Ed Gein: Monster, Murderer, and the Real Story Behind Hollywood’s Nightmares

Ed Gein: Monster, Murderer, and the Real Story Behind Hollywood’s Nightmares

Adam [New]: [00:00:00] Edward Theodore Ghen. He's a quiet, polite man. The kind of guy that neighbors would say it's a bit odd, never a threat.

The thing is, he would turn out to be one of the most infamous serial killers who inspired fiction and some of the most notorious horror movies.

Kyle [New]: Yes. Didn't he like Inspire Texas Chainsaw Massacre?

Adam [New]: Henry's body is laid on the scorched earth, but seemed like it was untouched by fire. There were no burns on his skin and his clothes were in intact. The coroner ruled the death by asphyxiation but Henry had some odd bruises on his head

Kyle [New]: So what we're saying is we think that Gein has murdered him.

Adam [New]: and the

Officers secure a warrant to head to his farm it's still night at this point, so it's dark and it's cold . The barn door is slightly ajar,

he steps inside first. And he bumps into something swinging. He flicks on his torch. Oh no. And freezes. It's a body hanging there, headless.

[00:01:00] In the middle of the kitchen, they hear rats scurrying around and along the countertops

the worst is yet to come Kyle, because lurking in the shadows are secrets far darker than anyone could have imagined.

Kyle [New]: This is too much like a horror movie already, like I can see it.

Adam [New]: Welcome to the Compendium, an Assembly of fascinating things, a weekly variety podcast that gives you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering.

Kyle [New]: We explore stories from the darker corners of true crime, the hidden gems of [00:02:00] history, and the jaw dropping deeds of extraordinary people.

Adam [New]: I'm your ringmaster for this week, Adam Cox.

Kyle [New]: And I am Kyle Reese, your resident. Circus census taker for this week.

Adam [New]: A census taker. Surely, surely. We don't need that.

Kyle [New]: No, we do. I have to count all the clowns coming out the car.

Adam [New]: And how many are there?

Kyle [New]: Uh, well I can only count to five famously, so. Okay. And there's a hell of a lot more than five. That's all I can tell.

Adam [New]: You have two hands. That's surely you can have two lots of five at least.

Kyle [New]: Yeah, but then that's math I can't even do, man. That's, that's math I just can't do.

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Kyle [New]: That's right. And for as little as $3 a month, you'll become a fellow freak of the show, unlocking our entire back catalog log, including classic episodes like, ooh. Need one quick.

Come on.

Adam [New]: Classic Kyle,

Kyle [New]: [00:03:00] um, classic. Ooh, the JT LeRoi story. Ah, yes. That one, one of my absolute favorites. And it gets like one of the worst number of downloads. I think we need to change the title of that one.

Adam [New]: People Vote with Their Downloads, Kyle,

Kyle [New]: but it's such an amazing story. I think wasn't there in there At one point he was having to fax these stories to his editor because he was so scared that someone was gonna steal his fax machine, that he chained it around his leg and it was apparently sending it from a public bathroom somewhere because they had an ethernet port for 'em to plug into, in order to send the facts Wait in the bathroom, in the public toilet.

I don't remember that at all. Oh, I know it was ages ago, but it's one of my favorite stories of all time and I've tried to republish it and promote it and, people just don't give a shit about it. It's because of the title. JT Leroy. We need to change that. People are like, why do I care about that?

I used to be like, facts. Boy, I,

Adam [New]: I dunno if that's better, but you know, think about it.

Kyle [New]: Okay. So yeah, that is our back catalog of classic compendium episodes [00:04:00] all waiting for you on our Patreon.

Adam [New]: Yes. And as a special thank you, our certified freak tier members now receive an exclusive compendium key chain.

All you need to do is just DM us your address and we'll send one straight to your door so we can always be there

Kyle [New]: dangling near your crotch.

Adam [New]: I do, you know what? We still need some merch with that. We need to get that out for Christmas.

Kyle [New]: I have been contacted by a merch company. Ah, so we could just have like crotch emblazoned on it.

Adam [New]: Dunno if that's gonna like catch on, but yeah, let's go for it. It might

Kyle [New]: do. And also we still need other words for crotch, right? We've got cloth, but that's all we have so far. Yeah, there's gusset

Adam [New]: We need our listeners to write in

Kyle [New]: what is the the term that Joey uses when, uh, Chandler is like struggling to find a good idea for a Valentine's Day president and he's like, just grab a pair of panties and take out, and he says that word crush his panties.

Yeah, but he says something else, right? He doesn't call it crutch list. Yeah, I think he does. Oh, does he? I'm sure you used like a different word. Not like gusset, but something [00:05:00] else.

Adam [New]: No,

Kyle [New]: no. God. We're gross.

And lastly, guys, please follow us on your favorite podcasting app and leave us a review. I promise you your support really does help others keep finding our show. And we can continue to tell these amazing stories.

Adam [New]: Okay. So enough of the housekeeping, Kyle, it's time to dive headfirst into today's story. Mm-hmm. So today on the compendium, we are diving into an assembly of obsessive fixation, human skin suits, and an IKEA collection you won't find in a catalog anytime soon.

Kyle [New]: What? So ski? Oh, we do like silence of the labs. That's the only thing I can think of when it comes to, uh, skin suits.

Adam [New]: Yeah. You've uh, you are on the the money. You're close to it anyway. Yeah.

Kyle [New]: I mean,

This is not the first time that we've talked about wearing skin. Do you remember, I think it was the Chernobyl episode when the guys were so overcome with radiation poisoning, like their skin on their legs would just come off like socks.

Mm-hmm. Gross. And I think also actually in the [00:06:00] miracle of the Andes episode, a similar vibe. 'Cause they didn't have any shoes, right. Uh, to handle the snow. What some of them were doing is they were taking the skin. Off of some of the corpses they were lying around and they were using those as insulation for socks and stuff.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Well, I guess there's two very different stories there. This one is a lot more sadistic, I'd say.

Kyle [New]: Okay. I'm living for it actually. Yeah. No. Yes. Let's go.

Adam [New]: Okay.

So today our story is set in Plainfield, Wisconsin, which has a population of around 700 people. So it's not exactly the kind of place you'd expect a nightmare to unfold yet here lives. Edward Theodore Ghen. He's a quiet, polite man. The kind of guy that neighbors would say it's a bit odd, never a threat.

Kyle [New]: Mm-hmm. But

Adam [New]: the thing is, he would turn out to be one of the most infamous serial killers who inspired fiction and some of the most notorious horror movies.

Kyle [New]: Yes. Didn't he like Inspire Texas Chainsaw Massacre? I think also, what's that one with that weird guy [00:07:00] who was really obsessed with his mum?

Adam [New]: Psycho?

Kyle [New]: Psycho? Who was the guy? Was it Norman Bates?

Adam [New]: Norman Bates, yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Kyle [New]: Oh

Adam [New]: yeah. So you pretty much just named the three movies that you did inspire. So yeah,

Kyle [New]: I named three,

Adam [New]: oh, you mentioned about Silence of the Lambs.

Kyle [New]: He inspired that as well? Yeah. Oh, interesting. I had no idea, but to be fair, I don't know a huge amount about Ed Guy.

The only thing I know about him is from the quote from American Psycho, where Patrick Bateman. He's like in the bar somewhere and he's like, did you know like what Ed Gein said about women? And then Van Patton is like, what Ed Gein? What? Who is he? He's like he, the maitre d of like the, the canal bar.

Because of course the main theme of the show is about mistaken identity. So that runs through it. But like Bateman goes, no serial killer Wisconsin, 1950. And then Van Patton's like, so what did Ed say? And then Bateman goes, when I see a pretty girl walking down the street, I think two things. Part of me wants to take her home, treat her real nice, talk to her real good, treat her sweet, you know, all those things.

And then Van Patton's, like, what does the other part think? [00:08:00] And then Bateman goes what a head would look like on a stick. Which is pretty gruesome.

Adam [New]: It is, yeah.

Kyle [New]: But that's all I know about him. And of course the fact that he was a serial killer. So actually I'm really excited today to find out a bit more about. How he inspired three of probably the greatest horror movies because they all seem so different from each other. So how does parts of his life inspire three very different movies?

Adam [New]: Well, I get it. We're gonna get into that. But first thing, I think his name's actually Ed Geen.

Not Ed Gein.

Kyle [New]: Oh, did I say Ed Gein?

Adam [New]: Yeah.

Kyle [New]: Is it Ed Gein or Ed Gein.

Adam [New]: Ed Gein. It's kind of a weird sound. What are your

Kyle [New]: sources on that, Adam?

Adam [New]: Um, well, the other podcasts I've listened to in my research and documentaries, they all pronounce it Geen.

Kyle [New]: Is there a possibility that they could be wrong?

Adam [New]: They could be. Mm-hmm. It might be Gein, but I'm pretty sure it's Guen.

Kyle [New]: It is a weird name.

Adam [New]: Guen or Gein? Yeah. We're gonna probably end up calling him both names.

Kyle [New]: Well, I'm just gonna call him what I know,

Adam [New]: Gein. Okay, fine.

So we're gonna find out why he obviously inspired those [00:09:00] movies. But what we're also gonna find out is how his childhood, shaped him. So there's the whole sort of story of nature versus nurture and all that sort of stuff. Well, in gain's case, he had a domineering mother who preached the innate sin of women, and a drunken father who vanished too soon.

Kyle [New]: Okay. Yeah. So, yeah. That's, that's interesting. So a domineering mother.

Adam [New]: A very domineering mother. But, the thing is, did his upbringing set him on his murderous path?

Kyle [New]: I mean, very often it does.

Adam [New]: So buckle up because today on the compendium we are telling the story of Ed Geen, the original monster, and more commonly known as the butcher of playing field.

So if you are just the slightest bit squeamish, then this is your friendly public service announcement to maybe try another one of our episodes.

Um, oh,

Kyle [New]: should I go now then? No, because

Adam [New]: Like me, you are morbidly curious and so you are in for a treat.

Kyle [New]: Okay, let's do this, Adam.

Adam [New]: Okay, so it's the morning of November the 16th, [00:10:00] 1957. We are in Plainfield, Wisconsin. Uh, it doesn't actually feel like a town, to be honest. It feels more like a scatter of farms that are stitched together by a single street.

There's About 700 people who live there. Uh, everyone knows everyone. So, news travels faster in this town. Mm-hmm. it's also the kind of place where you leave your doors probably unlocked because Yeah. You know, everyone, it feels pretty safe in the grand scheme of things.

Kyle [New]: Is not South Africa.

Adam [New]: Yeah.

So whilst a small town, it has all the basics, like a grocery store, a hardware store, a barber shop, a post office. So yeah, everything you kind of need. The town has seen its fair share of harsh winters, cyclones even. Mm-hmm. And even a violent lynch mob back in 1853. But none of that, not even the storms would leave a scar as deep as what one man did in the mid 20th century. And his name is Ed Gein.

So it's the first day of dear season, and by dawn, the woods are full of hunters. Most of the men are out in the countryside with rifles slung over their shoulders. It's one of the days where the town is eerily [00:11:00] quiet more so than usual.

On the outskirts of playing field, there's Ed Geen and he's finishing his breakfast inside a filthy, crumbling farmhouse. The air is thick, it's sour, it stinks. It hits the back of your throat if you were to go in. But for edgy, he barely notices. He's living in his own filth, essentially. Yeah, he's

Kyle [New]: been living in it. You get used to it.

Adam [New]: Yeah. He pulls on a jacket, he props on his deer hunting cap, and he steps outside. Uh, he's about five seven, uh, around 140 pounds. He's got a big forehead, floppy ears. Um, he's got this kind of weird distant look in his eyes, and so locals say like, yeah, he's an odd guy. He's a, yeah. Bit of a character, but he's harmless.

Kyle [New]: Sounds like you're describing Beavis from beavers and butt.

Adam [New]: A little bit. Yeah.

Kyle [New]: Oh God, that forehead unfortunate. Okay, so he has put on his hunting cap. He's heading out for the day. Is he going deer hunting?

Adam [New]: He is not actually, he's getting into his car and he's driving into town. He heads over to Warden's hardware store.

Mm-hmm. And it's on the east side of town. [00:12:00] There's a woman, Bernice Warden who, you know, the store is named after, uh, she's the owner. She's behind the counter. She's 58 years old. She's tough as nails and she loves fishing.

Kyle [New]: Mm-hmm.

Adam [New]: Her son, Frank, he's playing field's deputy sheriff, and he is out hunting today.

Kyle [New]: Okay. With the rest of the town.

Adam [New]: With the rest of the town. So it's just Bernice at the store. So Ed takes a visit. He's known Bernice for years. He's always been asking her out. He's going to like the roller skate rink, uh, the movies go dancing, but she never says yes.

Kyle [New]: I mean, she's 58 years old.

Mm-hmm. Is he comparable in age? He's

Adam [New]: in his, I think either thirties or forties at this point. Oh.

Kyle [New]: So he's really chasing after an older, more experienced woman.

Adam [New]: Yes. Oh, interesting. Yes. And you'll, we'll get onto perhaps why he's, he's taken a sudden shine.

Kyle [New]: It's because he wants to be the deputy Sheriff's new Stepdaddy.

Adam [New]: That, isn't it? Anyway, so he's been, you know, trying his luck trying to go on a date with her for quite a while. She has never said yes, but he keeps trying. He sometimes brushes it off [00:13:00] as a joke, maybe, I dunno, to

Kyle [New]: playing hard to get,

Adam [New]: yeah, maybe that's it. But today he goes to the store and he wants some antifreeze, so he pours it into a glass jug. He pays, he thanks her politely and he heads out the store.

But then he heads back into the shop just a few minutes later

Kyle [New]: to ask her out on a date.

Adam [New]: He actually asks her, could he see one of the rifles on the wall?

Kyle [New]: All that?

Adam [New]: Yeah. Bernice turns around and she's about to grab it. And Ants, she does, ed lifts a rifle of his own, which he's holding in his hand.

He quietly cocks it. He slides a shell from his pocket. And he pulls the trigger. Whilst Bernice is looking away from him, so right in the back of her head or her back, I can't remember which.

Kyle [New]: Does he do this to kill her? Is she dead?

Adam [New]: Well, she collapses behind the counter.

And she is dead.

Kyle [New]: Shit, I thought he liked her, but to be fair, some people have very different ways of showing their interest. Expressing, yeah.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Shit, that's dark. She, yeah. She's outta there, ed checks to make sure she's not moving. Mm-hmm. Uh, then as cool as anything, he just locks up the store. He doesn't wanna be [00:14:00] disturbed. He tips over the cash register because he wants to make it look like it's a robbery that's gone wrong.

And then he drags bernice's body out the back of the store, leaving a clear trail of blood, essentially, all the way to his truck, which he then loads her into. And then he drives off.

Kyle [New]: This is too much like a horror movie already, like I can see it. And he doesn't clear up the blood?

Adam [New]: No, he is, he's gotta get out of there.

Kyle [New]: Well, he's definitely gonna be busted.

Adam [New]: It's 40 minutes later and he's back at his farmhouse. Mm-hmm. And he hangs up beneath his body in the barn. This is where it's gonna get a bit, Cory,

Kyle [New]: right? Okay.

Adam [New]: He first decapitates Bernice

Kyle [New]: shit.

Adam [New]: Then with a butcher's precision, he slices her open from collarbone to pubic bone.

Kyle [New]: God,

Adam [New]: he removes her genitals and her rectum.

Kyle [New]: Oh,

Adam [New]: why her

Kyle [New]: rectum?

Adam [New]: He's basically just gutting her out, which is probably not the right terminology, but he's draining her body full of blood and washes out the body and then hooks it back up to then dry like a piece [00:15:00] of meat.

Kyle [New]: But you very specifically said he's removed her anus and that's the kind of thing you do when you're preparing a chicken and you don't eat the anus bit. Is he going to eat her?

Adam [New]: No. Oh,

Kyle [New]: say more stuff.

Adam [New]: Okay. So he's hung Bernice up to dry. Later that day it's around 5:00 PM and Frank Warden at Bernice's son. he Heads back to the store, obviously to go see his mom, check in on her, but then he sees that the store's lights are on, but the door is locked, which doesn't make sense. Yeah. And there's no sign of his mother. So he grabs his spare key and he steps inside and he sees straight away that there's blood on the floor and a lot of it. And it's leading out the back, straight away he calls the sheriff and says, I think Ed Gein did this.

Kyle [New]: Oh. So he's making that assumption pretty damn quickly. What makes him think it was Ed Gein?

Adam [New]: He doesn't mince his words to the sheriff. He says, ed was acting strange yesterday asking where I'd be during hunting season.

Okay. So perhaps trying to sense his whereabouts. Yeah, yeah. Uh, he's always been weirdly [00:16:00] obsessed with his mom, constantly asking her out. Okay. Number two. Yeah. And then number three, probably the proof that he was there that day is that there's a receipt for antifreeze with Ed's name on it.

Kyle [New]: Is it on, like, on account?

Adam [New]: I'm not sure if that's, I dunno how they did receipts back then, but maybe that's how they just wrote it out as a receipt to say, yeah, you bought antifreeze. But either way, he's left that receipt there. Yeah. And so kind of a bit of a rookie mistake because he probably should have taken that with, him.

Meanwhile, just outside of town, a teenager named Bob Hill and his sister Darlene, they basically break down just in front of Ed's place, his farmhouse. . And so they go to, ed and say,

can he help push the car or get them to the gas station? Ed agrees to help them out. But the thing is, he's covered in blood at this point, which he invites them inside while he's washing up.

Ooh. And it

Kyle [New]: stinks in there.

Adam [New]: Yeah. And the brother and sister, they're uncomfortable because they're like, what? What is all that blood that's on you? And he's like, well, I've been dressing a deer, which kinda makes sense. It's deer season. [00:17:00] Mm-hmm. He could have just killed a deer that day

Kyle [New]: and they're going, ah, that explains the smell.

Adam [New]: Possibly. We'll get into what his place looked like later.

Kyle [New]: Yeah. Stinks of as in here, oh, there's a bucket of human anus just there in the corner.

Adam [New]: So yeah, so that's how he kind of covers it up at the least at that point in time. So he gives them a lift and he helps Bob install a new battery into his car.

And he then accepts an invite to dinner, at his family's house. Mm-hmm. To say thank you.

Kyle [New]: Sure. It's kind of like the All American kind of small community thing to do, like everyone knows each other. Stay for dinner.

Adam [New]: Yeah.

Kyle [New]: Not have us for dinner. Stay for dinner Ed.

Yeah.

Adam [New]: So Ed stays for dinner. And it gets to about 7:00 PM when the door bursts open. And a guy called Jim Roman, uh, comes in. And he basically announces Bernice warden's missing and there's blood all over the hardware store.

And so Ed, he barely reacts, to be honest. He keeps, I guess, trying to keep cool, maybe, obviously not let on that. He obviously knows what's happened.

Kyle [New]: He's just chewing on his chicken anus.

Adam [New]: I think they probably have potatoes or something,

Kyle [New]: Chewing [00:18:00] on his potato.

Adam [New]: Um, so Bob, one of the teenagers, he basically says, oh, he wants to join the search, does his bit, and he asks Ed, uh, for a lift to get him into town. Mm-hmm. Or somewhere, wherever they got the search going. So Ed agrees to do that and they go outside.

Meanwhile, Irene, the mom, she goes back to running the store when two state troopers walk in and they ask for Ed Geen.

She points them around the back and say, yeah, they're just on the driveway. Mm-hmm. And they see Ed there and they start asking him questions straight away. Ed fumbles through a story contradicting himself multiple times.

Kyle [New]: What does he say?

Adam [New]: I dunno what he's necessarily told at that point, but I'm guessing they've asked where his whereabouts were. And he is obviously said this, that and the other, which perhaps don't add up. But then he blurts out. Somebody framed me and they're like, oh, for what? Well, you jumped to that break damn quick, didn't you?

Yeah. And then he goes, oh, for Mrs. Warden, she's dead. Right. But the thing is no one knew that for a fact yet, and no one really knew where, Bernice was.

Kyle [New]: Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, no one said anything about [00:19:00] anyone being dead. Exactly.

Adam [New]: So you might as well have just been wearing a t-shirt that said I did it.

Kyle [New]: So I need to ask a clarifying question about the timeline here. Are we at the point where he's about to get busted or are we at the beginning of his kidding spree?

Adam [New]: Don't wanna spoil it. Yeah.

Kyle [New]: Oh God. It feels like he's gonna be busted and then all of the horrors are just gonna come to light.

Adam [New]: Keep listening. Okay. You'll, you'll see, so Ed Gein, he's arrested because he sounds dodgy as well. Dodgy as they come.

And the officers then secure a warrant to head to his farm to then start obviously looking around. Mm-hmm. Um, it's still night at this point, so it's dark and it's cold and there's snow on the ground. Ooh. They're gonna bump into a lot of anuses. Well, the barn door is slightly ajar, uhhuh, and there's a guy called Captain Arthur Sle, I think his name is.

He steps inside first. Mm-hmm. And he bumps into something swinging. He flicks on his torch. Oh no. And freezes. It's a body hanging there, headless.

Kyle [New]: So that is benice.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Although they don't know that yet because No. Without a head. But

Kyle [New]: we know that [00:20:00] that's Benice.

Adam [New]: Mm-hmm. That's right. So what they obviously are inspecting the carcass. 'cause that's the way I can, I think you can call it at this point. 'Cause the flesh has been sliced, the blood drained. And lea he, he stumbles backward and he is vomiting into the snow. Mm-hmm. 'Cause he just didn't expect to see this.

Kyle [New]: No. Who does?

Adam [New]: His colleague has the same reaction Really? And so both of them, sit on the hood of their car and just smoke in silence trying to process what they've just seen.

Kyle [New]: Okay. You forget that there are other times to smoke as well, not just after sex. Do you know what I mean?

Adam [New]: Yeah.

With a coffee. Yeah. When you see a dead body, see a dead body

Kyle [New]: chilling out on your car with your police partner. Yeah. Okay. So there's other times. This is good to know.

Adam [New]: Yeah. I think they're just trying to obviously settle their nerves, compose themselves and probably brace themselves for what they're about to have to go and I dunno, what are they gonna find next?

Kyle [New]: But what are they gonna do? Surely they just go and call the police and get the FBI in.

Adam [New]: Well, um, they return to the barn and they examine the body, which of course they don't know is beneath at [00:21:00] this point. Mm-hmm. Um, because it's, it's strung up like a, a deer carcass and

Kyle [New]: she's missing her head.

Adam [New]: Her, yeah. Inside's a gone, her head is missing and they're

Kyle [New]: like, I can't recognize this body.

Adam [New]: But the thing is, the worst is yet to come Kyle, because they haven't even stepped foot into the farmhouse and in there lurking in the shadows are secrets far darker than anyone could have imagined.

Okay, so what do you make of that?

Kyle [New]: Well, you haven't said anything. All you just said is like, there's gonna be some big shit in there. Was it like buckets and buckets and buckets of anuses? Clearly I'm not gonna let that go throughout so forever. Yeah. I'm kind of

Adam [New]: just blanking over that now.

Kyle [New]: What do you mean? What do I make of that? Yeah, you tell me what's next.

Adam [New]: Alright. Well, so far all we know is that Ed has killed Bernice. We have no idea why yet It seems premeditated. Of course he may have had a weird obsession with Bernice, because of how Frank suspects him straight away. Yeah. And when the police find Ed, he sounds guilty straight away.

Mm-hmm. And so he's perhaps not the most intelligent and why has he been doing all [00:22:00] this? Well, to find out why this has happened, we have to go back to the very beginning when Ed was just a twinkle in his father's eye. A second twisted twinkle, but a twinkle nonetheless.

Kyle [New]: Okay, so just to clarify, we are pretty much at the point in the story where he gets busted and now we're going right back to the beginning.

Adam [New]: That's right.

Kyle [New]: Okay. This is so good. What a brilliant setup.

Adam [New]: So we're gonna start with his father. Mm-hmm. His father is called George Geen and he was orphaned at three when His family's wagon got caught in a flash flood and his mom, dad, and his baby sister were all taken by the flood and were drowned in seconds.

Kyle [New]: When he as a 3-year-old, he was just, he was just fine. He was well found days later,

Adam [New]: I dunno if he was staying with someone else because after that he then went to stay with his grandparents.

Mm-hmm. Um, he had quite a quiet childhood or so it seemed, but throughout life it said that George was a bit of a loser, just a guy who failed to keep jobs and turned to heavy drinking. But his trauma from his childhood probably really stuck with him. 'cause when he got drunk, he'd swing between [00:23:00] feeling self pity, feeling worthless, and then basically blaming life for his bad luck and everything else.

Kyle [New]: Yeah. Shame.

Adam [New]: But at 24, there is a glimpse of happiness for George. He meets a 19-year-old woman called Augusta. Now Augusta couldn't be further from George. They say the opposites attract, but when you hear about Augusta, their relationship, doesn't really make sense.

Kyle [New]: Go on.

Adam [New]: She comes from a strict, rigid family. One of many who immigrated from Germany in 1870,

Kyle [New]: hence the name.

Adam [New]: Yeah. she's described as thick set. Um, not my words For the record,

Kyle [New]: What does that mean? Thick set?

Adam [New]: I guess Just a quite a sturdy, she chunky won't fall over in the wind.

Kyle [New]: Oh, okay. Yeah. Like she's got good working girl, like she knows how to pick up.

Pales of milk.

Adam [New]: I, I, I can only imagine. Yeah.

Kyle [New]: Yeah. You know, a good working girls set are legs where they're like sturdy. Yeah. Good German, sturdy legs.

Adam [New]: I think the thing is the family were born into hard work, so very physical labor, and also a, like a really [00:24:00] devouted, uh, Lutheran Christians. Sure.

Kyle [New]: Okay.

Adam [New]: Um, her father enforced, this really strict upbringing with regular beatings, and so that all kind of rubbed off on Augusta in terms of how she would then become to be. She was outraged by any hint of loose morals, especially from women. So if she caught another woman showing a glimpse of an ankle, she was a whore.

Kyle [New]: Of course. It's the time, 'cause like the twenties came round and then it was like all of a sudden a little bit more socially acceptable to start showing a bit more leg. So like, like a calf? No, no. Got up to the knees.

Ooh, right. Ooh. A bit of knee now. Bit of knee action and then like to really accentuate knees, women of the twenties started putting rouge on their knees like a little bit of red rouge. Hence why from the song Chicago Got a Rouge My Knees, I dunno the lyrics, but it's one of the lyrics that are in there where they say rouge monies and that is basically putting makeup on your knees.

Adam [New]: Is that because they were [00:25:00] all dirty from all the blow jobs they were giving

Kyle [New]: Adam, this is why me and you are together. It's the very first thing I thought. I was like, oh, dirty bitches. Chicago's set in a prison. Yeah. That is not red. Rouge on their knees. It's blood, it's bruises from all the bro chops they'd be giving to the guards.

Adam [New]: It's, yeah. That's the alternative cut I think that we've seen. Get me

Kyle [New]: in that woman's prison.

Adam [New]: So Augusta, she was this right domineering, self-righteous woman. So hardly the life of any party, and yet George fell in love, or at least was drawn to her. Mm-hmm. Um, maybe she pushed him and gave him more structure. Something he was lacking in life,

Kyle [New]: or maybe she was really good wrapping her legs around his neck and just squeezing with those good German sturdy working woman legs

Adam [New]: no, she definitely didn't do that. Okay. You'll see why. But maybe George's self-worth and being a bit of a pushover was enough for [00:26:00] Augusta. She could control him or influence him. Maybe no one else could even stand to be in Augusta's presence long enough. And so she felt superior to everyone, essentially. Yeah. So one thing led to another, and they married on December the 11th, 1900.

George worked periodically as a carpenter, a tanner, a farmer, but struggled with alcohol abuse, which increasingly worsened over the years. Augusta being the woman she was. She belittled George, calling him a lazy dog.

Kyle [New]: Oh,

Adam [New]: Once Augusta learned that George was spending his wages at a bar, uh, she basically blew the roof off, because her disappointment snapped in full blown contempt.

George would react by withdrawing given Augusta hours and even days of icy silence. So the two just don't really seem like they're made for each other.

Kyle [New]: Possibly.

Adam [New]: Possibly. So Augusta was had enough of him and, and she would actually prey on her knees begging for God to take her husband's life.

Kyle [New]: And was her knees ro [00:27:00] what is wrong with me?

Adam [New]: I dunno. But anyway, of course divorce was not an option. Being a devout Christian and with God not listening to augusta's prayers and striking George down in his prime. The next best option, of course, was a fix it baby.

Kyle [New]: Yes, we have problems. Let's have a baby. Yeah, exactly.

But it's weird that it's coming from, Augusta.

Adam [New]: Well, I think she still wanted to be a mother, perhaps, but the thing is she loathed sex, not just premarital any kind of sex. Disgusted her,

Kyle [New]: really? Is it from a religious point of view or did she have something medically wrong with her?

Adam [New]: I think it's this religious point of view, and also she, you know, she didn't like women , showing themselves off mm-hmm.

Fornicating, all sorts of things. She just did not agree with it.

Kyle [New]: Sure.

Adam [New]: So she let George do his duty.

Uh, they m it as was the best way as I could describe it. That couldn't have been easy for George because I, I just imagine Augusta there with her arms crossed and a, and a right face [00:28:00] on. And so how could anyone give her the best moves, I just imagine would be really awkward.

Kyle [New]: They are married, they have had sex.

Adam [New]: I don't know if they have, or if they have begrudgingly done it.

Kyle [New]: She was probably at least just doing what she felt like she needed to do to keep George happy. 'cause otherwise surely George wouldn't have stayed with her, right? Well,

Adam [New]: maybe initially, but then she's praying for him to die, so I don't know

Kyle [New]: how much

Adam [New]: sex she was giving him.

Kyle [New]: No. Interesting. Okay, so they've essentially mated.

Adam [New]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. George, manages to do the deed and nine months later on January the 17th, 1902, their son Henry is born. But George was a lousy parent and still couldn't hold a job, and Augusta forced him into a business and a grocery. He's basically sets up a grocery and a meat store under his name.

But he really sucks at keeping it running. So Augusta basically takes over everything, right? The bookkeeping, the management, all of it. She even changed the sign to list herself as the owner and relegated George to being basically a Clark. so yeah, she, ooh, [00:29:00] demeaning. She loved the power, I guess you could say, and just kind of taking over.

Kyle [New]: But at the same time, they are trying to raise the family together. They have a household to maintain if your husband's a bit of a deadbeat and he is not really doing what he needs to do. Mm. You kind of had a coming George. He had

Adam [New]: a coming. Yeah.

The other thing is, Augusta at this point in time doesn't really have much of a bond with her new son, Henry. She blamed it on him being a boy and she desperately wanted a girl. So yeah, she's kind of providing for her son, but she's not that warm. Mm-hmm. Or hasn't warmed to him that much yet. so to keep, Augusta happy, George agreed to have another child, and on August the 27th, 1906, Edward Theodore Geen arrived.

And Augusta wasn't best pleased because it was another boy, God, okay? It's not what she had planned, but there was a slight change in her attitude. The night she held her newborn son, she vowed that he'd be different. Not like those [00:30:00] lustful fouled mouthed men who defiled women's bodies. She wanted to protect his innocence.

And later Ed would speak, of his mother with tears in his eyes how she was this pure goodness that shaped him.

Kyle [New]: So basically he worships his mom.

Adam [New]: Mm-hmm. He remembered one day she gave him coins for town. Mm-hmm. Or going into town and he dropped them and came home in tears and she scolded him, which cut him really deep.

Kyle [New]: Oh.

Adam [New]: And says to him, you're a dreadful child. Only a mother could love you. And those words echoed in his mind. So you've got this real horrible verbal abuse yet, he idolizes his mother.

Kyle [New]: Yeah. That, that, that's strange. And that's quite a dark thing to also comprehend in some of mind as well.

It almost feels like. Like a bit of Stockholm syndrome going on there. she's completely in control of him. She's not very nice to him at times. I'm sure she's also very nice to him at other times as well. But that sounds like quite a cruel thing.

But for him to hear those words from her, you are only someone that a mother could [00:31:00] love. Maybe she's a smother. A smother, and maybe this is her way of guaranteeing that her little precious boy never gets married.

Adam [New]: That's interesting you say that. Yeah,

Kyle [New]: I I bet you that's what's gonna happen with my sister and her son. She loves her son so much that she, up until Disturbingly, until he was like 10, 11, she was like, Matthew. You're gonna marry mommy, aren't you? I wouldn't be surprised. You still says that today.

Adam [New]: I think, uh, 10 or 11. That's probably okay. Is it when he is 18? You're still saying it. That's probably not Okay.

Kyle [New]: Calling him while he is on a date

Adam [New]: time to cut the umbilical cord. Yeah, you could say that. I think. And one of his earliest memories was when he was a toddler at the top of the stairs and he slipped and he was certain he was just gonna fall, but his mother saved him, basically reached out and like pulled him back to safety.

And from that moment, he saw her as this godlike protector against the world's dangers.

Kyle [New]: I mean, that's very normal for people to have that view of their parents [00:32:00] anyway. Yeah. It's the sad reality when you start turning to a teenager and then you realize, actually my parents are just. Big kids, do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. That also don't have their shit together. He hasn't had the chance to realize that at this moment in time.

Yeah. So I get it. It's weird how that transitions from your parents being almost God-like to then just being regular people then to being quite weak and frail.

Adam [New]: Yeah. But I think, it's interesting. I don't think he ever really grew out of that though.

Kyle [New]: Well, he continues to idolize his mom for, oh, his whole life.

Adam [New]: For his entire life. Yeah. One of the things that Augusta would do, and I think this also kind of, made him behave in the way that he was because she, kind of led a very strict, household. Augusta would read to her boys daily from the Bible and she'd gather them at the kitchen table and read from the Old Testament and Revelation passages about death, murder and God's wrath.

And Ed soaked it all in. He was absorbing all of this information. And I guess this very, strict religious [00:33:00] household and the way that he was told to treat women or not go near women Sets him on this sort of slightly dark path.

Kyle [New]: Yeah. You kind of alluded to this earlier on, that a lot of the things that happened to him in his childhood really influence him as an adult. He's sitting here absorbing all these really dark, like brutal passages from the Bible revelations and probably Genesis and probably because of her really super conservative upbringing, these are the things that are actually. formulating who he is gonna be.

For us, like, yeah, sure. A lot of things that happen to us in our childhood, they influence us mold, but as we then go out into the world, we have other experiences coming in that continue to refine us.

Yeah. What I'm getting from you here is that that's not really happening. He is set. Yeah. At the time he was a teenager based on his upbringing.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Pretty much. His, all these, um, experiences as a kid and a teenager, young adult are really formative and yeah, he doesn't have much of a, an outside influence as we'll, begin to [00:34:00] learn.

Another memory, uh, that was key to Ed's development, there's a bit of a haunting memory. One that will kind of mirror what happened with Bernice. So at his parents' grocery store, he watched animals be led into a forbidden back room. Oh, and one day when no one was looking, he slipped inside and he peered through a crack and a hog was hung upside down from the ceiling by a chain, and his father had held it steady while his mother slit its belly and pulled back the flaps and eased out the glistening ropes of its bowels and into a metal tub.

Kyle [New]: Adam. Don't make that sound poetic.

Adam [New]: Alright. That was gruesome. I'm building an image. Yeah,

Kyle [New]: you painted it, but you didn't need to make it sound like that. So he watched this and what was he fascinated by it?

Adam [New]: Well, yeah, but he sees his mother and his father and he's aprons, they're splattered with blood and she turned around to him and 'cause she caught him watching.

Oh, I can

Kyle [New]: imagine that him turning around and going, pointing the finger, going, you get outta here.

Adam [New]: Pretty much. And years later he'd say he never forgot that moment. And quite [00:35:00] clearly the way that his parents were butchering that hog is kind of what he would go on to do.

After a while, uh, Augusta decided to move the family to playing field. She felt like the family needed a fresh start and away from all the temptation of a city. And she bought the farm herself in her name, not her husband's. And she wanted to yeah, have a bit more of a country life, a bit more of a pure life for her and her sons.

Growing up, teachers would remember Ed as odd, especially like this laughing that he would do. He would just burst out laughing like he was telling himself his own private jokes.

Kyle [New]: Well, like hysterically, like a madman.

Adam [New]: I dunno if it was like a maniacal laughter, but it was just, I guess he would be laughing and people would turn around and go like, what's so funny?

Who are you talking to?

Kyle [New]: I mean, I do that all the time. I would be like, I said this one thing, this one time, I'm so funny.

Adam [New]: Maybe, maybe he's recording that he would crack these jokes, which would make everyone like go, oh, that's disgusting. , I guess a dark, twisted senses of humor.

Kyle [New]: Yeah, that's it. I wouldn't say dark, I'd [00:36:00] say twisted. Mm-hmm.

Adam [New]: He would often mimic other kids' mannerisms, I guess to fit in or to try and form a bond with them. But he kind of did it creepily and would just make everyone like be, just don't wanna go near him sort of thing.

Kyle [New]: Right. Okay. So he's not making fun of them. He's genuinely doing this because he is like, okay, how are these people acting if I act like them, then. I could be one of them. I think So. Is that where that's rooted in?

Adam [New]: I think he wanted to try and befriend some of them, uh, because he'd rush home afterwards. Uh, when he like does strike up a bit of a connection and he would tell his mom the good news about the fact that he's finally made a friend. But then she would reel off all the reasons why that kid was no good. Like the, the boy's family had a bad reputation or there were rumors that the father's passed was, I dunno, he was a criminal or the mother had questionable virtue.

Mm-hmm. Is what she used to say. So the next day he would then avoid that person at school because he was terrified of her wrath.

Kyle [New]: That's awful. This poor kid who really majorly feels like an outsider is already struggling [00:37:00] socially, doesn't really have someone in his life to kind of help him. Adapt in society in an unhealthy way, and then boom, he makes a friend. Only for his mom to just do that to him.

Adam [New]: Yeah. And I guess that's the thing. Every time he gets somewhere with this, he's kind of pulled back into this isolated family.

Kyle [New]: Augusta's, my sister, she just wants to keep poor Ed just all to herself for the rest of her life. That's what she wants.

Adam [New]: Yeah. And it wasn't easy because kids would often pick on him sometimes because of the way he behaved, uh, he seemed more feminine than other boys. Uh, he also had a lazy eye from some growth on his eyelid. Oh. And so kids would pick on him and, and would make him cry.

So that only reinforced the stuff his mother would say about these kids. Yeah. And I guess that just made him closer with his mom because it was like, yeah, mom's right.

Ad placement

Adam [New]: Now the boys are outta school and are men now, and they're working on the farm. It's probably important to note that at this point, Henry Ed's brother, he's pretty normal, to [00:38:00] be fair.

All things considered. He still had the same kind of lectures and everything else about the Bible and whatever, and wasn't really allowed to make friends. But somehow he kind of broke free of that. He didn't just listen to his mother

Kyle [New]: exactly like he has allowed the other experiences from outside of the home to kind of infiltrate his psyche and how he is and who he is, et cetera.

Mm-hmm. And he's probably adjusted, I guess if he didn't do that, then he might have ended up a little bit like Ed.

Adam [New]: Yeah, exactly. but as they get older, Augusta goes into overdrive about the wickedness of women. She makes them promise to stay pure and she even says, if your lust gets too strong, it's better to spill your seed on the ground than sin with a woman.

Kyle [New]: Which do I just there on the carpet?

Adam [New]: Yeah, just jerk off on into the dirt. I don't know.

Kyle [New]: I just imagine her coming out, and then rubbing his nose in it.

Adam [New]: I imagine that's what she would do. I just have that vision in my head.

Well, do you know what? You're not far off this because shutter, once Augusta caught Ed in the [00:39:00] bath with a National Geographic magazine, which

Kyle [New]: look at the knobs on it,

that's a reference from friends just in case people don't know where Joey is giggling at a pig that he sees in the National Geographics magazine and he's commenting on the knobs on it.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Well, I dunno if he's looking at pigs at this point, but, or

Kyle [New]: it's probably what, looking at some kind of traditional, African tribesmen or something like that.

Quite possibly. Yeah. But the thing is though, that's what we did when we were kids, right? When there's no porn, there's no internet. What do you do? Where do you get your porn from? For me, it was the Argos catalog.

Adam [New]: Yeah, that's right. It's usually a lingerie catalog.

Kyle [New]: Yeah.

Adam [New]: Some lacy fronts over there. Yeah.

Kyle [New]: Sometimes if you were lucky, you would like walk into the woods and you might find a porno magazine. Then you would just use that and clearly like some kids left it in there and they come and they look at it. You're not supposed to steal it. You're supposed to leave it there. Once you've done what you've done with it,

Adam [New]: do you like stamp it? Like when like at a library?

Kyle [New]: Yeah. You just come on it. Yeah. And that's your [00:40:00] stamp. And then sometimes if you were lucky, like one of your mates would like distribute a VHS tape around all your mates and they would all watch it.

But the problem was after like the hundredth time that's been around the circuit, you get to the real good bit. But because that bit's been rewound and played and rewound and played, the video progressively just gets worse and worse and worse and worse up until the bit That's good. Like the money shots and then you can't see anything. You're like, oh, this is a point of this.

Adam [New]: That was a insight into your childhood, wasn't it?

Kyle [New]: Well, you've never had a shared VHS tape that's gone round with porn on it. I've never had a shared one, no. Okay. I'll tell you what I'm gonna do.

I'm gonna record some porn on a VHS and I'm gonna be like, I have my backpack with me. And I'll be like, we'll be like in town. And I'll be like, Hey Adam, I've got something for you. And you'd be like, what is it? And I'll open up my, my backpack and you'd be like, ah. And I'd be like, you've gotta keep this safe.

Don't show anyone. If your parents find it, just like tell them that it's your graduation video. And you'd be like, [00:41:00] yeah, okay. And then I'll let you go home. I'll set up the, the VHS and then you can watch the weird porn. I'll make sure like to grab the VHS and like scribble out the little bit where it gets good so you get the full experience.

Do you know what I mean? Where it's progressive to getting worse and worse. Well,

Adam [New]: one, we don't. Adam,

Kyle [New]: I'd like a thank you. Thank you, Kyle. Ah,

awkward.

Adam [New]: Um, what were we talking about now? Forgotten.

Kyle [New]: Ed.

Adam [New]: Ge. Oh yeah, that's right. He was diddling with himself. That's why.

Kyle [New]: To a, to a National Geographic? I think so.

Adam [New]: But the thing I was trying to get to was, uh, Augusta had grabbed his genitals and said, you know, this is the curse of man. So she basically stopped diminish his tracks,

Kyle [New]: but, but she encouraged this?

Adam [New]: No, she said, um,

Kyle [New]: in the floor, not the bar.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Do it, but don't have any inspiration from the National Geographic.

Kyle [New]: Yeah, I guess so. God, yeah. You gotta rely on your mind. But like, if I'm not exposed [00:42:00] to the things that I can fantasize about, then how am I supposed to know what's fantasize about?

Adam [New]: It will just be pigs and farm out yard animals. It must just be pigs.

Kyle [New]: Yeah, I hope this is the thing. I hope Ed GEs not doing this because he doesn't allow room for new things to come in. So if he is wanking over a pig, he's gonna continue wanking over a pig.

Adam [New]: I think that's the least of our concern right now.

Kyle [New]: Okay. Possibly, I don't know what's coming next, but possibly.

Adam [New]: So by 1937, George Ed's father was the shell of a man, he was so ill, he needed round the clock care, actually. Oh, three years later, in 1940, George died at the age of 66.

Heart failure brought on by alcoholism. The family actually felt relief the burden of caring for him was over. So it wasn't, wasn't any easy life, I don't think. But farm life didn't actually get any easier because they had to work extra hard, day and night just to kind of keep things ticking over.

The house was starting to fall apart. They didn't have indoor plumbing, electricity, they just relied on oil [00:43:00] lamps and they had an outhouse. Mm-hmm. So quite a poor family really. The brothers took odd jobs in playing field. Ed worked as a handyman, and believe it or not, a babysitter. Kids loved him. He did,

Kyle [New]: kids loved me,

Adam [New]: but he did like magic tricks.

Um, he would like hold snowball fights in the winter Uhhuh. Um, she give them born Hs stage. He'd get him his National Geographic

Kyle [New]: look at the nerves on it.

Adam [New]: Um, but I think from his perspective, he felt like he understood children better than adults. And so to the townspeople, maybe a bit odd, but harmless because he's just having fun with kids. But that sounds very weird .

So after the dad's death, Henry was far more outgoing. He was able to break free a bit. He wasn't always tied to the farm. He took jobs on the railroads as a contractor. He led crews in the field. He lived in a world unlike Ed, who barely left home. And the thing is, even though I say that both of them still lived at home [00:44:00] into their forties.

Mm-hmm. So pretty late that they weren't, settling down with a woman or a family or anything like that. They were still with their mom.

Kyle [New]: It sounds like Henry probably is doing this because he needs to be the man in the house. Right. He's stepping up. Ed gyn, I think is a different reason.

Adam [New]: Yeah, I think so. The two of them, they got along mostly, but they would fight over the fact that, Henry would say, well, why are you, you are kind of weirdly close with mum.

What's going on? Oh, and that's the thing that they would fight about because Henry thought it was a bit over the top or weird, and Ed's just shocked. He's like, how would you not worship mom like I do, sort of thing.

So, to make matters worse, Henry fell in love, uh, with a divorced mother of two. Henry, despite being in his forties, managed to have girlfriends outside of the home. He had planned to move in with his girlfriend, uh, but of course that was the exact kind of woman that Augusta tried to warn her boys of a divorced one.

Kyle [New]: Of course, yeah. Sally, two kids, no.

Adam [New]: Yeah. And so that is something that Ed and Henry would fight about. Uh, but sadly for [00:45:00] Henry, he never got to move in with his girlfriend because on Tuesday, may the 16th, 1944, Henry died at the age of 44. Oh. That day, the brothers were fighting a fire on their property. Supposedly it was started on purpose to encourage fresh vegetation to grow there.

But the fire got out of control and started taking over, heading towards the house. So Ed, he says that he escaped the flames by retreating into a nearby marsh, but he lost Henry along the way.

So Ed went to gather a search party, including the town sheriff. they returned to this burned patch of land, and coincidentally, ed led them straight to Henry's body, which was pretty convenient considering he had trouble tracking his brother down.

And all of a sudden he just goes to a spot and is like, oh, there's Henry.

Kyle [New]: Yeah,

Adam [New]: Henry's body is laid on the scorched earth, but seemed like it was untouched by fire. There were no burns on his skin and his clothes were in intact. So the coroner ruled the death by asphyxiation from the smoke, which may have been the case, [00:46:00] but they seemed to discard the fact that Henry had some odd bruises on his head as if he had been hit.

Kyle [New]: Yeah. So what we're saying is we think that Mr. Eddie Gein has murdered him. He's been storing him somewhere. He's gone ahead and set this fire, or this fire has happened, and then he is like, this is a great cover. Let me move this body.

Adam [New]: Well the death was ruled an accident at the time. No one suspected foul play. They just think that maybe he got his injuries on his head from when he fell. But I think later on questions did arise because what really happened here, could Ed have killed his brother? Especially when there was a lot of tension at that time that he's about to move out and you know, his Henry would always question him about his relationship with his mother.

So yeah, people suspect that this was Ed's first murder.

Kyle [New]: Wow. Okay. His first murder was his brother. How much do you wanna bet his second murder is his mom?

Adam [New]: I'm not good about that. Okay.

After Henry died, Augusta's Health took a [00:47:00] turn. She often felt faint, and one day she was so sick, ed drove her to the hospital. And after a long exam, the doctors said that she had had a stroke. So Ed stayed by her side every hour he was allowed. When she was well enough to go home, he carried her across the threshold into her bed, and he tended to her every sort of day and night, giving her whatever she needed food to eat.

He would bathe her, he would dress her. it was terrible to see her so helpless in his eyes. Mm-hmm. She was his world,

By mid 1945, Augusta, uh, was able to walk again, but just barely and true to form. She would always push Ed away whenever he tried to help. in the winter of 1945, she ordered Ed to buy a straw for the farm. Um, but she didn't trust him to handle the deal alone, so she went with him because she's controlling.

They arrived to find a man beating a dog with a stick, and the dog died on the spot. And so this man's girlfriend rushes out, upset over the dog trying to plead with him to stop. And [00:48:00] Augusta is furious, but not because of the violence towards the dog. She was pissed that this weak man was living in sin with that woman and the sight of that woman intervening just thought she was some harlot and that stayed with her for days.

Kyle [New]: Wow.

Adam [New]: That really got to her. Mm. Which is crazy. I just think for someone to be so angered and emotional over Yeah. Someone just living their life.

Kyle [New]: Yeah, for sure. That's cruel.

Adam [New]: And this anger that she felt towards this woman, apparently triggered her second stroke. Ed rushed her to the hospital again, but on December 29th, 1945, Augusta died at the age of 67.

Kyle [New]: I just wish that would happen to more people, more hateful people out there who get so angry at other people living their life, that they get themselves in such a tizzy. That they have a stroke and die. Do you know what I mean? That would

Adam [New]: help out, help,

Kyle [New]: help out the people and a lot of people, it would help out the entire gay community. It would help out the trans community. It would help out [00:49:00] all the marginalized people. Everyone just all the people who have got so much hate. Just get yourself in such a tizzy that you have a stroke and eye Bye. Yeah.

Adam [New]: You probably would cut a third of the world.

Yeah. At Augusta's funeral ed wept in uncontrollable grief. No one from playing field really turned up except for him.

So Ed was deeply upset. He had lost his only friend, really. The townspeople watched over him afterwards and just recognizing just how emotional he would become whenever he would speak about his mother. Mm-hmm. He still helped out in playing field, but Ed stopped shaving and bathing. His neighbors complained that he stank, he became more reclusive.

And he Even closed off the entire second floor of his house, which is where Augusta stayed almost keeping it like a shrine. Like a

Kyle [New]: shrine. Yeah, I was gonna say. So poor kid, he's really crumbling. Like unfortunately it is, Augusta's is doing like she is not prepared him for a life without her.

Adam [New]: That's true [00:50:00] actually. That's a good way of putting it.

So Ed moved into the dining room off the kitchen. He only really used two or three rooms in the house, so the rest of it sort of fell into decay. Dirty dishes would pile up.

They were never washed. There was rubbish all over the floors. He leased a few acres to a neighbor for income. He did a few odd jobs, handyman work. He would thresh wheat each season,

Kyle [New]: like chopping down wheat.

Adam [New]: Yeah. so when he would get with all the other farmers, I guess they would, you know, a group of men would do it together. Tackle the work. They would be out there in the fields during the day. And then after their shift, they would come home and the wives would basically cook dinner for them.

But the men would play jokes on him. They would steal his tools. Aw. Hide his boots. The wives often felt sorry for him, despite either, you know, he was creepy. They still, gave him food and want, wanted they, well, yeah.

Kyle [New]: I mean, this poor guy, he doesn't have a brother. He's lost his father. He's now lost his mother. He's on his own in this world. He's trying to get by. Clearly. He wasn't always in this state that he was in. So why would that not command. [00:51:00] At least a little bit of dignity and respect towards him. And that's what these women are seeing. Just cruel that these guys are doing that.

Adam [New]: Yeah. They're showing sympathy. Although I think they are a little bit freaked out because he would just stare at them.

Kyle [New]: I know. Like he's got these weird social kind of issues. It's a polite way of putting it. Yeah. Do you think a part of him is maybe on the spectrum, if he was around today, would he have been diagnosed with some kind of Aspergers or autism because he seems to really struggle with connecting with certain people?

Adam [New]: Quite possibly. They do say that he had mental health, issues. Um, which make a lot more sense when you hear about what you did.

Kyle [New]: Okay. Interesting.

Adam [New]: In his spare time, he dove into true crime magazines. Um, murder and Lust became his favorite topics. He would recount like grizzly tales or odd moments and making odd comments towards women about some of the stories that he would read. And despite all these interactions with people, he basically still longed for his mother and he kept himself to himself.

One thing would get him out of the house though, and that would be to venture to town, [00:52:00] to Mary Hoggins Tavern. So Mary was an interesting woman. Mm-hmm. She was about 50 described as heavyset as well.

Kyle [New]: Oh my God. I'm getting the pattern here. So this is two women that he's gone after, the first one with Bernice. Mm-hmm. And now Mary, they're both in their fifties. Uhhuh. He's looking for a mother.

Adam [New]: You, yeah. He's seeing something in these women.

Kyle [New]: Yeah, he definitely is, isn't he? Yeah. Interesting. So what is he, so he goes to see Mary.

Adam [New]: Yeah, she's 14 stone. She has a German accent and she swore like a trooper.

Kyle [New]: Okay. So. In a way a lot like his mother. Yeah. Except for the potty mouth.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Uh, rumor has it. She was twice divorced and used to run a brothel. Mm-hmm. In Chicago.

Kyle [New]: Ooh, cherry on the top there.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Although I wasn't able to corroborate that, which is really annoying.

They kept looking for different resources and only one or two mentioned that.

But like you say, Mary reminded Ed a lot about, his mother, but at the same point, she was everything Ed's mother would hate in a woman, yet she had a [00:53:00] resemblance of Augusta that Ed couldn't shake. So Ed would visit her tavern perhaps to find comfort, to be around someone that reminded him of his mother.

And people would actually believe that Ed had a crush on her. So it's not clear whether there was a romantic element to this that he did fancy, Mary, or whether he just liked to spend time with her because that helped him cope with losing his mother.

Kyle [New]: Oh, interesting.

Adam [New]: Yeah, exactly. But that all ended on December the eighth, 1954.

Kyle [New]: Oh, fuck me. He's gonna shoot her, isn't he?

Adam [New]: Well, I wasn't gonna say a man walked into Mary's everywhere. Oh no, wait. That bit is true. A man did walk into Mary's empty bar and froze. Because on the floor was a massive pool of blood.

Kyle [New]: Oh

Adam [New]: shit. And there's shell casings that lay nearby and there's a drag mark trail out of the door into the parking lot, suggesting that whoever had been killed there, their body had been taken. And Mary, of course, was missing. And she was likely the victim of this attack.

Kyle [New]: Okay, interesting.

Adam [New]: The thing is, no leads ever [00:54:00] really emerged about what happened to Mary. She just vanished without a trace. And I guess it kind of went quiet after this incident, um, which allowed Ed to get back normal life and then allowed him to then marry

Kyle [New]: normal life killing women.

Adam [New]: Yeah.

Interestingly, locals would say to Ed, had he tried to pursue Mary harder, she could have been safe because could have been living with him. And he had smiled darkly and go, she's at my house right now. And they'd laugh off thinking, oh, it's just his weird humor. Silly old ed being creepy again.

Kyle [New]: Yeah.

Adam [New]: Not realizing he's being a hundred percent honest.

Kyle [New]: I mean, do you know what, sometimes the truth is easily disguised inside a joke. I do it all the time.

Adam [New]: Yeah, exactly.

Ad Placement

Adam [New]: So let's return to the night of November the 16th, 1957 where we started this episode. Mm-hmm. Deputy Sheriff Lee and his, partner has just found a woman's decapitated body hung up with their inside, stripped out in Ed's barn.

They've just vomited from what they had witnessed, and they're just having a minute, they're having a cigarette just [00:55:00] to compose themselves, sex and a cigarette.

And of course, they call for backup because once others arrive, they decide that they need to make their way into the main house where things are about to get much worse.

Kyle [New]: Yeah.

Adam [New]: So as we know, already most of Deen's house, and upstairs and much of the ground floor is boarded off.

Yeah. So it's been preserved exactly as it had been when Augusta was alive. Dust layered every surface, but what was worse was the smell. It stank. There was an overpowering mix of rubbish feces and rotten food. And yeah, apologies if you're eating or having a snack right now, but you may want to just pop that bit of food down whilst I continue.

Kyle [New]: Oh, Jesus. Better star anuses.

Adam [New]: So several of the men, uh, were looking around the house, and then some of 'em actually do run outside to vomit some more because it's that bad. Uh, in the middle of the kitchen, uh, they hear rats scurrying around and along the countertops and in the corners of the room.

Mm-hmm. The kitchen feels claustrophobic. There's mounds of trash and junk piled [00:56:00] everywhere. It's like hoarders central, albeit nothing of any value, just rubbish. A bit like that woman from friends who has that filthy apartment that Ross dates.

Kyle [New]: I would live in her apartment. Really? She, she's got Mitzi

Adam [New]: Yes. Was no, it was a rat.

Kyle [New]: No, but Mitzi was also there, right?

Adam [New]: Yeah. But what they killed was a rat.

Kyle [New]: Lisa. Rats are dying.

Adam [New]: So the windows are so grimy. If it was daytime light would barely make it through. Empty cans of pork and beans lay everywhere. Ed heated them on the stove and ate them right from the can, but then would just not throw the tins away.

Kyle [New]: Sure, I get it.

Adam [New]: You get it? Yeah. Okay. On a shelf set a coffee tin stuffed with chewing gum because who knows when you might need that again. So like you'd chew it and then put it in a tin.

Kyle [New]: It is collecting like toenail collections. Yeah. It's weird though, isn't it? Mm-hmm.

Adam [New]: Some other items include three old radios, though there was no electricity to use them. A placard reading in case of fire called five oh five, there was no phone either a gas mask, empty pill bottles labeled for [00:57:00] Augusta, a container of cheap cereal toys and cracker jack boxes, a rubber ball, a basin of sand boxes, old magazines, out of date calendars, tubs of broken dishes, ropes, and clothing from when Ed and Henry were kids.

Kyle [New]: Yeah, it sounds like a lot of. Historical items that you've listed there, like from his childhood as well and growing up and items belonging to his mom. Interesting. So it's almost like he's just left it exactly as it was at one moment in time. And then what's just gathered on top of it is just more and more rubish,

Adam [New]: more and more stuff.

But the reason I kind of list some of these mundane things Yeah. Is because you, you see these when you walk into the room, which makes it a lot more difficult to then pick out the odd items. But then when you start to look like, oh, fuck more closely at things, you go, oh, the fuck is that?

Kyle [New]: What? Get to the things now. Right now.

Adam [New]: So they see two sets of dentures, which, okay, maybe they're Ed's or his mom's. Mm-hmm. Um, But then they see three bowls, which look a bit odd. One still [00:58:00] held some soup that Ed had been eating out of, except they weren't bowls made from China. Instead, they were made from skulls that had the cranium sorn off, just above the temple shit.

Kyle [New]: Okay. He is making something.

Adam [New]: Yeah. At the kitchen table stood three chairs. The seat padding had been replaced, from this old wicker weave. Now it was upholstered in human skin. No. Tanned and leathered or light leather.

Kyle [New]: Oh,

human skin.

Adam [New]: Human skin.

Kyle [New]: Okay. So straightaway, if this is what you're opening with. What else has he tanned and skinned and, reupholstered?

Adam [New]: Well, we shall continue.

Kyle [New]: Fuck me.

Adam [New]: Underneath the cushions, uh, were, uh, stuttered with white blobs of human fat that dripped and congealed during the crude tanning process gross by the kitchen door. A robe made of horse hide was draped on a hook.

Uh, but then the police gave it a kick and shone their torches and a small paper [00:59:00] bag hidden beneath and inside that layer, lump of hair and desiccated skin

Kyle [New]: rank

Adam [New]: among the piles of trash. Police found a lampshade made of human skin again. And this lampshade was stretched. And then there was wire that was used to shut the eyes, make the noses flattened, and then the lips were sealed.

Kyle [New]: Oh my God. Do you know what another thing is inspired?

Adam [New]: What?

Kyle [New]: Dr. Who's Cassandra?

Adam [New]: Yeah. That was a giant piece of skin.

Kyle [New]: Yeah.

Adam [New]: Although that was living,

Kyle [New]: yeah.

Adam [New]: This isn't, that's true.

Kyle [New]: Isn't gross.

Adam [New]: They found scraps of skin turned into leather bracelets and a knife holster, uh, a waste basket was woven from wire and skin again. So this is really sick that someone could come up with all these creations in some way. He's quite crafty, really.

But, it's so creepy. This is the kind of stuff that you don't wanna see on a German store market at Christmas.

Kyle [New]: Fuck me. Yes. Or. Or is it? No, I don't think it [01:00:00] is. I've been to enough fucking German markets to realize that I don't want to go back to another German market unless I have something different to show.

Adam [New]: What about like one of the A sausage?

Kyle [New]: That's what I mean. Every year we go. It's always the same stuff. It's always soaps. It's always churros and the grape food and the mold wine, uh, Christmas or always the same stuff. Just one over price. Christmas wine.

Exactly. Like when we were in Austria? Wasn't it like we went into this Christmas shop and it was like 40 euros for one ball? Ball. No, thank you. I'm sick and tired of it. Just once. I'd like to see a human flesh lamp.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Maybe you will. Now

Kyle [New]: what else have they got in this house, Adam?

Adam [New]: So some other ornaments include a jar full of noses. Oh God. And a box full of vulva, which is the plural of vulva.

Kyle [New]: Gross. So Fannys,

Adam [New]: yeah. One. How many? Well, I dunno. There was I guess more than one. How big is the jar?

Kyle [New]: Pickle jar Or like a [01:01:00] small, like a pesto jar?

Adam [New]: Well, this is a box, so it's a little box that contained these vve. Jesus. Uh, one had been painted and I'm trying to remember why, but I can't remember exactly 'cause it either was, it turned bad and it had gone green, so he painted it silver. Either that or it's a novelty. Bobble, fuck me.

Kyle [New]: Moving on. Can't imagine putting down tree fuck's sake. What

Adam [New]: is that?

Kyle [New]: No, no.

Adam [New]: What is that? Um, now I'm joking. I'm joking. 'cause it's really awful and that's the only way to deal with it.

Kyle [New]: It is, this is the only way, but, I need to understand as a man who, what has only touched one fanny technically, I'm a, I'm a platinum gay because a never touched a fanny. I was born by a C-section

and I very rarely look at fannie's. That's,

Adam [New]: that's not a condition for this, but, okay,

Kyle [New]: so I'm a platinum gay, a purebred gay. But when you take a vagina off of a body, [01:02:00] does anything else come out or is it just like the face bit?

Adam [New]: I don't know, and I dunno if I want to talk about that. Okay.

Kyle [New]: I just need to know what's in this jar.

Adam [New]: Well, there's a jar of noses and a box evolving, and so it's enough that will fit in a box. That's all I know.

Kyle [New]: Noses and vaginas. Oh, those go together.

Adam [New]: So moving into gain's bedroom above the bed was a clothes line, which was hung with soiled handkerchiefs,

Kyle [New]: oh God.

Adam [New]: Uh, on the floor, uh, looked to be another skull shaped bowl, except this wasn't for eating alto. This was Ed's makeshift chamber pot

Kyle [New]: yo

Adam [New]: books lay piled nearby. And across the room, a rocking chair had been covered and stitched in flesh yet again. More trash and rats, of course. Uh, and then officers were walking through the carpet and like they were kicking up clouds of green mold and a sudden blast of stench would like knock them back and then they'd have to flee the room. Along the walls. There was a, a broken accordion, a violin missing its [01:03:00] strings, and four spotless firearms, which apparently that was the only clean items.

That clean would clean

Kyle [New]: wow. So that's the only thing he's cleaning.

Adam [New]: Yeah. The bird had a bear moldy mattress that was stained yellow.

There were thread bear sheets bunched at the end, and then the bedposts were made to complete with human skulls, which were fixed by a nail to the back to the head.

Kyle [New]: Got he sleeping with that? Let's rank

Adam [New]: in a corner. Lay his unwashed clothes. The window blind had a pull handle carved from human lips. Oh. And they found a belt, uh, strap, which was made of 15 stitched nipples stitched together by the areolas.

Kyle [New]: I, I, I,

Adam [New]: which I, I don't feel like they're big enough to make a belt.

Kyle [New]: I guess he's stretching them.

Adam [New]: I guess

Kyle [New]: so. I mean, I once saw my mom's nipples and they were massive.

They were really shockingly big.

Adam [New]: Yeah.

Kyle [New]: Okay.

Adam [New]: Anyway,

Kyle [New]: I [01:04:00] don't look at boobs very often.

Adam [New]: Boobs or fatties or anything. You're platinum gay, apparently. Then they came across what was left of Mary Hogan, the woman who looked a lot like Augusta and who was thought to have been killed and kidnapped. Uh, but there was, there was no leads. So Mary Hogan's face had been lifted off the skull and preserved and transformed into a grizzly ghoulish mask.

Kyle [New]: Oh.

Adam [New]: Sadly, Mary was not the only person. Ed would make a mask off because Ed had crafted a full on body suit made out of two separate middle aged women that Ed later admitted that he would put on that body suit along with the skin mask to become his mother.

Kyle [New]: Oh no. It's honestly, it's just so much easier to kidnap Mary alive, bring her back to your house and make her pretend to be your mom.

That true? It's the easiest thing Mary gets to live. Sure. She's a prisoner, [01:05:00] but she gets to live.

Adam [New]: I don't think that's what he wanted. He wanted to become his mother. Oh, shit. Really? In fact, there were rumors that sometimes if you crept up to Ed's farm, you'd see dead Augusta dancing naked in the moonlight, but maybe that's not a ghost at all. It was Ed dressed in a suit made of stitched human flesh. So yeah, that now explains what Ed was likely going to be doing with Bernice's Corpse,

Kyle [New]: Jesus. Now these poor women, and I know like we laughed about it, but also, and it's because these things are so synonymous with these slash horror movies, right.

There's so much ingrained in the zeitgeist and the culture that we also actually forget that all of those films, like the Sons of the Lambs Texas Chainsaw massacre Psycho, they're all inspired by actual real events. These things pretty much happened and they inspired this really grotesque art. Mm-hmm.

Adam [New]: And so you've got, I think all the victims here. Yeah, we're joking about it a little bit just to kind of [01:06:00] deal with the absurdity and the horror, but all these victims,

Kyle [New]: they were someone's moms. Someone's what I do. We know much about these victims.

Adam [New]: We will actually, we will go on to find out a little bit more because, yeah. The excavation of Ed's house dragged on until 5:00 AM the next morning. And 'cause there was just so much to go to get through.

Kyle [New]: So what are they doing? Are they taking all this stuff out in the house?

Adam [New]: They're taking it for evidence and everything like that. It's being photographed, but then it's quickly being disposed of, which prevents any further forensic investigation in later years to identify who some of these victims were. You know, the police never knew who all those body parts necessarily belonged to.

Meanwhile, Geen sat in a jail cell, and he refused to confess. At 2:30 AM the sheriff that discovered, Bernice's body and went into the farmhouse, he, threw Ed against the wall and smashed his face into the bricks, demanding to know everything that happened. But Ghen, he denied everything.

And so over 12 hours of interrogation and [01:07:00] without a lawyer, ed held his silence. It was only the next day did he admit to Bernice Warden's murder, claiming he had blacked out. And then two days later, after another interrogation, he did admit to Mary Hogan's murder again, saying that he blacked out and wasn't conscious of what he was doing.

Kyle [New]: Wow.

Adam [New]: But all the other victims, he denies killing them. Instead, he said he was grave robbing.

Kyle [New]: Oh, Jesus. So he exhumed them, essentially. Yeah. Is that true?

Adam [New]: Well, the police don't buy this at first. They just think he's trying to get out of further punishment. So even though he is a little bit weird, they thought that he perhaps was, he couldn't be that insane and had the mental competence to recognize that grave robbing probably would, hold a lesser sentence than more murders.

Kyle [New]: But at the same time, like considering the number of body parts they found, just counting the noses that they had, It sounds like quite a lot of people. Where was the alarm when those people went missing? And it doesn't sound like there was,

Adam [New]: there wasn't, because the local grave [01:08:00] keeper and the mortician, they insisted that they've never seen any disturbed graves or anything like that because Oh, interesting.

They would know about it really. But Ed claimed that he would only go after Graves, which had recent victims, which were a lot easier to dig up essentially. Mm-hmm. He could then take the body parts and then put everything back in order which he said was apple pie order, which seems like a very weird saying to describe putting bodies back.

So Ed is not a wasteful man, and he would admit that he would put body parts back that he didn't need.

Kyle [New]: Like what?

Adam [New]: Well, I guess if he only needs an arm, he'll take the arm and then won't take the rest of the body. He's, yeah, he's quite, so it depends

Kyle [New]: on projects he's working on, right?

Adam [New]: I guess so, yeah.

Kyle [New]: Jesus,

Adam [New]: overall, he said he made about 40 trips, in his time to the graveyard, and sometimes he would black out whilst digging, them up, and then he would come to and then realize, oh, what am I doing? I'm just gonna go home. And then he'd put everything back.

Kyle [New]: He trying to say that he wasn't in control of. The impulse something [01:09:00] else was acting on his behalf.

Adam [New]: That's what he's saying. Yeah. Interesting.

Kyle [New]: Cause the thing is that we watched a long time ago, Bates Motel and he did a few things like that. Right. The mum would come outside and he would dug this massive hole. He would also go into these trances as well, wouldn't he?

Adam [New]: Yeah. I dunno if they ever proved that happened, but this is what he at least says happened. The police eventually exhumed two caskets, either because, they took what Ed was saying seriously. Or they wanted to prove that he was lying. But Ed's story checked out, the bodies had been disturbed and parts of them were missing.

And that was enough to confirm gee's story, and they didn't need to go digging up any more graves essentially. Wow. So on November the 21st, 1957, ed Gein was brought into court accused only of Bernice Warden's murder. He pled not guilty by reason of insanity, which was hardly a shock. But then a month later after endless interviews and tests, psychiatrists diagnosed him with schizophrenia.

And the judge agreed he wasn't well enough [01:10:00] to stand trial. So Ed sent off to a central state hospital for the criminally insane, and that became his final home.

Kyle [New]: Really. Mm-hmm. So he pretty much died there.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Yeah, he would go on to spend about 30 to 40 years.

Kyle [New]: Shit, that's a long time.

Adam [New]: Yeah.

Kyle [New]: So he was roundabout in his forties now, right? Mm-hmm. So he lived right up until he, he was 80.

Adam [New]: Uh, yeah, I think he died in 1984.

Kyle [New]: Wow.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Of lung cancer.

Kyle [New]: God.

Adam [New]: So yeah, he spent the rest of his life in this institute. During his early evaluations, ed blamed, the way he had become, down to the day that his mother watched that dog being beaten. Mm. And then she had that fatal stroke. And so the local paper couldn't resist the headline that Geen diagnoses his own case blames dog.

Kyle [New]: Well, I mean, very often you simplify headlines down to bare bones.

Right? And that's what they did in this case.

Adam [New]: I mean, yeah, technically that's what he said. In a roundabout way. So in the weeks that followed, police argued [01:11:00] over how many graves he had robbed and the worst truth slipped out that he'd stitched together a human skin suit to become his mother, which the reporters jumped on and they were asking Ed if he ever tried to dig his mother up.

Kyle [New]: Mm-hmm.

Adam [New]: He actually said that he, you know, looked into that, but she had a concrete sealed casket and was out of reach.

Kyle [New]: She knew that he would try.

Adam [New]: She's like, the one thing that I want when I die, I don't want my son coming after me.

Kyle [New]: Jesus.

Adam [New]: Ed does claim that he regularly heard his mother's voice in his head. And after her death started to smell rotten flesh everywhere, which was likely because his place stank of Ron Fresh.

Kyle [New]: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's you babe.

Adam [New]: Reporters also asked if he had ever slept with any of the dead, but he denied having sex with the bodies he exhumed because he's like, Ew, gross. They smell too bad that's where he draws the line.

Kyle [New]: Oh, interesting. Wow.

Adam [New]: He said he would start seeing people's faces in leaves upon the ground. dis You're haunting

Kyle [New]: him, that's why.

Adam [New]: Right? Yeah. [01:12:00] Uh, and the reason he dissected women's bodies was because he believed his mother's teaching that most women are simple creatures. And so he kind of then just experimented and kind of, I dunno, maybe 'cause he was not allowed to be with women essentially. Mm-hmm. Kind of made him that morbidly curious about the women's body.

We also learned that Ed's morbid fascination about creating skin furniture could have been influenced by some of the hobbies, he found himself obsessed about. Because Ed used to read about the Nazi war atrocities. Mm-hmm. And he fixated on two female figures. One of them was Umma Greece, uh, who was named the hyena of Auschwitz.

And then there was Isla Cooch, uh, the witch of Birken Wald

Kyle [New]: so what do they gotta do with furniture made of skin?

Adam [New]: Well, um, one of them, Koch in particular, she tortured and murdered prisoners and then harvest their skin for lampshades furniture and book bindings

Kyle [New]: ish. That is, that is Dark Book bindings

Adam [New]: yeah. So whether [01:13:00] that's where you got the inspiration from, you know, you can see all these things kind of pieced together and go, okay, well that's how you become the person you were. Yeah. As weird as that is, yeah. Interestingly, just days before a planned auction, the Geen farmhouse was burnt down.

Some said that traumatized officers or angry neighbors basically torched the place because

Kyle [New]: Sure. Why wouldn't you? I mean, they have like Ians living amongst them. Of course they're gonna look at that and go, that's a devil house.

Adam [New]: Yeah.

Kyle [New]: Burn it down.

Adam [New]: And I don't think anyone wanted it to become like a shrine or anything like that.

Kyle [New]: No. And especially like poor Augusta. I mean, I have very little sympathy for her at this point, but she was a very religious woman. And that's what it's turned her house into.

Adam [New]: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. Actually. Awful. Didn't think of it like that. Um, so Gain's own car, was sold to a Carnival sideshow operator and they turned it into a Morbid Attraction branded the Ed Geen Goul car.

And they charged 25 cents admission to see the very vehicle he used to haul bodies from grave sites. God. But after a [01:14:00] brief run, I think it was shut down because obviously that's gross.

Kyle [New]: I, Adam, this is 1950s or whatever. That's not why they shut things down back then.

Adam [New]: Why do they not do that?

Kyle [New]: I don't know.

Adam [New]: Taxes. Did

Kyle [New]: The taxes, man. The taxes.

Adam [New]: On November the seventh, 1968, doctors eventually declared Ed fit for trial in the courtroom. He repeated his blacked out defense for killing his victims, claiming the rifle fired itself during a testing session. Mm-hmm. Uh, given the meticulous cleanup, a mutilation that followed, few believed him and without a jury, the judge found him not guilty by reason of insanity again.

Kyle [New]: Wow.

Adam [New]: So he sent straight back to the asylum, and whilst alive, ed admitted nine grave Exhumations between 1947 and 1954. Mm-hmm. And only confirmed the two murders of Mary Hogan and Bernice Warden. Which is odd because Ed. It's sort of known as a notorious serial killer.

Mm-hmm. But actually we only know that he killed two people and the rest were [01:15:00] just dug up.

Kyle [New]: Wow. Of course. You're so right there. He's like considered one of the most notorious serial killers ever. And it's just assumed that he's killed these people. But you are right. We didn't talk about any other murders other than those two.

Adam [New]: Yeah. And I guess what, like to be considered a serial killer, do you just need to do it twice? ' cause technically he did kill more than one with the same motive.

Kyle [New]: I don't think I've got the head space to really think about that.

Adam [New]: And then he may have killed, his brother as well. We dunno that.

Kyle [New]: True. But he was nagging at him for living at home. And loving mom too much.

Adam [New]: Yeah. Experts do believe that Ed may have killed six to eight people overall. Mm-hmm. There were reports of people going missing in playing field before Ed's arrest, uh, and they were never found.

And so it's plausible that maybe some of them was because of Ed. Supposedly he had periods where he blacked out, so maybe he forgot about these other murders. Ed spent the rest of his days in the asylum and that's when, yeah, he died of lung cancer, in 1984, at the age of 77.

Kyle [New]: [01:16:00] Wow.

Adam [New]: Crazy what? Even crazier. They buried him in playing field cemetery with his mum, but ironically, beside the very graves, he once robbed. So if you are like a, a relative Yeah. Of someone he's dug up, you'd be pissed at that, right?

Kyle [New]: Uh, yeah.

Adam [New]: They're probably long gone. Maybe. He did have an unmarked grave. 'cause I guess they didn't want people digging him up and

Kyle [New]: No, of course.

Yeah. Because someone like him who becomes so notorious, they will become almost a shrine. So, yeah, I get that. But he's in that cemetery somewhere.

Adam [New]: Yeah,

Kyle [New]: But we know where his mom is.

Adam [New]: I guess so. Mm. Now some have commented whether Ed was transgender or at least some kind of dysmorphia about his identity. And I think this largely comes from his infatuation with his mother and wanting to dress up as her or be her. But there's no credible evidence that Ed Geen was ever transgender. I mean, one, the word probably didn't exist at that point.

Kyle [New]: Mm, exactly. Um, I mean, the word didn't exist. Yeah. I'm

Adam [New]: not saying the feeling didn't exist, but it's

Kyle [New]: dangerous because [01:17:00] you don't want to draw that association with some of the things that he did with a community that is struggling as it is.

Adam [New]: Yeah. And that's kind of the reason I bring it up, but just because there are, people wanting to understand, well, if he wanted to become his mother, and dress up in these female skin suits, did he have some kind of identity disorder?

what most people can surmise from this is that he had this necrophilia and psychosis, which wasn't a gender identity or anything like that. And then the fact that he had schizophrenia, uh, and then he had these weird fetish urges. The, you know, the cross-dressing is just an aside part of things.

So I, I don't think there's,

Kyle [New]: yeah. It is one factor out of a lot of weird things going on in his life and in his mind.

Adam [New]: Yeah. And I think it all became from this obsessive fixation on his mother, not anything down to transgender identity.

Kyle [New]: Sure,

Adam [New]: and finally, as we said earlier, he's inspired these movies and some of the biggest horror movies like Psycho, like a Science of the [01:18:00] Lambs. takes his chainsaw.

Kyle [New]: Massacre.

Adam [New]: Exactly. 'Cause in Psycho, the guy there, he's obsessed with his mom. He doesn't kill or dress up as his mom. Mm-hmm. But he does kill his mom, doesn't he?

Kyle [New]: I've not seen it.

Adam [New]: Oh,

Kyle [New]: I know what, what it's about. It's is it Alpha Hitchcock? Yeah. Who did Psycho? Yeah. I'm aware of it. I've not watched it.

Adam [New]: Hitchcock actually admitted that there was some connection, but denied getting ideas from Ed, which is interesting.

And then just over a decade later of when Psycho was released, uh, there's leather face from Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Mm. Where he's, you know, wielding a chainsaw. And he's got a stitch skin mask. And also it's got a farmhouse setting. Yeah. And then, Buffalo Bill in Science of the Lambs, uh, he crafted a woman's suit who was literally walking in Eds footsteps.

And so. Finally, this story is worthy enough to be included in Ryan Murthy's anthology series Monsters. Now, he gave us the Dharma, TV show, Uhhuh, uh, the Menendez Brothers. And now Ed Geen is his sort of third part of his anthology series.

Kyle [New]: Shut up.

Adam [New]: Yeah.

Kyle [New]: And that's why [01:19:00] you've done this episode?

Adam [New]: Very soon. If not this week or the one just gone.

Kyle [New]: But we are recording this ages, like way before.

Adam [New]: Yes. Ooh. You haven't told me when this is gonna be released. No one knows yet. It's October. Okay. So that's why I say it's either the week before or week after this episode.

Kyle [New]: When you go, Kyle, the episode needs to drop. Yeah. I'm gonna be like. I'll move some things around. Exactly. I'll make some room for the Vagina Chats.

Adam [New]: Yes, exactly. So, um, ed Geen, he's gonna be played by Charlie Hanham. Um, who's that best known for? Queer as Folk and Sons of Anarchy, the blonde one from queer as the English version.

Kyle [New]: Oh, I don't recognize him, but he does have a, um,

Adam [New]: big forehead.

Kyle [New]: No, you got a lovely forehead he reminds me of. Um, who's Bain?

Adam [New]: Tom Hardy.

Kyle [New]: He reminds you of Tom Hardy. Do you not think?

Adam [New]: Uh, yeah, a little bit. He's cute. So the show is titled Monster, the original Monster, Sheldon's mum from The Big Bang Theory.

Oh,

Kyle [New]: brilliant.

Adam [New]: She's playing Which one?

Kyle [New]: Young [01:20:00] Sheldon or Older Mum.

Adam [New]: Oh, uh, the Big Bang Theory, not Sheldon Show.

Kyle [New]: Brilliant. So she was in Roseanne as well, right? Yeah. And ah,

Adam [New]: she's gonna do an amazing job because Yes. Just that kind of mum figure who's mm-hmm. Just a bit of a bitch.

Kyle [New]: I thought another person that would do really well as the mum would be the one who played, I can't remember the actress's name, who played, Norman Bates's mother in Beta Mattel. Oh yeah. She

Adam [New]: would've been quite good as well, right? Yeah, that's true actually. Yeah, and even Alfred Hitchcock, not himself, but someone playing Alfred Hitchcock, is gonna be in the show as well. So it kind of, I guess, is gonna cover the production of Psycho to some level, after the events. So we'll have to see how that pans out.

If it's anything like the other shows, it should be good.

Kyle [New]: Mm-hmm.

Adam [New]: And so, yeah, that is the story of Ed Geen, the butcher of playing field.

Kyle [New]: Wow. I don't like that name. Butcher of playing field. Ed Geen stands on its own as this notorious figure, you know? But what is really surprising that I just didn't know is that it's only [01:21:00] proven that he's killed two people. Mm-hmm. The rest were grave robbers.

Adam [New]: Yeah. And that's what I think a very, it's a big misconception, a lot of people, until they learn about this story. And yeah, I mean, there a lot of bodies that he definitely exhumed.

Kyle [New]: Sure. And don't get me wrong, it's horrific what you've described, but isn't there a, a part of you, which I've never felt before, that almost as a little bit of sympathy towards him for his upbringing, what he went through, his psychological issues as well.

and really, yes, he's killed two people. That is horrendous. But I don't get the sense that he is a Jeffrey Dharma. Do you understand what I'm trying to get at there? An element of sympathy for him to a degree. I think so, and I'm very careful with what I'm saying there. 'cause it's a little bit of both. It's a little bit from here and a little bit from there, but there is an element of sympathy.

Adam [New]: I think it's more of a case of, in my opinion, his mother Augusta, who is almost a monster in herself in the way that she, she [01:22:00] is, I get the sense that it's her influence on him and maybe from a different home, different background. He could have been brought up in a different way. He may have killed, dunno that might be inherent in him. Sure. Um, but I don't think he stood a chance and I think we can at least sympathize with him or have some understanding of the way he become. I don't sympathize with what he did. No. But I can just have some understanding of how he got there.

Kyle [New]: Yeah, for sure. So this is interesting and I have a new perspective on it. Still horrifying, but it's rounded now

Adam [New]: I'm not interested in some skin furniture.

Kyle [New]: Oh, definitely not.

Adam [New]: No.

Kyle [New]: But I will be happy to see some of those at the German market.

Adam [New]: Where I will complain about the price.

Kyle [New]: I will not buy any fritters or any sausages, but I will have a mug full of mold wine.

Adam [New]: Yeah, I can't get that back in my hand. Luggage on Rhine Air.

Kyle [New]: Okay. What the, the lamp? Yeah,

Adam [New]: the lamp. That's not gonna fit.

Kyle [New]: Oh.

Adam [New]: Should we [01:23:00] run the outro?

Kyle [New]: Let's run the outro for this week, Adam.

Adam [New]: And that brings us to the end of another fascinating foray into the compendium, an assembly of fascinating things.

Kyle [New]: If today's episode is spark your curiosity, then please do us a favor and follow us on your favorite podcasting app, as we say every week, it truly makes the world a difference and helps other people find the show.

Adam [New]: For our dedicated freaks out there. Don't forget, next week's episode is already waiting for you on our Patreon. Completely free to access.

Kyle [New]: And if you want even more, then join our certified Freaks tier to unlock our entire archive and delve into exclusive content and get sneak peeks of what's coming next.

We'd love you to be part of our growing community.

Adam [New]: We drop new episodes every Tuesday, so until then, remember, a mother's love can guide her children or drive them to kill.

See you next week.

Kyle [New]: See you next week. [01:24:00]