Elizabeth Smart: Kidnapped by a Prophet

[00:01:15] Kyle Risi: Welcome to the Compendium and Assembly of Fascinating things, a weekly variety podcasts that gives you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering.

[00:01:24] Adam Cox: Every week we explore a story from the darker corners of true crime, the hidden gems of history and the jaw [00:01:30] dropping deeds of extraordinary people.

[00:01:31] Kyle Risi: I'm Kyle Reese, your ringmaster for this week's episode.

[00:01:35] Adam Cox: And I'm Adam Cox, the beard oil maker for the bearded lady.

[00:01:39] Kyle Risi: Gross. Do I dare ask what the beard oil is made from? Olive oil.

[00:01:45] Adam Cox: Some lard. Gross. I make sure her, her beard is on point.

[00:01:49] Kyle Risi: yeah. What are your KPIs on that?

[00:01:51] Adam Cox: A big, shiny beard. As long as it's big and shiny. That's all that matters. Pretty much.

[00:01:55] Kyle Risi: I get it.

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[00:02:56] Kyle Risi: Adam, that's enough of the housekeeping because [00:03:00] today on the compendium, we are diving into an assembly of strangers at the door and the long shadow that they leave behind.

[00:03:09] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm. Okay. That sounds mysterious.

[00:03:12] Kyle Risi: It's quite cryptic this week, isn't it?

[00:03:14] Adam Cox: I think most weeks are cryptic. I, Most of them. I don't care and even by the end, I'm not, still not sure about that. God,

[00:03:19] Kyle Risi: Adam. June, 2002 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart went to sleep in the bedroom she shares with her 9-year-old sister. But by [00:03:30] morning, Elizabeth had vanished Adam.

[00:03:33] she had been taken in the middle of the night by a complete stranger.

[00:03:37] Adam Cox: Oh, so this is a bit like a Madeleine McCann kind of situation,

[00:03:40] Kyle Risi: similar yes. But Adam, by the next day, news of her disappearance exploded into a national headline. And the burning question was, how could this even happen here in a neighborhood renowned for its safety and firmly embedded inside a deeply devout Mormon community?

[00:03:58] [00:04:00] Immediately, as it always happens, when a blonde white girl disappears, an investigation erupted to try and find Elizabeth before she became yet another grim statistic faced by so many kidnapped children in the USA.

[00:04:13] When it came to the investigation, detectives had almost nothing to go on. The days turned into weeks, which turned into months, and progress stalled to an almost complete halt. And with that, any hope of potentially finding Elizabeth alive?

[00:04:29] And [00:04:30] as always, it wasn't only because LEED within it was inter-jurisdictional politics between the different departments that played this entire investigation from the start, the police were repeatedly leaning into their own biases dismissing key bits of information that could potentially help them find Elizabeth very quickly.

[00:04:48] The result was dozens of false starts, red herrings, and loads of twists in the story. It got to the point where Elizabeth's parents found themselves trapped in this almost impossible position [00:05:00] where they were convinced that the police were ignoring vital leads in this case, and as a result, they decided to deploy their own resources in trying to find their own daughter.

[00:05:10] Only to be told by the same investigators, not to further rupturing that relationship between them,

[00:05:18] Adam Cox: but if they're not getting the answers from the police or whatever, of course you're gonna take the matters into your own hands to a degree.

[00:05:23] Kyle Risi: Exactly. You wanna be able to feel like you are at least doing something to help. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Rather than just like relying on the [00:05:30] police. Eventually the smarts took a desperate gamble, one that they knew would either bring Elizabeth home at last or would make things far, far worse.

[00:05:41] Adam, today on the Compendium, I'm gonna be telling you about the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart. Have you heard of this before?

[00:05:49] Adam Cox: I've never heard of this.

[00:05:50] Kyle Risi: Was quite a big story, obviously back in the early two thousands, but it is a story that has pretty much continued until like as late as 2018.

[00:05:59] Adam Cox: [00:06:00] really what as in like an ongoing saga in development?

[00:06:02] Kyle Risi: Yes. And obviously we'll go into exactly what those were later on. 'cause I don't wanna give anything away. But today we are gonna retrace the night that Elizabeth disappeared from her bedroom she shared with her nine-year-old sister.

[00:06:16] We'll dig into why the investigation stalled in the most catastrophic way, but we'll also get to the moment everything in this case, shifted.

[00:06:25] The gamble that Elizabeth's parents took. That was sparked Adam by a [00:06:30] single tiny but crucial memory from Elizabeth's sister months after she was first taken.

[00:06:36] Wow. So it's a wild one today.

[00:06:38] Adam Cox: Okay. Interested? I'm buckled in. I'm ready.

[00:06:41] Kyle Risi: So the smart family, they lived in one of Salt Lake City's most prominent neighborhoods. Federal Heights. Mm. They call it. Mm-hmm just think big houses.

[00:06:49] Perfectly manicured lawns. It's the kind of place that feels isolated and safe. It's a community where people didn't lock their doors really because it just doesn't really occur to them that they needed to. And the reason [00:07:00] was this was a deeply devout Mormon community. Do you know much about Mormonism?

[00:07:03] Adam Cox: Just the musical. Okay. Which I'm not sure is the best thing to go off.

[00:07:07] Kyle Risi: Absolutely not.

[00:07:08] Adam Cox: Just a bit of creative license. I'm sure.

[00:07:10] Kyle Risi: So the smart as a family, they were big Adam. They consisted of obviously two parents, Ed and Lois Smart and their six kids.

[00:07:18] Ed worked as a real estate and mortgage broker, and alongside this, the Smarts had been spending the last six or seven years renovating their massively beautiful home in Federal Heights to like the highest [00:07:30] standards. And the intention was to sell it at the end of it.

[00:07:32] The matriarch of the household, however, was Lois Smart, who ran the home through the chaos of the construction and the day-to-day lives of raising their six kids.

[00:07:42] And just like the community they belong to the Smarts. Were devout Mormons as well. They were well-respected cogs within the community, and their lives revolved around a very clear set of values from family morality and strict rules surrounding things like sex and alcohol, even caffeine. They [00:08:00] abstain from actually drinking.

[00:08:01] Adam Cox: Can they drink decaf so they can still enjoy coffee, but.

[00:08:04] Kyle Risi: I think, do you know what? There might be a little bit of caffeine in decaf.

[00:08:07] Adam Cox: So they still wouldn't be able to have that.

[00:08:09] Kyle Risi: I dunno, I'm not a woman. Okay.

[00:08:12] And here's the thing. How you adhere to these values wasn't just an expectation, something that directly reflected on you personally. Mm-hmm.

[00:08:19] Now, the smart children included Elizabeth, she was the second oldest in the family. She was by all accounts shy, she was quiet, very well-mannered. She was also [00:08:30] incredibly gifted as a harp player. Good enough actually to land an opportunity to perform during the 2002 Paralympic games.

[00:08:39] Oh wow. What a gig. Huh?

[00:08:40] Amongst Elizabeth's other siblings included her 9-year-old sister, Mary Catherine and her four brothers, 3-year-old William, 7-year-old Edward Jr. 12-year-old Andrew, and 16-year-old Charles.

[00:08:54] Adam Cox: That sounds like, um, the royal family, Charles, Edward, and Andrew.

[00:08:58] You are fucking kidding. Me and [00:09:00] Elizabeth. Oh, do you reckon? That's why, I dunno. What was the other, what was the other, Mary Catherine I was not, and then

[00:09:05] Kyle Risi: no.

[00:09:06] Adam Cox: Oh, okay.

[00:09:06] Kyle Risi: But Mary almost sounds like. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. Maryanne always What is wrong with me?

[00:09:15] Adam Cox: Yeah, maybe they just didn't like Anne.

[00:09:17] Kyle Risi: There's two episodes that we've done where there's been like an overlap between the royal family. Remember Charles and Diane Ingram from the Who Wants To Be a Millionaire Scandal.

[00:09:24] Adam Cox: Could have just been a, a weird ky dink.

[00:09:26] Kyle Risi: I wonder if they know this. I wanna write to them and say, by the [00:09:30] way,

[00:09:30] Adam Cox: I mean, go ahead.

[00:09:32] Kyle Risi: Okay, so our story starts on the evening of the 4th of June, 2002. It's just another Tuesday night, except tonight everything revolved around Elizabeth trying to persuade her parents to let her go on holiday with her friend's, family. Okay. You've been in those situations, right?

[00:09:46] It's the bargaining, right? It's the begging. Ed and Lewis aren't uncomfortable with the idea of letting her go, but Elizabeth, like I said, she's bargaining with him. Like she is literally haggling in a Moroccan souk, which, if you're British, we're not [00:10:00] very good at it.

[00:10:00] Adam Cox: I, I try and barter.

[00:10:02] Kyle Risi: We did, but we weren't very good at it.

[00:10:03] Adam Cox: No, I get, yeah. What happened? I remember like I couldn't look them in the eye or something.

[00:10:09] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's it. You can't look, 'cause you don't wanna, like, I don't wanna go low because they're obviously trying to make a living.

[00:10:14] Right.

[00:10:14] Adam Cox: And you're supposed to not say, oh, that's a good deal. You're supposed to go, oh I've seen better elsewhere. And all that sort stuff. Yeah. They stop walking away. Yeah.

[00:10:19] Kyle Risi: And they go, no, no, no, no. But I think we did walk away a couple times and they just let us go because they're like, I don't want your money.

[00:10:26] Yeah. So while Elizabeth is making a case, [00:10:30] her older brother Charles, he takes this as an opportunity to tease her a little bit. Right? As older brothers do, he's saying, you're wasting your time. It's gonna be a boring trip.

[00:10:39] She turns around, she shoots back, she goes, Hey, what if that's the last words you ever say to me?

[00:10:44] Oh, foreshadowing yes.

[00:10:46] At this moment, Charles has no idea. She's right. And this is actually something that goes on to haunt him for years. Mm-hmm.

[00:10:53] After dinner Elizabeth says goodnight to her family.

[00:10:56] She heads upstairs to the bedroom that she shares with Mary Catherine, her [00:11:00] 9-year-old sister. She reads to her for a while, and after this they settle down to go to sleep.

[00:11:05] Sometime before 1:00 AM Elizabeth is woken up by the feeling of something cold on her neck and a man's dirty beard scraping across her face.

[00:11:15] Oh,

[00:11:16] as she opens her eyes, he whispers in her ear that he has a knife, and if she makes a sound, he'll not only kill her, but her entire family.

[00:11:26] Adam Cox: Okay.

[00:11:27] So first thing we, it's quite a [00:11:30] descriptive turn of events. So this must have come from Elizabeth then

[00:11:34] Kyle Risi: what are you trying to get, Adam?

[00:11:35] Adam Cox: I'm, are you trying to insinuate that she survives this? Well, either or. Like we find out what actually happened from Elizabeth being this descriptive.

[00:11:42] So that's the first thing. Mm-hmm. Clue, I guess you're giving away. And secondly, that would freak you out. Someone, oh my God, yes. Like anyone being woken up in their house by a stranger is scary.

[00:11:52] Yeah. But then the thought of a poor child.

[00:11:54] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's right. Obviously in this moment, Elizabeth's heart is racing. She's frozen in bed. She tries to [00:12:00] turn to look at him properly, but when she does, she doesn't recognize the face at all. What she does recognize is the certainty in his voice.

[00:12:06] Like her instinct in that moment is to scream, but she turns and she sees Mary Catherine asleep in the next bed and in that split second, she thinks if I scream, she could get hurt too.

[00:12:17] Right.

[00:12:18] She does what the man says and she thinks to herself that if she does that, maybe everything will be okay. She doesn't wanna risk. Mary Catherine been hurt.

[00:12:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:12:26] The man tells her to get outta bed. When she does. He begins pulling [00:12:30] her down the hallway past her brother's bedrooms and into the kitchen from there, Adam, they slip out through the back door.

[00:12:37] And Elizabeth, she's now been taken,

[00:12:39] Adam Cox: So why her and how did he get in the house without anyone else knowing?

[00:12:43] Kyle Risi: But here's the thing though, that night, the house alarm was fully enabled. Exiting through that door in the kitchen should have set the alarm off. But because of the renovations, that particular door wasn't properly connected to the alarm system.

[00:12:55] Adam Cox: So is it someone like an inside job, someone who's doing the [00:13:00] maintenance or the door?

[00:13:00] Kyle Risi: Someone who knows. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

[00:13:02] All the while Elizabeth believed that Mary Catherine slept through this entire ordeal. Only thing was Adam. She was awake the entire time.

[00:13:11] Wow.

[00:13:12] Out of fear. She made sure just to stay as still as possible. All she could do was tune her senses into what was happening in the darkness.

[00:13:20] And even though she couldn't hear him clearly, there was something about his voice that sounded very familiar.

[00:13:24] As the man was dragging Elizabeth down the hallway. Mary Catherine slipped outta bed and peeked around the [00:13:30] doorframe. It was just for a second and she could only see him from behind.

[00:13:33] But from that, what she could tell is that he was roughly the same height as her older brother Charles. He, at the time, was wearing light colored clothing, a light colored hat, and was carrying a bag that looked like a backpack, but it could also been like a duffle bag that was being worn like a backpack.

[00:13:47] Adam Cox: Right. Okay.

[00:13:48] And light colored clothing as well. That doesn't sound like a typical Robert Burglar attire.

[00:13:54] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's right. You had planned it better, right? Mm-hmm. Was this an opportunistic thing? Was he just walking by and thought, Ooh, I'm gonna [00:14:00] go kidnap the girl in there.

[00:14:01] Adam Cox: He's wearing a Hawaiian shirt or something like that?

[00:14:03] Kyle Risi: Yeah, maybe. Obviously, Mary Catherine, she was tuned in enough to know that if she made even a peep in that moment while peeking around the door, then he might come back and take her as well. So instead, she just stays frozen in her bedroom for three hours.

[00:14:18] Adam Cox: Wow.

[00:14:19] But that's a mistake. Maybe she doesn't, she's very young at that point. And also scared. Yeah. But that's the point when you go wake up your parents and there's a chance that you could, I dunno, tell the police, go catch 'em.

[00:14:28] Kyle Risi: Exactly.

[00:14:29] [00:14:30] Eventually she finds the courage to run down the hallway to her parents' room.

[00:14:33] And of course she tells 'em what happens.

[00:14:35] Ed and Lois, they jump outta bed to verify what she's saying. 'cause they think she's nine years old. She's obviously lying. Um, the first realization that this isn't a joke is when they obviously find Elizabeth's bedroom empty.

[00:14:49] Lois then runs into the kitchen and there she sees the kitchen window open someone has cut a hole through the mesh screening with a knife, Adam.

[00:14:57] So it was all true.

[00:14:59] [00:15:00] Elizabeth was gone.

[00:15:01] And so at 4:01 AM Ed dials 9 1 1 and immediately officers are dispatched to the address. Meanwhile, Lois starts making frantic phone calls to family, friends, and obviously people from their church

[00:15:14] Adam Cox: does she think that someone from the church is snuck in and burgled?

[00:15:17] No. She's not calling around going, did you, did you steal Elizabeth? Did you take my daughter?

[00:15:21] Kyle Risi: It's a, this is her support group.

[00:15:23] Adam Cox: Sure. I just, I'm just wondering. Yeah. Okay. Fine.

[00:15:27] Kyle Risi: Within minutes. The house is overrun with people who [00:15:30] just were not there in the house when Elizabeth was taken. And of course, remember we've seen this with the JonBenet Ramsey case, Where the house, that should have been an act of crime scene. It's just suddenly full with people that are there just fucking the entire crime scene up.

[00:15:43] Adam Cox: surely the police say, don't move, but it's a crime scene. Right?

[00:15:46] Kyle Risi: Well, the police aren't there at this moment in time. Right? Oh, okay. By the time they get there, there's already people in the house. Oh. And they're like literally contaminating things, picking things up, all sorts.

[00:15:53] Is not until 6:54 AM that police finally get their act together and they clear everyone out of the [00:16:00] house.

[00:16:00] To show you how badly the scene was contaminated photos that were taken later that morning by the state investigators did not match the photos that were taken by the local team after they first arrived. 'cause like things had been moved so much.

[00:16:13] Adam Cox: So basically how are you ever gonna rely on that evidence?

[00:16:16] Kyle Risi: Exactly. So it's unlikely the kidnapper touched much. But with all these people in the house, any footprints that might have been left are now definitely gone. Right? Mm-hmm. This is the first example of how this investigation had just gotten so much harder [00:16:30] at this moment in time. So early on,

[00:16:31] Adam Cox: again, this is the two thousands people should know not to touch anything.

[00:16:35] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:16:36] The cops do manage, however, to pull a partial palm print from the window frame. They also do manage to get a few fingerprints from the back of the door handle that they exited through, but also from Elizabeth's bedpost itself. Mm.

[00:16:50] But of course when they run them through the database, Adam, there are no matches at all.

[00:16:55] So next, the police, they start basically canvassing the neighborhood. They bring in [00:17:00] canine units to try and see if they can pick up on Elizabeth's scent.

[00:17:03] They do manage to track the scent into the foothills surrounding the community, which takes them like roughly half a mile away.

[00:17:10] But 450 volunteers turning up to help in this moment, the trail becomes impossible for the dogs to even hold onto.

[00:17:18] Eventually a full week passes. And police, they have nothing solid to work with, just nothing. And it largely comes down to the fact that they can't really trust the forensic [00:17:30] information that's been left in the house because it's been so contaminated.

[00:17:33] By this point. More than 8,000 people have now joined and are searching the surrounding wilderness. Neighbors they pulled together $250,000 as a reward for any information that could potentially help the police.

[00:17:45] Oh, wow.

[00:17:45] Neighbors directly across the smart house, they offer up their entire house as the operational headquarters for the cops.

[00:17:52] And by this point as well, police have now received more than 3000 tips from the public that they now have to kind of stop sorting [00:18:00] through.

[00:18:00] The police, they deploy 33 fixed wing aircraft, including helicopters and dozens of ATVs, which are basically like off-road, like little, um, four by fours. Mm-hmm. That they can kind of drive in the wilderness and yet there's still no sign of Elizabeth.

[00:18:14] But the sheer effort in mobilizing in this moment in time, 8,000 volunteers, all that money, like 33 planes being sent out into the air. That is a lot, that is mental. I don't think I've ever heard of that kind of response before for a kidnapped child. Is it their connections? I [00:18:30] don't understand.

[00:18:30] Adam Cox: Yeah. I'm sure that all plays a part because they seem like they've taken this very seriously, very quickly. But then I guess there's no chance really that she's just gone missing. They know someone's broken into the house. Oh yeah, for sure. And so perhaps they are treating it differently because of that.

[00:18:44] Kyle Risi: So where, where are the police gonna look first, Adam?

[00:18:47] Adam Cox: Well, you've already said the security or the alarm didn't go off in the kitchen. So therefore I would look at someone that knows the family. Either the people installing the alarm or close friends and family, which would know that the alarm wasn't working.

[00:18:59] Kyle Risi: So the first [00:19:00] thing that the cops do is they start looking at the smart family themselves.

[00:19:04] Adam Cox: Yeah. Always question the mother

[00:19:06] Kyle Risi: or, yeah, but also anyone connected to them with a possible motive for taking Elizabeth. They are of course, very aware that statistically most abductions are com committed by someone that the victim knows. Mm-hmm. Often within the family. So they can't ignore that.

[00:19:20] Especially with the grim reality, that in 40% of stranger abductions, the child dies. Even worse than that, in almost 90% of those cases, the child dies within [00:19:30] the first 24 hours.

[00:19:31] Adam Cox: Bloody hell.

[00:19:31] So even at this point, when they're out there looking, there's a good chance. Elizabeth hasn't made it.

[00:19:36] Kyle Risi: So every hour that they spent chasing the wrong thing is an hour that they might not potentially get back

[00:19:41] so as well as looking through the family connections, the most obvious starting point is of course Ed himself.

[00:19:47] From a business and financial standpoint, ed has his fingers in a hell of a lot of pies. And so they question whether or not any dodgy dealings in business might have led to Elizabeth's disappearance.

[00:19:57] However, Adam Ed is [00:20:00] fully cooperative. He is clearly devastated by what has happened. And so very, very quickly, the cops, they rule him out completely as a suspect. There's just no way that they believe that he would have a hand in her disappearance.

[00:20:12] Adam Cox: Okay. So he's ruled out,

[00:20:14] Kyle Risi: what about the mother then? It's not the parents. Not the parents.

[00:20:17] But what is concerning to police is the sheer scale of his business connections across real estate, his mortgage work, he also buys and sells a bunch of cars as well. And there, remember, there are dozens and dozens of contracts in companies that he has worked [00:20:30] with in terms of the renovations of his property.

[00:20:33] So maybe they think within the pool of these connections, someone might have had a reason to take elizabeth.

[00:20:38] What they do is they have Ed write down everyone he knows, basically including friends, family, employees, contractors, literally everyone. And as they're working through the list, they arrive on a single name that stands out almost immediately.

[00:20:50] His name is Richard Rei.

[00:20:53] Oh my brother's name.

[00:20:54] Adam Cox: Isn't that it? Another re I didn't, yeah. I've never even come across another rei.

[00:20:58] Kyle Risi: This one's spelled [00:21:00] R-I-C-C-I rather than RISI.

[00:21:02] Adam Cox: Okay.

[00:21:03] Kyle Risi: So Richard, basically, he's a 48-year-old handyman with a really sketchy past. He's also a heroin addict and over the years has been in and out of jail like a bunch of times for burglary related offenses.

[00:21:13] ed Mahi, a year earlier after he came, recommended by another contractor. And Ed Edwards fully aware of Richard's past. But the thing that overrides any concerns was the compassion that they felt towards people, especially after they kind of learned that Richard had lost an 8-year-old son in a car crash due to a drunk driver.

[00:21:29] [00:21:30] Oh, shit.

[00:21:30] And this is something really typical of the spots, these are those Mormon values that we talked about, and so from what they could see, Richard was just someone who was looking to turn his life around. They decide to contract him to do some carpentry work around the house, and while he's working for the Smarts, ed finds out that Richard actually doesn't have a car of his own, and so he offers to give him his old Jeep Cherokee in lieu of payment for the work that is done.

[00:21:52] The work in arrangements is all going really well until June, 2001. Lois realizes that her favorite pearl [00:22:00] bracelet, has gone missing from her jewelry box in her bedroom.

[00:22:03] They do follow reports with the police, but after this, the smarts end up narrowing the theft down to one or three contractors who were in the house at the time that they believed the bracelet, went missing, and that included Richard Reese himself.

[00:22:16] They all obviously deny stealing the bracelet, but Richard goes as far as saying that when the police came to speak to him, he volunteered to take a polygraph test, which he claims he aced.

[00:22:28] Okay.

[00:22:29] [00:22:30] This was a lie because of course, police don't go around offering polygraph tests to anyone willing to take one. This is just a theft out of a piece of jewelry.

[00:22:38] Adam Cox: Yeah. So why did he make that up?

[00:22:40] Kyle Risi: I think he's just trying to kind of like say like, I definitely didn't do this. Mm-hmm. He's lucky because Ed doesn't actually verify this, but in the end, ed cuts ties with all three contractors and just gets 'em outta their lives, yeah. Takes it on the chin almost.

[00:22:53] Adam Cox: But why? It's almost like you're lying about the fact that you're telling the truth. That doesn't compute for me in my [00:23:00] brain,

[00:23:00] Kyle Risi: the police seen Richard's name on Ed's list and his sketchy past police decide to look into his whereabouts the night that Elizabeth was taken, initially, his alibi checks out. His wife confirms that that night they were entertaining some missionaries from the church and afterwards they stayed up late to watch television.

[00:23:15] But police pick up on one detail.

[00:23:18] Around midnight, Angela, that to Richard's wife, she takes a sleeping pill, which makes the cops wonder if Richard could have slipped out of the house and kidnapped Elizabeth.

[00:23:29] Adam Cox: Okay, but [00:23:30] what's his motive? But I guess, yeah, let's, let's continue that thread.

[00:23:33] Kyle Risi: So they decide to retrace the root from Richard's house to the smarts.

[00:23:37] And it turns out that it is completely plausible that he could have slipped out of the house, driven all the way to the smarts, taken Elizabeth and been back home inches over one hour.

[00:23:49] Okay.

[00:23:49] The cops also then decide to search Richard's home where they find a very strange item. It's a wine goblet filled with sand.

[00:23:58] Now it seems innocent [00:24:00] except the goblets and the sand belong to the smart family.

[00:24:03] So. Did he steal that? He did. But also why the sand had been collected from a family trip, that the smarts went on somewhere.

[00:24:12] So it wasn't valuable in any way. It made the police question whether or not Richard stole it because it carried some personal meaning to him. That connected directly to Elizabeth.

[00:24:22] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:24:23] Kyle Risi: They also search his father-in-law's property. There they find a light colored golf cap similar in [00:24:30] color to the one that Mary Catherine had seen the kidnapper wearing. They also find a machete that the police think could have been used to cut through the window screen.

[00:24:39] Adam Cox: I thought this was gonna be like a red herring suspect, but now it seems like more and more it could be him.

[00:24:44] Kyle Risi: So for the cops, everything seems to be falling into place, richard worked for the smarts. He knew the layout of the house, and he potentially had beef with Ed and Lewis due to being accused of stealing this, this pearl bracelet.

[00:24:57] Mm-hmm. But also remember, he [00:25:00] likely knew the back door wasn't connected to the alarm system.

[00:25:02] Adam Cox: Exactly. I said it'd be someone that knew.

[00:25:05] Kyle Risi: So the police, they questioned Richard. For 22 hours straight, Adam. Eventually he does admit to stealing Lewis's pearl bracelet, but he insists he did not kidnap

[00:25:14] Adam Cox: Elizabeth.

[00:25:15] But he tended to take a lie detector test. Mm-hmm. Yep. So he didn't, so he did take the bracelet but didn't take the goble in the sand. He did take the goblet in the sand. Oh, but not the bracelet.

[00:25:25] Kyle Risi: He did take the bracelet. He took the goblet of sand. He did not take Elizabeth, is what [00:25:30] he's saying.

[00:25:31] Adam Cox: Wow. I feel like I don't trust this guy now.

[00:25:35] Kyle Risi: So police, they, of course they do not buy this and that's because they're sitting on a detail that convinces them that he did.

[00:25:42] In their background check. They discovered that Richard had dropped his Jeep off for repairs sometime in late May, 2002. Before the repairs were finished richard came back on the 30th of May to pick it up, telling the garage that he needed it, but he would bring it back in a few days and they're like, whoa, whoa, [00:26:00] whoa. The Jeep's not ready yet. can't you just wait a few days? He's like, Nope, I need the Jeep now.

[00:26:05] For some kidnapping. For some kidnapping, which he does. He brings the Jeep back on the 8th of June. So this is three days after Elizabeth's kidnapping.

[00:26:14] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:14] At the time, the mechanic notices Richard is acting a little bit strange, but more than that, the Jeep has now covered in mud, like has been kind of driven off road.

[00:26:23] On top of that, the garage notices it's clocked an extra 1000 miles. And the guy at the garage also sees Richard [00:26:30] remove a machete from the boot So of course this convinces the cops that he did it.

[00:26:35] Richard, he denies everything. He even offers to take a polygraph test.

[00:26:38] Oh, really, Richard.

[00:26:40] Okay. So he takes a test, Adam, he passes flying colors.

[00:26:45] They also do a forensic sweep of the Jeep and nothing turns up. They bring in canine units to kind of sniff around. There's nothing on that vehicle.

[00:26:53] The point is the police, they can't let this go. They are convinced that he must know something and it's partly because Richard is her [00:27:00] only lead.

[00:27:00] Adam Cox: Sure. And so him obviously lying or maybe taking the Jeep that looked a bit suspicious or whatever, and then driving for a thousand miles, is he actually, covering up something else?

[00:27:10] But that's why he's being Oh yeah. Possibly.

[00:27:12] Kyle Risi: Who knows, like he's got a sketchy past. Mm-hmm.

[00:27:15] But then Adam, something happens to pull into question. Richard's guilt altogether because at around 3:00 AM on the 24th of July, while Olivia Wright is asleep in her bed, she's jolted awake by something crashed to the floor in her bedroom.

[00:27:29] When [00:27:30] she looks, she sees a man cutting through the window screen from outside.

[00:27:34] Adam Cox: Oh, so it's the same guy then. It's the same pattern cutting through a window screen.

[00:27:39] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm. He's striking again. So that kind of proves that maybe it wasn't Richard. They've got the wrong guy.

[00:27:45] Adam Cox: Yes. And this guy is going after another young girl, essentially. Mm-hmm. So he's got a pattern.

[00:27:51] Kyle Risi: So instinctively Olivia, she screams and the man bolts. When the cops arrive, they find a chair propped outside of a window in the same way that a [00:28:00] chair was used at the smart house. Immediately though, Adam, and amazingly, the cops write this off as a prank.

[00:28:07] Adam Cox: Really?

[00:28:08] Kyle Risi: Yeah. The most they do is interview some of Olivia's immediate family. But they're just not taking this seriously. They do not believe that this is connected in any way.

[00:28:17] And I'm sorry, I don't understand that. Because I could maybe see this being a prank if someone had just simply taps on the window and run away. Remember, this is a big story at the moment. It's all in the paper, so I get it. Maybe some kids have done that.

[00:28:29] But to be [00:28:30] cutting your way through the window mesh with a knife. To me that doesn't feel like a prank.

[00:28:35] Adam Cox: That's also vandalism.

[00:28:36] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Yeah. And potentially burglary.

[00:28:38] Also, Adam Olivia Wright is Elizabeth's cousin.

[00:28:43] Adam Cox: Oh. That seems, yeah. Like they're being targeted, right?

[00:28:48] Kyle Risi: Yeah. It doesn't feel like a prank at all.

[00:28:50] So this belief that this was a prank means that the cops, they just continue going after Richard full throttle.

[00:28:55] On the 27th of August, though, they decide to move forward with [00:29:00] charges against Richard.

[00:29:01] He is sent off to a court hearing and when he gets back to his cell, he starts complaining of dizziness and shortness of breath. A few minutes later, Richard collapses and two days later, Adam, he dies from a brain aneurysm.

[00:29:14] Oh, bloody hell yeah.

[00:29:15] And just like that, their only lead in this case is completely gone.

[00:29:19] Adam Cox: So that must mean to them Well, they can't solve the case.

[00:29:23] Kyle Risi: they have, they have to start looking for other leads, right? the logical thing to do at this moment in time is go, okay, so we've lost Richard. We [00:29:30] can't prove that he did this.

[00:29:30] Maybe we should look at this other attempted kidnapping case in little more detail, not discounts as just a prank.

[00:29:37] So by now it's been three months since Elizabeth were taken Ed and Lois's biggest fear in all of this, Adam, is that the press will start to move on to other stories eventually.

[00:29:46] So to keep the story alive, they start working with a PR company who ends up booking them on various kind of morning talk shows. And for a while it works. They get more tips, they keep flooding into the cops. most of them are junk. Which really ends up [00:30:00] frustrating the cops because they end up like chasing the tails a lot of the time. So they're like, oh. The smarts been on television. Again, we've got like an influx of kind of leads. They don't lead anywhere. Fucking smarts.

[00:30:09] Adam Cox: Yeah, it must be kind of annoying because they have to do that, but at the same time, how much wasted time that causes because of all the false leads. But there only needs to be one that actually pans out

[00:30:19] Kyle Risi: exactly for the smarts even if a lead turns out to be bogus, at least the case is still being talked about according to them.

[00:30:26] But after two months of this, there are no meaningful leads. [00:30:30] Even the smarts, they start to face a possibility that maybe they'll never find Elizabeth alive.

[00:30:34] But then Adam, on the 12th of October, 2002, almost outta the blue, Mary Catherine is in her room flipping through her copy of the Guinness Book of Records.

[00:30:45] Mm-hmm. Specifically, I think she's reading an entry about the world's strongest woman or something when suddenly she remembers where she's heard the kidnapper's voice before.

[00:30:55] Oh,

[00:30:56] she went to her parents screaming. She says, I know who took Elizabeth. I [00:31:00] know who took her. And they're like, who? And she says, it was Emmanuel.

[00:31:05] Who's Emmanuel?

[00:31:08] So basically just before Thanksgiving in November, 2001, Lois and Elizabeth are near the Salt Lake Temple when Lois gives a homeless man, $5.

[00:31:17] Okay.

[00:31:18] They're not the sort of people to kind of just hand out the cash and just walk off so they hang back, they talk to him for a while, the man tells them that his name is Emmanuel.

[00:31:26] Mm-hmm.

[00:31:26] And Lois also notices how well [00:31:30] spoken. He's but also, he's a devout Mormon. So to her, he's part of her community. In the end, Lois tells him that if he ever needed any work, they could probably come to some sort of an arrangement. And so he takes her up on the offer.

[00:31:43] Ed says they need some help a skylight, and there's a bunch of gardening work that needs doing. So that day, Emmanuel spends roughly around six hours doing some handwork around the house, and in the end, end ends up paying him $40. And that is it, Adam.

[00:31:57] That is the last time they ever see [00:32:00] him ever again.

[00:32:00] Adam Cox: So a very short space of time.

[00:32:03] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And this is the guy's voice that Mary Catherine says that she remembers.

[00:32:07] Adam Cox: So does he have a very distinct voice or thick accent or something like that? And how did the Guinness Book of Records? I know, I, I have no idea. Make go. Oh my God, it's Emmanuel.

[00:32:17] Kyle Risi: Oh my God, it's him. I have no idea. But it's the first meaningful lead that they've come up with. And it's all because Mary Catherine has gone, I remember the voice now.

[00:32:24] But it's just crazy that he was only at the house for six hours. She probably only spoke to him for a few minutes, but yet [00:32:30] she recognized that voice.

[00:32:31] Adam Cox: Yeah. He must have something quite distinct for that to stand out, because normally you just, that would never happen.

[00:32:37] Kyle Risi: And so, like Emmanuel, he's such a minor blimp in their lives that his name never even appeared on the list that Ed gave the police when they asked for it.

[00:32:45] So when Mary Catherine says this is the voice that she heard, even the police struggle to believe it.

[00:32:51] They end up speaking to Mary Catherine, and they approach it with a sort of air of skepticism and at first, remember she's super confident that is the [00:33:00] voice that she heard. But the more they question her, the more she starts to doubt herself. Which only reinforces in the cop's mind that she must be wrong.

[00:33:07] Adam Cox: I get that, that would have that effect on you, but almost like all, if you've got no other leads, at least go speak to the guy.

[00:33:15] Kyle Risi: They do work with Ed and Lewis to pull together a sketch of Emmanuel. They do like six versions of it, and each time Ed and Lewis are like, Nope, you're just not getting it. It's back and forth for ages for like a month until a different sketch artist takes over and on [00:33:30] the very first try, the smarter like that is him.

[00:33:32] So they've got the sketch. Ed and Lois, they want the sketch to be released immediately since this is of course the first bit of progress that they've had in months.

[00:33:42] The police say no. They're concerned that if the man depicted in the sketch sees us because he's a homeless guy. He might just end up running off.

[00:33:50] Adam Cox: Ah yeah. ' Or change his appearance. All sorts.

[00:33:53] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Their plan is to keep searching for him quietly, but they also tell the smarts not to tell [00:34:00] anyone that the sketch exists.

[00:34:02] But here's the thing, for both Ed and Lois, they really have to pick the battles because without the police on side, they risk the police stalling even more.

[00:34:09] Around December weeks have gone by. The police still haven't found Emmanuel. The smarts are still working with their PR company to try and keep Elizabeth's name alive in the press this whole time they are just quietly sitting on the fact that they have this sketch of a potential suspect essentially, and they just cannot use it. They cannot go on these shows and [00:34:30] say, we have a sketch, have a look at it. Does anyone recognize this? They cannot do that.

[00:34:34] Throughout this whole ordeal. The smarts have also grown extremely close to a guy called John Walsh From the TV show, America's Most Wanted, right? they really connect over Elizabeth's disappearance 'cause John also suffered through a kidnapping of his own child.

[00:34:47] So more than anyone, he really understands both the pain and the frustration that the smarts are going through.

[00:34:53] Ed tells John about the sketch and how the cops are just sitting on it,

[00:34:56] mm-hmm. John is outraged by this, he decides to go on Larry [00:35:00] King Live and on Air. He drops that there is a sketch of the suspect and that in a future episode of America's Most Wanted, they are going to be running a full segment where they're gonna be profiling the guy so like. How old is he? Like what is he gonna be like as a person basically using their, their profiling skills. So try and just kind of like, does this sound like anyone, you know,

[00:35:21] the cops find out about this, Adam, they are furious. Ed tries to obviously explain that he didn't know that John was gonna do this.

[00:35:28] But in the end, ed is [00:35:30] like damnit, like you are not making any progress in this case whatsoever. And yes, while this is a massive gamble and while John has gone ahead and done this, at least we're doing something. Mm-hmm. Do you understand what I mean?

[00:35:41] And so from there, the smarter decide to lean into this path that they've now carved out for themselves. Inadvertently, they don't really want John to do this, but now they're like, it's done.

[00:35:50] Let's just see what we can do with him.

[00:35:52] They decide to hold a press conference on the 7th of February where they explain that Richard Reese is not likely the guy that they're looking [00:36:00] for.

[00:36:00] They then revealed the sketch of Emmanuel and explained how they met him, and from there, the press run with a story.

[00:36:07] Three days later when an employee of the Latterday Saints Temple in Salt Lake City, a man named Tom Holbrooke sees the sketch in the paper and realizes the man is actually his wife's brother David Mitchell.

[00:36:22] Adam Cox: Okay. So we've got a potential name.

[00:36:24] Kyle Risi: Yeah. So the reason why the cops haven't been able to find this Emmanuel guy is, 'cause his name's not even Emmanuel. [00:36:30]

[00:36:30] Adam Cox: So he gave them a fake name or just goes off by like his nickname Emmanuel.

[00:36:34] Kyle Risi: Yeah. He chose the name Emmanuel. And I'll explain why, because we're actually gonna go through who Brian David Mitchell is. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:41] So he is from Salt Lake City, by most accounts. He comes from a fairly broken home. His father is this wannabe preacher with this tendency for violence, especially towards Brian and his siblings.

[00:36:53] Mm-hmm. Growing up, Brian is a bit of a loner, but also a massive attention seeker In high school, he is [00:37:00] sent to juvenile detention after he exposes himself to a 4-year-old kid.

[00:37:05] Adam Cox: And how old is he when he did that? Like

[00:37:07] Kyle Risi: high school?

[00:37:08] Adam Cox: Yeah, that's, I mean, I was about to say that's not okay, but it's not okay at any age.

[00:37:12] Kyle Risi: basically after juvie, this ends up leading him down a path of stealing and prolific drug use. ends up dropping outta school at 16 after he ends up getting his girlfriend pregnant.

[00:37:21] His family essentially forced him to get married, which as you can imagine is not a gray foundation to kind of start with in any relationship.[00:37:30]

[00:37:30] And so by the time that they've had their second child, they are completely separated. And at this point Brian is super unhappy with the custody arrangements and in the end he decides the only way to get around that is to abduct his kids and run away to New Hampshire.

[00:37:47] Okay.

[00:37:48] He starts basically experimenting in New Hampshire with LSD, which is when he claims that he gets a spiritual awakening and so decisive return to the [00:38:00] epicenter of the church back in Salt Lake City.

[00:38:03] Adam Cox: I dunno too much about Mormonism, but I'm pretty sure stealing or kidnapping children.

[00:38:07] Kyle Risi: They've got some strange customs, but definitely I don't think that is part of it.

[00:38:11] Adam Cox: But this LSD is kind of leading the way to say, yeah, steal your kids.

[00:38:16] Kyle Risi: So it's back in Salt Lake City that he meets a woman with three kids and almost immediately he ends up sexually assaulting them all.

[00:38:24] Oh, wow. Yeah. He's not a good guy. Of course, when she finds out, that ends the relationship and [00:38:30] he ends up moving on. She moves on as well. Mm-hmm. Eventually Brian meets another woman called Wonder Barsy in a lot of ways. She's very much like him. She comes from a very unstable background. She leads a very chaotic life with significant amounts of mental health issues. But like Brian, she's intensely devout as a Mormon. As time goes on, Brian and Wonder, they end up drifting into kind of fringe Mormonism and libertarian thinking. They believe The apocalypse is very close by and that someone [00:39:00] strong and mighty will emerge and rescue the Mormon church from the sin that is kind of trapped in that moment.

[00:39:06] Mm-hmm. Brian becomes convinced that he's that person.

[00:39:09] Brian changes his name to Emmanuel, which means God is with us. He quits his job, he grows Jesus beard. He starts wearing robes everywhere.

[00:39:18] Wonder is fully on board as well. She, she changes her name to Heba, Basically is a name that's more fitting to a prophet's wife.

[00:39:26] And together they start traveling cross country as wandering preachers. [00:39:30] Brian spreads his own kind of personal take on the Mormon scripture. It completely takes over their entire lives. Their beliefs are so fringe and so extreme that they end up alienating themselves from their families who are all just regular Mormons.

[00:39:42] Right. It doesn't help that Brian is claiming that he is an actual profit as well. So that's gonna also accelerate that kind of like, ugh, keep away.

[00:39:50] It gets serious enough that his mother takes out a restraining order against him just to keep him away.

[00:39:55] I mean, he is a pedophile, right? Yeah. I dunno if they know that though,

[00:39:58] Adam Cox: but yes. I'm [00:40:00] surprised he wasn't like locked up or

[00:40:01] Kyle Risi: Exactly. That's one of the problems as well, is that he wasn't caught, he wasn't put in prison for this mm-hmm. On the road in order to survive. They either sleep in their cars or they camp out in the woods in tents. Mm-hmm.

[00:40:12] It's around about this time that Emmanuel meets Lois and Elizabeth outside the Latterday Saints temple in Salt Lake City When Tom Hallbrook sees the sketch of Emmanuel in the papers, he and his wife Lisa, they call the cops immediately and they say they think this man is her brother, So it's a [00:40:30] major breakthrough in the case. Right. It's huge.

[00:40:31] Adam Cox: And it's amazing. Like those sketches, they do work.

[00:40:34] Kyle Risi: Yeah. '

[00:40:35] Adam Cox: cause usually they don't really look like the person. Mm-hmm. But I guess if you know who that face is, you kind of put the two and two together.

[00:40:41] Kyle Risi: While this is a breakthrough, the smarts know nothing about this. The police do not tell the smarts about Tom and Lisa's statement.

[00:40:49] Adam Cox: That seems crazy because Why wouldn't you show that you're Yeah. Doing a good job? That you are solving the case.

[00:40:54] Kyle Risi: That you're moving forward

[00:40:55] Adam Cox: Yeah. That you could be helping to close this case. Mm.

[00:40:59] Kyle Risi: So isn't until [00:41:00] mid-February when FBI, special agent Mick Finity casually hears about this lead, the fact that they've spoken to Tom and Lisa in a casual conversation, Mick decides to run Brian's name through every database that he can access, and there he finds not only the details about Brian's sketchy past, but also an actual mugshot that looks incredibly similar to the, the sketch in the papers.

[00:41:22] So when the police kind of saw the sketch and they kind of looked into Brian, they clearly saw that there was such a stark similarity. Mm-hmm. Yet [00:41:30] they still didn't take action. It's just wild to me. Which makes him seriously question why the police are still just sitting on this information.

[00:41:36] He knows that if he flags this internally, there is no guarantee that this will end up moving anything forward. Certainly not as fast as the case action needs.

[00:41:44] He knows though, that the smarts did take a gamble by going to the press and that eventually worked. So he decides at a major risk to his own career that he needs to get this information to the smarts so they can push it through the same PR channels that they had already [00:42:00] built.

[00:42:00] It's also perfect timing because the episode of America's Most Wanted is just about to air their segment,

[00:42:07] Adam Cox: so are they gonna give that information to the show so that they, you know, it's more than just a, a picture or a profile of someone, they've actually got more data that suspect a name.

[00:42:16] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Yeah. It means that the profile can expand from an unknown suspect to an actual real person with a name and a face So when the episode finally airs. Adam phone lines. They go berserk. They receive hundreds of [00:42:30] sightings all over the country.

[00:42:31] Some of the most recent sightings of Brian are as recent as the day before the episode aired

[00:42:37] Adam Cox: so he must be close by or at least close to someone. Yeah. To track him down.

[00:42:41] Kyle Risi: He's active, he's out there. He's not exactly concealing himself.

[00:42:45] Adam Cox: No, but then he probably needs to, because now he's on like national news, whatever. Sure.

[00:42:49] Kyle Risi: But the thing is though, if they had run with this sketch way earlier, someone would've definitely seen him, right?

[00:42:54] Yeah. Because they instantly got all these leads in. It's just wild that the police didn't do this and they could potentially have [00:43:00] someone in custody.

[00:43:00] Adam Cox: What is this guy doing if he's got so many leads? Like what is he? doing?

[00:43:04] Kyle Risi: He's been right under their noses and cops were still unable to track him down.

[00:43:08] They also get a report from a shopkeeper who says they had caught Brian on camera shoplifting a case of beer in the area on the night that Elizabeth was taken. Okay. So he was there. They can place him now.

[00:43:18] Yeah. As well as the sightings of Brian himself reports are also coming in that he has been seen with two women, an adult and what appears to be clearly a young child, maybe between the ages of [00:43:30] 13 and 15 years old.

[00:43:31] Adam Cox: So Elizabeth. But then who is the other woman? His wife. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:43:35] Kyle Risi: So

[00:43:35] Adam Cox: the two are doing it

[00:43:36] Kyle Risi: together. But isn't that incredible? Like if this is Elizabeth, she's not one of those statistics where she's been taken and then murdered mm-hmm. Within 24 hours and he's actively keeping her near him.

[00:43:47] Adam Cox: Yeah. Why is he kidnapped her? Why is he keeping, because usually it's for ransom. Mm-hmm. Or like something much more sinister like you say. Yeah. To kill them. So does he want to raise her as a child? 'cause you mentioned that he went to try and get [00:44:00] his lost kids before.

[00:44:01] Is he trying to use Elizabeth as his own daughter or something?

[00:44:04] Kyle Risi: Well, let's go into it.

[00:44:05] So obviously the assumption is that the adult is his wife wonder. And the child is Elizabeth. They can't be sure though, because both the women are covered head to toe in robes. Like I'm talking bke style. Oh. One of the key sightings is the three of them at an all-you-can-eat buffet. It stands out not only because of what they're wearing, but also because they're eating like they just haven't properly in, days.

[00:44:27] Adam Cox: So they're like shoving food on their base,

[00:44:29] Kyle Risi: [00:44:30] shov lifting up the birken and shoveling it in.

[00:44:32] Other signings come in that they've been spotted at laundromats. Brian's been spotted buying beer repeatedly. Other sightings also place them at parties where both the girls are just standing in the corner full robes the entire time

[00:44:43] Adam Cox: Okay. Why? They're kind of

[00:44:45] Kyle Risi: just waiting for Brian to kind of finish up so they can go home. Okay. But they're there with him. Right. He's taken them with him, to keep an eye on them.

[00:44:51] Adam Cox: Yeah,

[00:44:51] Kyle Risi: Of course, they're also seen preaching a lot, which definitely stands out since Brian is preaching this fringe Mormonism in a city field, which is regular Mormons. [00:45:00] Right? So that sticks out to people but also it sticks out because with him, are these two people in these really kind of like conservative full robes, which isn't quite typical, so that's definitely gonna stand out, in your mind. Mm-hmm.

[00:45:12] Some people who do manage to speak to him, they say that he introduces the women as his wife and his daughter.

[00:45:18] But it's not just the public because on the 27th of September, Brian has busted shoplifting beer, but police end up just letting him go because it's just another shoplifting charge.

[00:45:28] So they don't take him to the station. They don't [00:45:30] check his records. They don't check any of this stuff. They're just like, oh, it's just routine shoplifting case. We'll kind of slap it on the wrist and let him go.

[00:45:36] Adam Cox: That's bad. Especially if he's done this multiple times before. Surely you do it so many times, the severity gets worse.

[00:45:42] Kyle Risi: As recently as the 12th of February, so three days before the America's most wanted episode Brian is arrested in California after breaking into a church and passing out drunk on the floor. So the police pick him up, and eventually though he's released six days later on the 18th of [00:46:00] February on probation.

[00:46:00] So by this point, the episode has aired. Everyone has seen it. Obviously the judge hasn't seen the episode, and so he just ends up walking free. But can you imagine if the judge goes, hang on, you look familiar. I've seen your face somewhere before.

[00:46:13] Adam Cox: Do I know you?

[00:46:14] Kyle Risi: Yeah, but he doesn't recognize him.

[00:46:16] Adam Cox: So time after time, this guy just keeps getting away with, well not with murder, but with just all with kidnapping. With kidnapping, but with all these kind of convictions and things that he's doing, no one is like. Lock him up.

[00:46:27] Kyle Risi: No, And so he ends up walking free, but this [00:46:30] is where there's a span of about four weeks where nobody sees him again.

[00:46:34] Adam Cox: So do you think that he knows that he's bit on tv?

[00:46:37] Kyle Risi: Let's find out

[00:46:38] because Adam, on the 12th of March, 2003, around 1:00 PM multiple people around the same time all dial 9 1 1 and say that they have spotted Brian and two women arriving at a bus station in Salt Lake City.

[00:46:53] This time however, the women, they're not wearing veils, and I guess it's because robes have all of a sudden become far too [00:47:00] recognizable. Right?

[00:47:00] Adam Cox: Yeah. A bit of a giveaway if you see those two women. Chances are they do know that they've been on the news.

[00:47:05] Kyle Risi: A few minutes later, the police arrive, they start questioning Brian. He says that his name is Peter Marshall.

[00:47:10] They ask for id, but he tells 'em that he doesn't need identification because he and his family are messages from God on a holy mission. And so they don't have any useful such things.

[00:47:21] And the police are like, yeah, that's, that's sus.

[00:47:23] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:47:24] Kyle Risi: I'm gonna need to see some id. Yeah. They turn to the girl who they notice is wearing a wig, basically. Mm-hmm. [00:47:30] She looks disheveled, she's grubby, she's exhausted. She's also not quite there either.

[00:47:34] She tells them that her name is Augustine Marshall.

[00:47:38] Okay. So basically Paul Marshall's, daughter. They then start asking her basic questions and details about her life, like, what is your date of birth? what's your social security number? She answers that simple things right. They're basically trying to see if she'll stumble They then ask her where she's from without hesitation. She says, Miami, Florida.

[00:47:55] So thinking on his feet, the cops go, oh, that's nice. [00:48:00] remind me. What's the area code for Miami? And she can't answer it,

[00:48:03] Adam Cox: yeah. So she's obviously been drilled into certain answers and questions and stuff like that. Yeah. But not been prepped for that.

[00:48:09] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Finally, the cops know what they're doing.

[00:48:11] Then one of the officers leans in and gently whispers to her that she's safe her parents love her, and that they want her to come home The girl immediately starts crying That's a giveaway. And all she can do is whisper back

[00:48:24] if thou safe. Basically, I think means if you say so. Mm-hmm. that's all she could really [00:48:30] muster, to say in that moment.

[00:48:31] She's petrified. That she could be in danger.

[00:48:33] So in that moment, the cops, take all three of them down to the station separately. Of course, the police immediately call Ed and lo they put the girl in a room on her own.

[00:48:42] And eventually when Ed gets to the station, he walks through the doors, takes one, look at her, and they both just break breakdown together.

[00:48:50] The girl was Elizabeth Smart.

[00:48:52] Adam Cox: Wow.

[00:48:53] How unreal that they found her.

[00:48:56] Kyle Risi: 281 days Wow. She has been missing for,

[00:48:59] Adam Cox: and so [00:49:00] she has been clearly convinced or somehow that why is she being convinced to like, go along with it? Yeah. And even when, like

[00:49:07] Kyle Risi: even at the point when the police are standing in front of her. Yeah.

[00:49:08] Adam Cox: Why is she not getting help? But yeah, I guess she's been like brainwashed to the point where she's so scared to act out.

[00:49:14] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And that's one of the things that I really struggle to understand. even when it was very clear that she could be rescued with a cop standing in front of her, she was still uncertain, which kind of goes to show how much he broke her down.

[00:49:27] Mm-hmm. And even going through her [00:49:30] explanation of it, I still struggle a little bit to understand, but why, but still why even in that moment Yeah.

[00:49:35] Adam Cox: Could hurt. You could have broke free or run away or told someone.

[00:49:38] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Here's a amazing thing. The cops move fast, right? They get her checked over by a medical examiner and by 9:00 PM that night, Elizabeth is back home with her family where she goes to bed in the same room that she was taken from all those months before next to her little sister.

[00:49:53] Adam Cox: That is incredible. Same day, not like kept somewhere else or whatever. And equally just her parents did. They [00:50:00] really think, that they would ever get their daughter back?

[00:50:02] Kyle Risi: I think it started to wane, especially the more time that goes by every single day is one chip away from you potentially losing all hope. But they continued and I think they found renewed hope when Mary Catherine was like, I think I know that voice.

[00:50:15] Adam Cox: Yeah, that is wild. without her just all of a sudden, and then being able to pin that to her, and then the sketch obviously jogged people's memory. wow. Her sister saved the day. Really? Yeah, she did. Thank God she was awake at that moment in time.

[00:50:26] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Exactly. She was awake. If she had slept through it all, we might [00:50:30] never have seen Elizabeth again. That is so true. That is so true.

[00:50:32] So her ordeal though, Adam is not over. If the cops are going to put Brian away, they're going to need Elizabeth to testify. Right. She's a 14-year-old kid. She's been through this traumatic incident.

[00:50:43] Mm-hmm.

[00:50:44] That's not gonna be an easy ask, because Adam, what she goes through is just awful.

[00:50:49] After Brian kidnapped her that evening, he took her up into the mountains to a campsite where Wonder was waiting for them.

[00:50:57] There Wonder washes Elizabeth's feet. And [00:51:00] after that, they basically perform a ceremony where Elizabeth is married to Brian as his second wife.

[00:51:06] What? Yeah, after this, he immediately rapes her. Brian then padlocks her ankle to a steel cable that he ties then to a tree. And in the days and weeks that follow, Brian begins the process of breaking down her identity.

[00:51:21] He renames her, he gives her a whole new backstory. Though he does allow her to choose her own middle name, She chooses the name Esther, which is a name [00:51:30] associated strongly with courage in the Bible. Which is really interesting because I think it's the fact that she's allowed to choose her own middle name that actually allows her to cling onto hope after all these months, if he hadn't allowed her to choose her own middle name, I think. Her identity and the will to kind of try and escape or that desire to escape their hope would've disappeared with that.

[00:51:50] Adam Cox: If she knew the meaning of that word or the name and she gets to choose that and it's hers. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. That's her way of like fighting this now that you've said all [00:52:00] those things, I can understand why she perhaps would've been so scared.

[00:52:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:52:03] To just run away or tell the police straight away. He really probably did a number on her.

[00:52:08] Kyle Risi: Yeah, he did.

[00:52:09] Elizabeth says that in the first few days after she's taken, she heard the search parties calling her name for hours At one point she even hears her uncle's voice calling.

[00:52:19] Where was she then? She was in the woods basically in the foothills. They expanded the search and there was 8,000 people searching for her.

[00:52:26] So they weren't that far away? No. She says that anytime the search [00:52:30] got close, Brian would hold a knife to her neck and tell her that if it came in any closer, he'd kill her.

[00:52:34] So for Elizabeth, staying silent becomes this kind of matter of life and death. Mm-hmm. She says, the next couple months just become a blur to her, and part of that is because the abuse is so relentless. Brian rapes her every single day while wander waits outside of the tent.

[00:52:49] Adam Cox: What is wrong with that woman?

[00:52:50] Kyle Risi: She's nuts. Brian tells Elizabeth that while she is his second wife, she's also wonder's handmade, which Elizabeth eventually understands to mean that she's her [00:53:00] personal slave, which is how he sells the idea to wonder, to even bring her into this and to kind of kidnap her in the first place, he'd be like, yeah, I've got a second wife. But you get yourself a personal slave.

[00:53:09] Adam Cox: That is ridiculous for even wonder to go, oh, okay. Yeah, I'll share you because I get a slave.

[00:53:15] Kyle Risi: that's exactly what Wanda does. She forces Elizabeth into back break and work around the camp while they just end up drinking and taking drugs all night.

[00:53:22] And as part of breaking her down, remember, Elizabeth has lived her whole life by these really strong values of [00:53:30] abstinence and no alcohol, no drugs So Brian forces her to drink, which is huge. So underneath all that fear, the pain and the abuse there is now all of a sudden this new fear that if she's rescued, how will her community receive her if they find out what she's been forced to do? Right.

[00:53:48] Adam Cox: Yeah, that's fine if it's a choice, but clearly none of these things were her choice. How could a community shun her for that?

[00:53:54] Kyle Risi: But the thing is though, that's really baked in to the community, the things that you choose to do or even [00:54:00] forced to do, reflect on you. Now, of course, some womans, I'm certain would obviously have understanding, but still this is a fear for her. So it must be some sort of reality for her that what she's done or forced to do is going to reflect badly on her.

[00:54:14] Adam Cox: Yeah, that's messed up. She's 14. No way should anyone ever think that.

[00:54:18] Kyle Risi: Yeah, now with the idea of being saved comes this dread attached to it, which is awful. Which only helps to continue to break it down. Do I actually wanna be rescued at the end of this

[00:54:28] Adam Cox: Yeah, because what's [00:54:30] she gonna go back to if that's the fear that she has? Again, that might explain the way that she was when she's found. Mm-hmm. She, Perhaps she doesn't wanna be found

[00:54:37] Kyle Risi: I don't think he ever convinces Elizabeth of this, but he certainly convinced himself that he's justified in doing what he's doing because he believes he's a prophet chosen by God. And so in his mind, he has a right to do exactly what he's doing to Elizabeth

[00:54:52] Adam Cox: and all prophets, rape 14 year olds,

[00:54:54] Kyle Risi: essentially.

[00:54:55] Yeah.

[00:54:56] Eventually, he tells her that she isn't gonna be his only wife. He talks about [00:55:00] how God wants him to marry seven versions that are all going to bear his divine offspring.

[00:55:05] At some point, he mentions where his mother lives and how she's taken a restraining order out against him.

[00:55:11] Elizabeth, in that moment, without thinking, she says that her 15-year-old cousin, Olivia, actually lives in that same neighborhood, and so Brian takes us as a sign from God that Olivia will be his next wife.

[00:55:23] Adam Cox: Ah, that was definitely him then. Yeah. It was not a hoax. Damn. So once again, [00:55:30] police, if you just, I don't know, maybe looked into it.

[00:55:32] Yep.

[00:55:33] Kyle Risi: So on the 24th of July, Brian tries to kidnap Olivia from her bedroom. So as you can imagine, hearing this from Elizabeth does not bode well for the cops who completely dismissed this as a hoax. They now look like idiots. Yeah, good.

[00:55:47] Over time Elizabeth says that Brian grows confident that the police aren't looking for them anymore. And this is when he starts to bring her into Salt Lake City to help preach with him. Obviously he makes wear full robes to hide her entire face. She says, Adam, that [00:56:00] there are moments where she literally walks within arms reach of people she knows.

[00:56:04] Adam Cox: Really? Isn't that awful? And she can't do anything. Yeah. Or she doesn't feel like she can do anything.

[00:56:10] Kyle Risi: We don't learn about this until much later on, but cops actually do get a nine one one call from someone who say they think that they've spotted Elizabeth in a public library.

[00:56:18] And when the cops go there, they ask the girl if she's Elizabeth. But under the table, wonder is squeezing her leg as a warning not to say anything

[00:56:25] really. So they do actually go there?

[00:56:27] Yeah. Wander answers for her, [00:56:30] obviously. Mm-hmm. And then the cops ask if she can lift her veil so they can verify. But Brian jumps into that moment and says that she can't for religious reasons.

[00:56:37] Adam Cox: Ah,

[00:56:37] Kyle Risi: and that's it. Adam, the officers, they leave

[00:56:40] Adam Cox: i'm sorry, like I get, respect for religions and stuff, but. When you are looking for someone, you're like, I have to rule this out.

[00:56:47] Kyle Risi: Exactly. And that's the most maddening thing about this, because there are obviously things the police could have done in that moment. Mm-hmm. They could have sent a female officer to confirm her identity. Right. Yeah. But they don't,

[00:56:57] Adam Cox: ah, I can't believe so many times they come close to [00:57:00] getting her, like how she stayed hidden for 281 days. I know.

[00:57:04] Kyle Risi: It's weird. So after this close shave, this is when Brian decides that he's gonna relocate them to California.

[00:57:10] Mm-hmm. And so they leave.

[00:57:11] over the years, since she was rescued, she's gotten a lot of criticism for not escaping when she had all these different opportunities , some people do say that she was suffering from potentially Stockholm syndrome.

[00:57:23] Mm-hmm.

[00:57:24] Or that she had maybe grown to love Brian and wonder, but Elizabeth has always been clear that was [00:57:30] not true. She says that every decision, including not running, was about survival. Right. The library was one of the very first times that she'd ever been out in public after being taken.

[00:57:40] Right.

[00:57:41] The whole time. She had just been at a campsite tethered to a damn tree. She was still trying to understand the rules of her situation, trying to work out what was possible without literally getting herself killed.

[00:57:52] Adam Cox: Yeah, it's, I think it's very easy for anyone to say that you dunno how she was feeling and at 14 you don't have that confidence or you, [00:58:00] maybe you do, but she didn't,

[00:58:01] Kyle Risi: and she was scared. Right. She'd been through awful abuse up to that point.

[00:58:05] But the thing is though, after that near Miss, they relocate to California, this makes any escape way harder than it would've been had she been able to stay in Salt Lake City.

[00:58:14] Yeah.

[00:58:15] Because in Salt Lake City, she's seen people that she knows. But halfway across the country, she knows nobody. If she does escape, she's got no money. What's she gonna do? She doesn't know anyone.

[00:58:24] Adam Cox: Exactly. At least here, she could run to the police station or whoever. Yeah. Whatever it was.

[00:58:29] Kyle Risi: She could have gone [00:58:30] to the temple that she goes to all the time. She knows where it is.

[00:58:32] So she says that if she was going to escape, she had to do it the right way at the right time. Yeah. Which I totally get. And part of that is learning everything she can about Brian and Wonder, which is just incredible because in California.

[00:58:47] Elizabeth says that Brian and Wonder, they start to constantly fight about her, especially about how much time Brian is spending with her.

[00:58:53] Adam Cox: Oh, jealousy.

[00:58:54] Kyle Risi: Yes. Remember, it's not only Brian who threatens her safety, wonder is [00:59:00] equally volatile and violent as well. She could easily turn on Elizabeth at any moment.

[00:59:04] So Elizabeth proposes a schedule, so she's smart that Brian will spend the mornings with Wonder and the afternoons with her. Obviously this isn't what she wants, but it keeps the friction between Brian and Wander down and therefore keeps her alive, essentially.

[00:59:18] Adam Cox: Yeah. And also probably gives her a bit of space as well, maybe.

[00:59:21] Kyle Risi: She even describes moments where Brian tries to assault her in the morning and she'll remind him that wonder will be hangry, and he's like, yeah, yeah, you're right.

[00:59:29] And, and he [00:59:30] stops. Geez. For a 14-year-old girl, that's horrifying. There's also brutally brilliant, like she's incredibly clever mm-hmm. In what she's doing.

[00:59:38] While they're in California, Brian is arrested for breaking into that church and passing out drunk on the floor. After this, he decides that obviously they need to move again.

[00:59:46] He starts talking about potentially relocating them to Philadelphia or Boston, which is even further away. From Salt Lake City, where even fewer people are likely to recognize her again, Elizabeth is smart.

[00:59:57] She leans into what she knows about his [01:00:00] ego, and she says that she has a feeling that they should return to Salt Lake City, which she frames as a possible sign from God.

[01:00:08] But she plays it very carefully because she says, I'm not sure though, but only you, Brian can really interpret the true meaning of that feeling because obviously you're a prophet from God. Right. So maybe you should reflect on that a bit.

[01:00:21] Adam Cox: Wow. Play into his, uh, ego a little bit. Yeah.

[01:00:23] Kyle Risi: And sure enough, Brian is like, your feeling was right, Elizabeth, God has told me to return to Salt Lake [01:00:30] City where I will find my next wife.

[01:00:32] Adam Cox: So is this Elizabeth feeling more confident? She know that in order for her to escape, she needs to be back closer to home. And so she's just trying to, I think, I think she's

[01:00:40] Kyle Risi: acutely aware of that. Yes.

[01:00:41] Adam Cox: Yeah. Trying to make it work for her.

[01:00:43] Kyle Risi: And so this is just a few weeks after America's Most Wanted episode has aired. The second they touched down in Salt Lake City, on that bus, dozens of people spot them. And Elizabeth is finally rescued.

[01:00:55] She manipulated him.

[01:00:57] Adam Cox: Nice work, Elizabeth.

[01:00:58] Kyle Risi: So, of course the circling [01:01:00] question is, Adam, why Elizabeth? And honestly, it comes down to nothing more than just opportunity.

[01:01:05] He had been inside the smarts world, like he knew Elizabeth and how to navigate the house. He possibly knew about the issue with the alarm system. Mm-hmm. And here's the maddening part, right?

[01:01:15] Even with Elizabeth found alive, the case against Brian and doesn't move cleanly through the system. Mike, you think this is a slam dunk? It is not. It drags on for years. How? Why? Because [01:01:30] both of them claim insanity.

[01:01:31] Adam Cox: Oh God. I mean, yes, but still,

[01:01:34] Kyle Risi: yeah. Between them, they're both diagnosed with various mental, health conditions, including delusion and schizophrenia.

[01:01:39] As a result, they are sent to state hospitals, which creates this barrier that ends up dragging the case out for years and eventually the strategy starts to crack, especially with wonder.

[01:01:50] She's told basically that now that you are medicated and you are coping well, doctors believe that you are now competent enough to stand trial.

[01:01:57] Adam Cox: Is this when she then starts screaming?

[01:01:59] Kyle Risi: No, [01:02:00] she just refuses all of her medication. She's like, oh, in that case I'll just stop taking my medication.

[01:02:05] Adam Cox: Geez.

[01:02:05] Kyle Risi: In the end, the judge is forced to rule that she be forcibly medicated just so the case can move forward. Wow.

[01:02:11] So they're like holding her down. They kind of sticking pills down her throat. No way, Adam, they managed to stretch all of this out up to 2009. So five years later,

[01:02:24] Adam Cox: damn. Five years of pleading oral or whatever.

[01:02:28] Kyle Risi: Eventually wonder does plead guilty to [01:02:30] kidnapping and the unlawful transportation of a minor across state lines. But she does this in order to secure a lighter sentence in exchange for testifying against her husband Brian. Sure.

[01:02:40] Finally though, in 2010, so eight years after the kidnapping, Brian is also deemed competent to stand trial, but instead of pleading guilty, he pleads not guilty due to reason of insanity.

[01:02:52] Adam, I feel so awful for Elizabeth. These monsters have forced her to live this nightmare for years and years after. She's come back [01:03:00] home. Yes. It's awful. She's

[01:03:00] Adam Cox: still gotta go to these court hearings or whatever. It's not closure for her. Exactly. Whatsoever.

[01:03:05] Kyle Risi: On top of that, with him pleading not guilty, by reasonable insanity, if he's successful, he'll end up in a cushy hospital rather than a prison.

[01:03:12] Yeah. And who's paying for that? It's something that really haunts Elizabeth by this point she's now fully prepared to do whatever it takes to make sure that that does not happen and that he's convicted So, which means that he'll go to like a state prison where hopefully he'll be treated brutally.

[01:03:26] But Adam, weirdly, I think that Brian's constant effort to [01:03:30] try and delay this trial is the very thing that eventually sees him being convicted. Because if the trial had happened years earlier when Elizabeth was still young, still in the thick of the trauma.

[01:03:39] She might not have had that strength to testify against him, and if he had decided to go for the insanity plea. Mm-hmm. She probably wouldn't have contested it. Right. She wouldn't have really gone full throttle in testifying against him. She might not have even attended in person and he may have been successful and he may have ended up in a psychiatric ward.

[01:03:56] Mm-hmm.

[01:03:56] But because she's now in her early twenties, like she's [01:04:00] graduated college, completed a Mormon mystery to France where she ends up meeting her husband. Along the way, she's dealt with the drama to the point that had the timeline been a few years earlier, she might not have been willing to testify against him, and now she's at the cusp of starting her own family. She's now strong enough to testify against him

[01:04:17] Adam Cox: Yeah. To fight, to have her not revenge, but,

[01:04:20] Kyle Risi: but it's bittersweet, isn't it? Mm-hmm. That you kind of had to heal before you could really go after him.

[01:04:26] Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess so.

[01:04:27] Kyle Risi: At trial, the defensive strategy is to lean [01:04:30] hard into the insanity argument. But InCorp Brian is constantly disruptive. He refuses to answer questions. He randomly like Will hum during sessions. He also will have these sudden outbursts so many that the judge has to literally remove him multiple times.

[01:04:45] Adam Cox: Is this to show that he's insane?

[01:04:46] Kyle Risi: I think so. I think it's part of their strategy. It looks unhinged and so it might be working until Elizabeth decides to get up and testify and Elizabeth does not shy away from the reality of what happened to her.

[01:04:59] And [01:05:00] remember, this is huge for her. She ends up speaking really plainly. She talks about what he did. She talks about what he forced her to do and hearing it from her hits differently than if it was just the prosecution reading out a testimony in court years before. Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So it really impactful and so it ends up working.

[01:05:20] And December, 2010, a jury rejects Brian's insanity defense. He is found guilty on all counts. He is sentenced to two life terms in [01:05:30] prison without the possibility of parole and wonder. She was previously sentenced to 15 years in prison. she ends up serving only like seven years of a sentence. She's released in 2018, only to be rearrested again, Adam, almost immediately, because part of the conditions of a release is that she stays away from any parks or schools. And so she goes and rents an apartment four doors down from the school.

[01:05:55] Adam Cox: I mean, kind of stupid. You've just got freedom. Just, you know, go by [01:06:00] the rule book.

[01:06:00] Kyle Risi: I don't think she can function like competently as an adult on her own. I think that might be part of the reason.

[01:06:05] But as recently as 2025, Adam, she's been rearrested again this time because God had told her to go feed the ducks at a local park.

[01:06:13] And so that violated her.

[01:06:14] Adam Cox: What did be say, do not go to the park

[01:06:18] Kyle Risi: finally after their convictions, Elizabeth's life doesn't just return back to normal. It becomes something completely different entirely. She starts the Elizabeth Smart Foundation where she ends up traveling around [01:06:30] speaking to different audiences.

[01:06:31] And the core message is never be afraid to speak out. Never be afraid to live your life and never let your past dictate your future.

[01:06:39] Mm-hmm.

[01:06:39] Which are all things really connected to what she's going through. Because for a long time, remember she and her family after she returned, they were petrified to lead any kind of normal life again after what had happened.

[01:06:51] Like they'd let all these people in due to their generosity and their charity, and someone ended up betraying them in the most awful way by literally kidnapping their [01:07:00] child.

[01:07:00] Adam Cox: Yeah. It's almost like they've been stung. Mm-hmm. Through the generosity. But then I kind of think like all the good things they probably did do and the people they helped, and then there's just this one. Exactly idiot. That basically screws it up. And that's a real shame considering they seem like very good people.

[01:07:15] Yes. Seem like, you know, they, they live up to their name. Elizabeth was very smart mm-hmm. When she was kidnapped, so that's a shame.

[01:07:22] Kyle Risi: Her message wasn't only about like surviving something horrific, it was about refusing to let it take over everything that came afterwards.

[01:07:29] Mm-hmm. [01:07:30] Which is kind of more of a reminder to her parents as well, basically.

[01:07:34] But her message also included practical advice for parents, which was to make sure that your children know that they are loved unconditionally, but most importantly, that they understand what unconditional actually means.

[01:07:45] She says that she was afraid to speak up about what had happened to her for that very reason.

[01:07:50] The thought of how her family and her community might view her afterwards made her question, whether or not she even wanted to be rescued at all.

[01:07:57] Adam Cox: I'm assuming they were understanding [01:08:00] given, of

[01:08:00] Kyle Risi: course they were. Of course they were, but she didn't know the meaning of what unconditional love meant. Of course, her parents are not going to, and many people in her community aren't. Yeah. But as, a community in general with their values that they adhere to and how they believe it'll reflect personally on you made her question that, which is horrible,

[01:08:16] Adam Cox: I guess.

[01:08:16] Yeah. If you take the teachings as gospel then yeah. Maybe

[01:08:20] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[01:08:20] Adam Cox: You wouldn't know that,

[01:08:21] Kyle Risi: so it'd be great if we could just have some clarity that asterisk. Yeah.

[01:08:25] And so part of her work also involves challenging some of those beliefs that she grew up with, especially around [01:08:30] purity. Which is one reason sex education for minors has been such a contentious issue in that side of the country. And when it is taught, it's often like through an abstinence only lens. Mm-hmm. So like, ah, you don't need to know about these things. You don't need to know how to put a condom on, just don't have sex.

[01:08:44] Adam Cox: And this is why in Family Guy they ended up having sex in the ear.

[01:08:47] Kyle Risi: So you know what they say, once you go black,

[01:08:49] Adam Cox: you go deaf, you go deaf

[01:08:51] Kyle Risi: Did we not do an episode of all the latest things where young kids from the Mormon community were having sex in the armpit.

[01:08:59] Adam Cox: Yes. I [01:09:00] can't remember if they were in the Mormons, but people were having sex in the armpit. And the reason they found out.

[01:09:04] Kyle Risi: Was because they kept getting CIC ly in there, arm in the armpits.

[01:09:08] Adam Cox: God, yeah. Still have protected sex in the armpit.

[01:09:11] Kyle Risi: But still, like, these attitudes towards sex are not healthy. Like by forcing down abstinence only kind of roots doesn't really help because you end up just finding a way around, which still leaves you uneducated in what you're doing. Right?

[01:09:25] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[01:09:25] Kyle Risi: Armpits, armpit grabs. And so the results of the stigma for many [01:09:30] victims of sexual assault, because regardless of the nature of what's happened, purity is treated like something you can lose through any sexual act forced or otherwise. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So Elizabeth's advocacy pushes for serious national conversations about how people in the USA talk to kids about sexuality consent and also blame elizabeth's work doesn't just stop at the speeches though, because she becomes instrumental Adam in pushing Congress into initiating new legislation, including the National [01:10:00] Sex Offenders Register in America, which they didn't really have.

[01:10:03] Adam Cox: Really?

[01:10:04] Kyle Risi: Yeah. No way.

[01:10:05] It also helps to push forward the Adam Morsch Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006, which gives social workers access to a national crime database and allows that information to be shared more effectively between different agencies.

[01:10:19] And she points to Brian's history as a reason why this matters. Because before he had married Wonder, remember he was married to that other woman where he was routinely sexually assaulting her children. If that database had existed [01:10:30] back then, authorities might have even caught him long before he even kidnapped Elizabeth.

[01:10:35] Adam Cox: It also seems kind of crazy that these things weren't in place in the early two thousands. I feel like they've been in place since the nineties And it's great that at least Elizabeth has, pushed forward with that. Mm-hmm. And helped change America.

[01:10:45] Kyle Risi: She's also become an author of two books.

[01:10:47] The first was My story released in 2013, and the second was Where's The Hope, which came out in 2018. And basically the Books Center on Resilience, and also the great work that [01:11:00] she's done since.

[01:11:01] But on the 21st of January, 2026, literally the day after this episode airs, Netflix is releasing a documentary called Kidnapped Elizabeth Smart.

[01:11:12] Adam Cox: Ah. So they're covering it. It was only a matter of time.

[01:11:15] Kyle Risi: It was only a matter of time.

[01:11:17] And basically it covers the entire story it features Elizabeth's narration, it includes interviews with the family and investigators possibly some interviews of Elizabeth after she'd been rescued. Who knows? But [01:11:30] definitely I think there's also footage of Richard Reese in his interrogation, but I wonder if there'll be any footage of Brian.

[01:11:37] Adam Cox: I suspect there will be. Right? I hope so. Yeah.

[01:11:40] Kyle Risi: Elizabeth says that the thing she most wants the documentary to focus on isn't what happened to her, but the survival and the resilience So others can basically take something from it rather than just being a documentary about a terrible thing that happened to her, basically. Which I think is good. At least it serves a purpose and comes with a message.

[01:11:56] Adam Cox: I think so, because I think if anyone gets kidnapped or goes missing, [01:12:00] people automatically assume the worst. And I appreciate that, uh, statistically that can happen.

[01:12:05] But Elizabeth is a sign that, you know, don't give up hope E

[01:12:08] Kyle Risi: And that seems to be the message that she's carried since she got rescued and started advocating. Yeah. Good for her.

[01:12:14] But before we end, I do wanna just give a quick nod to Mary Catherine, Mike. She's a huge hero in this story. If it wasn't for her, remembering that voice, Elizabeth May have never come home.

[01:12:25] Adam Cox: I really want to hear if Bryant is in this documentary, what he sounds like. 'cause for a little [01:12:30] girl, just to remember this stranger's voice.

[01:12:32] That's incredible.

[01:12:33] Kyle Risi: For sure.

[01:12:34] And Adam, that is the story of the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart.

[01:12:39] Adam Cox: That is pretty wild. And also I'm happy that it's a happy ending.

[01:12:44] Kyle Risi: Yeah. I mean, awful things happen to her. Yes. Yeah. But she's alive and she's recovering

[01:12:49] Adam Cox: and she's, she's

[01:12:50] Kyle Risi: dealing with the trauma

[01:12:51] Adam Cox: and she's helping others and so that, and she's helping others. That's where I'm saying, yeah, it's happy. There's a positive, I guess, at the end of it. But yeah, those other two people, they can just [01:13:00] rot in wherever they are.

[01:13:01] I wonder if Mary was really like annoying being like, uh, it was down to me. Is that the reason? But you Yeah. If they ever fought afterwards, it'd be like, it's down to me that you're back here. You know? Yeah.

[01:13:13] Kyle Risi: I could send you straight back. God, Brian. Oh God.

[01:13:17] Anyways, that's a bit dark. Should we, uh, should we run the outro for this week? Let's do it.

[01:13:23] And that brings us to the end of another fascinating foray into the compendium and assembly of fascinating things. We hope you enjoyed the ride as [01:13:30] much as we did and before we, today we have some new Patreon members we would like to welcome to the fold,

[01:13:37] but also HR have insisted that we start promoting certified freaks and big top tier members to roles within the circus. Basically, Adam has complained to HR that he's the one doing all the work around here, which legally OSHA say we can't keep letting happen, basically.

[01:13:54] Adam Cox: Yeah, that's right. So we'd like to officially welcome our newest certified Freak [01:14:00] recruits. They are Jessica Sue. Our Foghorn synchronized Blast Timing technician.

[01:14:06] Kyle Risi: Yet we have, uh, simply Samantha, our Bureau Chief of Rogue Circ Prop Containments, Kaitlyn Conroy, our trapeze Chalk allocation

[01:14:15] Adam Cox: Specialist. Y

[01:14:16] Kyle Risi: Tara Sutton, our keeper of the

[01:14:18] Adam Cox: compendiums, misleading floor signs, and Michael Zuki, our interim Cannonball trajectory. Ethics reviewer. Very important role. Very.

[01:14:27] Kyle Risi: And we've also got a big top tier member to welcome to the fold. [01:14:30] That is kiera Blee, our executive director of Multi-Cloud Scheduling Catastrophe.

[01:14:35] Adam Cox: There are a lot of them, and as always, these roles are yours and yours alone. So nobody else does what you do.

[01:14:41] Kyle Risi: Nobody. I checked for duplicates. Triple checked, quadruple checked. Nobody else has these roles.

[01:14:47] Adam Cox: But in a classic compendium circus, clerical disaster, HR has somehow lost everyone's job descriptions. Again. Again. And we desperately need them back on file.

[01:14:58] Kyle Risi: So here's what we're gonna need from [01:15:00] you guys. Click the HR job description link in the show notes, and tell us what your role actually involves. We wanna know what your duties are, who you report to. What are the most unhinged incidents that you've had to deal with on shift?

[01:15:15] And crucially tell us. How are you performing against your KPIs?

[01:15:20] Adam Cox: And over the coming weeks, we'll be handing out roles to all of our certified freaks and big tops. But if you're impatient and want your role right now, then just DM us on [01:15:30] Patreon or Instagram and we'll assign you one immediately so you can get going on your job descriptions.

[01:15:34] Kyle Risi: Because nothing says legitimate organization like paperwork created under pressure. And yes, we'll read the best ones in a future episode.

[01:15:43] Adam Cox: So guys, don't forget we drop new episodes every Tuesday

[01:15:47] Kyle Risi: until then, remember, the loudest prophet is often just the smallest man in a bigger costume.

[01:15:53] We'll see you next time.

[01:15:54] See ya. [01:16:00]