wakes up on Christmas morning.

And so their very first year, she says she cries all the way driving back down to London.

Adam Cox: Yeah. To know that you need to be out of the house before they wake up. It doesn't feel nice.

[NEW] Kyle: Okay, so Diana has all this extra time in her hands. Adam, what is she gonna do?

Adam Cox: While she's gonna take up pottery, uh, maybe some yoga, um, maybe help out at the local church. I don't know.

[NEW] Kyle: Adam, she is gonna go a bit psycho and I'm absolutely living for it.

Adam Cox: More so than already.

[NEW] Kyle: yeah, yeah, yeah. This, this gets embarrassing. So she starts up an affair with a guy called Oliver Hore, is how I'm gonna pronounce it. H-O-A-R-E. And basically he's a mutual friend of hers and Charles, and he actually helped with the negotiations during the separation.

Like Diana will be like, Oliver, go tell Charles that I want the, the arm line, the primary bedroom, and then Charles will be like, Oliver, tell Diana that she can have the armoire, but not the knobs. They belongs to [01:17:00] my great grandmother, Mary Tech, or whatever. So that kind of facilitation. Anyway, they fall in love, but Oliver is married.

The issue is, is that all of his wealth comes from his wife. Like he owns a gallery, but it's completely funded by her. Without her, he literally has nothing. So there is no way that he's ever actually going to leave his wife. But Diana, on the other hand, she's convinced that he's the one, they end up renting a little flat in Pimlico to have sex in.

Eventually though, his wife, she finds out and she's like, Oliver, I will forgive you. You can keep your gallery, but you have to cut Diana off, not just romantically, like not even as phones. So he ends things with Diana and almost immediately Oliver's wife starts receiving these really weird phone calls.

At first it's just one or two, but within weeks it's literally dozens a day. And all she hears when she picks up the phone is just someone on the other end just breathing, and then you'll just hear a click as a hangup. Adam, it's creepiest. Fuck. Oliver's wife gets really freaked out. She calls Scotland [01:18:00] Yard.

They investigate and they discover that most of the calls are coming from Ken in the palace.

Adam Cox: They definitely did not expect that. Probably did

[NEW] Kyle: No, they probably double check. They're like, just check that again. I don't think that's true and it, it's so embarrassing. Apparently sometimes Diana would even put on a wig and then call from a payphone down the street.

Adam Cox: Amazing. Amazing.

[NEW] Kyle: This is one of my favorite things that I've learned about Princess Diana and I respect her.

Adam Cox: Just the thought that she could get. Did she not like dial 1, 4, 1? Isn't there like a way you can make sure that's not traceable?

[NEW] Kyle: Lemme know if that even existed bef

Adam Cox: True. And to be fair, probably like the police, they can see behind that,

[NEW] Kyle: So somehow the story leaks and her defense is, I don't even know how to use a parking meter, let alone a phone box.

Adam Cox: oh, come on.

[NEW] Kyle: You are not Prince King Charles. You know how to use a damn phone.

Adam Cox: Yeah. You're not princess anymore. We know you make your own dinner.

[NEW] Kyle: So she doubles down, right? She'll arrange to meet with a journalist as friends off the [01:19:00] record, knowing that they'll probably end up talking to their own network of other journalists. And that way her defense will end up leaking, but it won't look like she's done it pre meditatively. Do you know what I mean?

So at the lunch she'll casually be like, oh God, did you hear about that stupid story that I, princess Diana Princess of Wales was making nuisance phone calls to like come some random woman, and then she'll whip out her diary and be like, couldn't it be me because I was at X event that night? And like those entries are clearly added in after the fact because when this eventually does actually circulate other reporters, they check and they see that she wasn't even at that event that night.

Adam Cox: Come on, Diana.

[NEW] Kyle: so embarrassing and iconic at the same time, and I love it. This is where that reputation as someone who manipulates the press, really sets in. Like my mom always said that about her. And now I sort of see why Diana tries to get ahead of these scandals when they break. And basically it's a way to kind of reframe them [01:20:00] to her benefits. This is literally what she's doing with the Andrew Morton book and also what she did with the famous Martin Brashear interview. And I know I framed that in this kind of nefarious way, but that's not my intention because the way that I see it, as I said in the previous episode, is that she's just someone who's been relentlessly hounded by the press for her entire adult life.

So I'd say it's less about her making waves and more about her learning to just ride those waves. Do you know what I mean? And I can respect that. I don't see that as a negative.

Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess she's always had to put on an act or kind of, I dunno, perceive or be, be a certain way. And so. I kind of, I'm, I'm not mad at her for doing it, put it that way.

[NEW] Kyle: Also anyone faced with a story this fucking embarrassing, can you blame them for wanting to get ahead of it? This is her surviving, basically. So this songs call story sort of kicks off a new wave of the press coming after her. The Squidge Gate tapes are released, like I said before, one paper even kind of sets up a hotline where people can call and listen [01:21:00] to the recording for

Adam Cox: Oh no,

[NEW] Kyle: minute outta me.

The gross

Adam Cox: that's extortion back then.

[NEW] Kyle: is. This, but this latest wave is different to the others, and it's because she now revolts, because now she's not an official royal. She has nothing to lose, so there's no incentive for her to play nice. It all starts in 1994 when a man who goes to her gym installs a hidden camera in the ceiling and secretly photographs of working out.

I have to say, she looks fucking incredible. The photos look like they are from a photo shoot, not from some dodgy 1990s kind of CCTV camera.

Adam Cox: She knew. She knew what was going on. She was like, I'm gonna dress up today.

[NEW] Kyle: Honestly, she didn't. So basically he goes and sells them to the tabloids. They publish a nine page spread showing all the pictures. She's furious, and she goes and sues the guy who did it. And eventually they sell out of court. But this is the moment that she starts calling the press out for infringing on her privacy and writing bullshit stories about her.

She's way more aggressive with photographers who [01:22:00] hound her in public. She refuses to stop for photographs and she just basically wants to be left alone. But Adam, this backfires massively because every time she reacts, she gives the press a juicy photo, which keeps escalating in physical value that they can sell it for.

And so the paparazzi start goading her. For a reaction, they start calling her a bitch. One Spanish photographer shouts at her. Why don't you put your head up and start acting like a fucking princess? It all explodes. When she's at like a Jurassic Park premier, the press is screaming at her calling horrible things, and she just yells back, why don't you go and rape somebody else?

You're making my life hell. And so the next day, it's all over the papers. One of them shows a cartoon of Diana as a giant T-Rex, towering over the photographers with a caption saying, oh wow, mom, you're better than the movie. It's just terrible.

So in December, 1993, she announces that she's resigning from public life, which basically means [01:23:00] nothing.

Unfortunately, she's one of the most famous women in the world, so there's no stepping away from this. All it means is that she's gonna be cutting her charity work down from like a hundred organizations to just five. At an event at the Serpentine Gallery, she's chatting to Jeremy Irons who tells her that he's taking year off acting and she just smiles and she says, you know what?

So am I. But her cutting back in this way just means that she can really focus in on just a handful of those charities. Like she is now looking to step into more of an ambassador role. So this gives her the capacity to do that and be more impactful. But we now have to talk about Adam, essentially the three main events, their final result in the Queen Green Lighting, Charles and Diana's divorce.

Do you know what these might be by any chance?

Adam Cox: I don't think I do. I'm guessing probably some more controversy and drama and like bad press, but I mean, there's been so much already. What was like the final straw for the queen to go? Fine. Just get divorced.

[NEW] Kyle: I think that you're gonna, two of these things, [01:24:00] you're not gonna know the final thing. So basically. The first is when Diana gets wind that Charles is planning on releasing a documentary where he is going to try and get his side of the story out there, just like Diana did with the Andrew Morton book.

Ever since the Andrew Morton book came out, approval ratings for the royal family have taken a huge hit, and Charles's approval rating had plummeted to just 4%. Right? The documentary is basically going to air on the BBC. It's a huge PR campaign that's behind it, and it's supposed to humanize him. It's gonna give him a bit of a rebrand.

It's gonna make him a bit more relatable. Spoiler alert, it does not. First off, it's excruciatingly boring, and all he talks about is architecture and gardening. It's the dumbest thing I've ever watched in my life.

Adam Cox: It's like going on a date with Charles.

[NEW] Kyle: Yes. The only real revelation that comes out of this documentary is that he finally admits having an affair with committed during their marriage.

So the night the documentary is supposed to air Diana. Is meant to be a telling an event at [01:25:00] the Serpentine Gallery, but she originally declines the RSBP. When she hears the documentary is coming out, she decides that she's going to go, knowing that if she does, she'll dominate the headlines the next day.

So at the last minute, she shows up at the Serpentine Gallery wearing what we now know as the revenge dress.

Adam Cox: Uh, yes, of course.

[NEW] Kyle: So basically, as our listeners may not know, this is that little black dress where she just looks incredible. I think you everyone can agree she's wearing that kind of blue sapphire sort of heart of the ocean pearl choker necklace.

It's just gorgeous. She arrives the paparazzi yo mental and the next morning, the front pages are not talking about Charles's documentary. They're instead plastered with photos of Diana stepping out of that limo looking like a million bucks. And so Diana has ruined Charles's and the Royal family's little PR move, and they're basically pissed, and that is the first [01:26:00] big thing.

Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess they're like, is this always gonna happen, that she's gonna outshine us? Um, and so I guess they're like, well, if, if, if we don't give her what she wants, we're always gonna face this issue. Right.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. The second thing that leads the queen to find a green night, the divorce comes in 1995. Basically, Diana agrees to do a solo interview with Panorama and a journalist. You might know Martin Bashir.

Adam Cox: Yeah, so this is the famous interview where she actually even says those quotes like, oh, there were three of the marriage. Um, and she revealed all this dirt, which obviously that's the most un royal thing you could be doing, is giving this televised interview to this on, on the news.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, basically that's where she utters those famous words about. There have been three people in this marriage, and that's a huge revelation. I mean, it wasn't really a huge revelation to certain people. Like if you were maybe a, uh, daily mail reader, maybe you would've known it if you were a telegraph reader.

Maybe you could have read between the lines. But this is where [01:27:00] it's properly confirmed, right? So if you're an American listener, you might remember Martin Beshe from that famous interview that he did with Michael Jackson at his ranch, I think never, never Land where he's like in the tree, in the red shirt.

So this interview airs on the 20th of November, and the reason she's doing it is because essentially she's trying to reclaim control over her public image. This is after the whole crank call scandal and the T-Rex incident. But also she knows that if a divorce is ever finalized, the royal family will likely slap a gag order on her, and that means that she'll never get a chance to tell her actual side of the. She already knows Martin Bushy by reputation. In fact, he'd been trying to land an interview with her for like years, but the answer would always just be no. She only agrees when Martin shows her checks given to members of her own staff that prove that they've been leaking stories to the news, the world for years.

Remember, she's already paranoid at this point, so this is really persuasive for her, [01:28:00] right?

Adam Cox: Yeah. Didn't we find out later that those checks, they were kind of forged or they misled to what Diana did? Like she did this interview off the back of one. Okay. She wants to say her, you know, her own piece and two, yeah. She felt like she was being spied on. So a, a lot this information could, could get out so that this is her getting ahead of that.

But had this not been forged all those documents, she might have done it differently. And I think this is something that Harry has been quite vocal about saying, like, the things that were done to manipulate his mother.

[NEW] Kyle: 100% Adam. Yeah, she probably wouldn't have done this interview had she not seen those checks and seen that evidence. So at this moment in time, she does not know, and that won't come out for years. Having the BBC's graphic design department, that's taxpayer money, mock those checks up. And so he calculating Lee is playing off of her paranoia and it works, and so she agrees to this interview, but.

The entire interview has to be kept completely secret, not just from the Royal family, [01:29:00] but from the BBC itself. Did you know that?

Adam Cox: I think I'm trying to re, because I've watched The Crown. I think they did cover that in the Crown, actually.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. And it's because the chairman of the BBC at the time is a guy called, which I love this name. I'll never not love this name. And we are going call our son this name. His name is Mama Duke.

Adam Cox: Machu, do you know that that name kind of comes up quite often. It feels American though.

[NEW] Kyle: No, I think it's very like Victorian, south African. So his name is Mama Ju Hussey and he's basically deeply connected with Royals. He has been known to flat out kill royal stories before. So. This has to all happen in total secrecy. Not even Diana's own staff know that this is in the works. And in the interview, Diana openly talks about the collapses of her marriage.

She finally admits to the affair with James Stewart. She says she doubts that she will ever be queen. Instead, saying that she hopes one day to be the queen of the people's hearts. And she talks openly about her bulimia, her mental health. But famously she says the words, there [01:30:00] were three of us in this marriage, so was a bit crowded.

And Adam, when the interview airs, it's watched by over 20 million people, which at the time is the most watched documentary interview in British television history.

Adam Cox: Yeah, it was kind of groundbreaking to have this kind of interview from a royal, like all the scandal it revealed, well, you know, or at least confirmed a lot of the things that people had seen in the press.

[NEW] Kyle: And it is a really incredible interview, knowing everything that we know about her and about what she's been through. It's this moment where you see that she's basically Adam. Completely just let go of all the shame in a really incredibly calm, composed, even regal way. Like the public gets this overwhelming sense of honesty and vulnerability from her.

She could've easily just gone on a rampage. Had she done that, that would've lost her credibility. But she was so demure about this. But in the eyes of the royals, Adam, they are completely horrified. And so that wedge is just [01:31:00] jimmied in even further. And that is the second big thing that happens now. The final straw, the thing that finally breaks the camel's back and pushes the queen to finally green light the divorce involves a woman called Tiggy.

Do you know who she is?

Adam Cox: So this is the thing that I probably won't know, right?

Is that right? I think so. Yeah.

Yeah, I dunno about this. I thought it was the interview that would've been the final nail.

[NEW] Kyle: Basically Tiggy is William and Harry's nanny, and she sort of sparks this jealous streak in Diana because she's constantly been photographed with the boys. They're always out kind of horseback riding. They're snapped together, laughing and playing. Diana hates this. She's really attached to her voice, but she's also convinced that Tiggy is trying to marry Charles.

So she puts in a formal request to the palace to outline Tiggy duties and insist on being consulted about anything. She does involving the boys. But then in 1995, a rumor starts swirling that Tiggy has gotten herself pregnant with Charles's baby. And so he has arranged for [01:32:00] her to have an abortion that December.

Diana is attending a Christmas party, and she knows that Tiggy is going to be there. Diana casually walks up to her and says, Tiggy, good to see you, darling. So sorry to hear about the baby. Tiggy bursts into tears. She runs out of the room. Everyone turns around to see what's happened. They're all mortified by Diana's insensitivity because out of this could be true.

And so they're wondering what kind of person does this? Also for the palace. When the palace finds out, it's a huge crisis. And so they try to kind of contain the rumor. They, they're aware of the rumor, but now because Diana's physically uttered these words, they're scared, is going to leak outside the confines of the physical royal social circle, which is not good for Charles and the royal family.

And so they seriously consider filing for libel against Diana. Yeah. Turns out Adam, the rumor isn't even true. [01:33:00] And it was Diana who started it.

Adam Cox: Oh no. So why did, so she started it to what? Just kind of get her own back. Why did she do it?

[NEW] Kyle: No idea what she's thinking. No idea. Maybe she just wants tarnished Charles's reputation. Who knows? They're in this cat fight where they're just constantly going at each other. This is one of them.

Adam Cox: and did. Was she actually pregnant? Was that true or was

[NEW] Kyle: I don't think so. There's no evidence of it. Uh, we're, we know that it was dinosaur, the rumor, so

Adam Cox: Hmm.

Okay.

[NEW] Kyle: So eventually the Queen is like, this is enough. Let's get this woman out of our lives. And so they start the divorce proceedings. They have to consider money, property custody. And weirdly, the biggest sticking point is can Diana keep her title as her Royal Highness?

And from the very beginning, Diana's fully set on this becoming very messy. She's like, I want the money. I want the house. I'm taking the kids. I'm gonna take them for everything that they've got. But the queen is really chill. She's like, you want the money? Sure have the money. You want the property? Sure [01:34:00] have the property.

Obviously you can't have the kids full time, but you are their mother. And we are not really gonna put on any real restrictions on custody, except you cannot take the boys out the country. So like the Queen is not a monster, right? But she's adamant about one thing, the title. They instead say, you can be known as Diana comma Princess of Wales.

Adam Cox: Is that not just the same thing? What, what's the importance of that comma?

[NEW] Kyle: Exactly. It's dumb like Diana's like, fine, whatever. None of this actually means anything anyway. Not to a regular member of the public. They still see me as Princess Diana, right? So in the end, she receives a 17 million pound lump sum, plus 400,000 pounds a year for office expenses. Her staff remain on the royal payroll and her official name becomes Diana Princess of Wales.

And so the divorce is eventually finalized on the 15th of July, 1996. And from that point, it is [01:35:00] almost exactly one year until the day that she dies.

Adam Cox: Wow. So she only really gets that kind of freedom. Yeah, really late in the game.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah, it's so sad. And Adam, that is a story of Princess Diana and the breakdown of her marriage.

Adam Cox: Yeah. I mean, it is messy and there's some things that I think Diana did do, which I think we can all go, yeah, that probably wasn't smart, that wasn't cool. And, but I think if we perhaps knew the turmoil and the trouble and all the issues that she had, you, you'd probably kind of understand it a bit more.

We can only speculate from the outside just maybe how tough it was based on what she said. And I don't think we ever hear the, the royal side. Like that's what she was like. I'm not saying that, you know, she wasn't justified in what she was doing, but clearly she did do things that, you know, intentionally rubbed them up the wrong, wrong way.

[NEW] Kyle: Correct. I mean there is clear evidence that she's done some questionable weird [01:36:00] things. I don't hate her for it, but you are in an environment where like things that you do and say do matter. So when she has made these kind of. Muck up. I guess it probably doesn't go down well. We dunno what kind of person she was behind.

Closed doors either. But to the public, she can't do any wrong. I think she is just real. She's raw, she's graceful, she is messy. She's everything. She's everything. She's a human being That I just think is really special.

Adam Cox: Exactly. She's human. I think that's the main thing. Like she's flawed, but she's human and, and you know, she's a good mother. She did a lot of good, like, you know, no one's perfect.

[NEW] Kyle: Yeah. So Adam, in the next episode, we're actually heading into the final chapter of Diana's life. We are gonna meet Dirty Elfa. We are gonna talk about what happened in the lead up to that night in Paris on the 31st of August, 1997. And we are going to look at some of the conspiracy theories and the reactions that [01:37:00] came out of it.

It's going to be a tough one, but it's also gonna be an interesting one because for the first time we actually see a glimmer of who Diana could have been as a human being outside of the royal palace, basically.

Adam Cox: When she hasn't got to deal with all, all of that pompous this.

[NEW] Kyle: And it's exciting because A, she has one last love affair and yeah, I'm living for it and essentially she dies happy. But yeah. Any last words before we run the alto for this week, Adam?

Adam Cox: No, I think, I think that's it.

[NEW] Kyle: So guys, that brings us to the end of another fascinating foray into the compendium and assembly of fascinating things. We hope you enjoy the ride as much as we did

Adam Cox: If today's episode sparks your curiosity, then please do us a favor and follow us on your favorite podcast app. It truly makes a world of difference and helps more people like you discover the show.

[NEW] Kyle: and for our dedicated freaks out there. Please don't forget that next week's episode is already waiting for you on our Patreon and is completely free to access.

Adam Cox: And if you want even more, then join our [01:38:00] certified Freaks Tier to unlock the entire Archive Dub to exclusive content and get a sneak peek at what's coming next. We'd love for you to join our growing community.

[NEW] Kyle: drop new episodes every Tuesday and until then, remember, even in a palace full of protocol, the loudest truths come from the people they try to silence. We'll see you next week.

Adam Cox: See you then.