Chowchilla Bus Kidnapping: The Day a School Bus Vanished

[00:00:00] Kyle Risi: Adam, You've actually been kidnapped and buried underground in the middle of nowhere.

[00:00:06] Worse.

[00:00:07] You're buried alive with 26 kids.

[00:00:11] Adam Cox: Geez.

[00:00:13] Kyle Risi: A man suddenly steps out from behind the van.

[00:00:15] Adam Cox: wearing overalls

[00:00:16] Kyle Risi: and was holding a

[00:00:17] Adam Cox: revolver

[00:00:19] Kyle Risi: Ed opens the door

[00:00:20] Adam Cox: Really?

[00:00:21] Kyle Risi: The kids are going nuts. some have absolutely no sense of the danger that they're in.

[00:00:26] They're Ordered to climb down into what turns out to be a lorry [00:00:30] container that they've lowered into a pit in the ground, they've buried it in several feet of quarry soil. And the Conditions, they are deteriorating fast.

[00:00:38] The weight of the soil is now starting to bow inwards. It looks like it could collapse literally at any moment.

[00:00:44] Adam Cox: Oh shit.

[00:00:45] How is he gonna escape this?

[00:00:47]

[00:01:13] Kyle Risi: Welcome to the Compendium, an Assembly of fascinating things, a weekly variety podcast that gives you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering.

[00:01:21] Adam Cox: Each week we explore stories from the darker corners of true crime, the hidden gems of history, and the jaw dropping deeds of extraordinary people.

[00:01:29] Kyle Risi: [00:01:30] I'm Kyle Reese, your Ring master for this week's episode.

[00:01:32] Adam Cox: And I'm Adam Cox, the gardener for this week. Just a gardener.

[00:01:37] Kyle Risi: Just a gardener. Come on. You gotta be more creative than that.

[00:01:41] Adam Cox: No, I'm just here to be fair, when we set up camp on like the beach mm-hmm. Or a car park, there's not much gardening for me to do.

[00:01:48] Kyle Risi: So where we this week then? Because I thought we were just in the car park.

[00:01:51] Adam Cox: Yeah, we're in the car park. So I might tend to like some weeds. That's about it. Get some redox. Is it redox? What do you call the redox? That's a bubble [00:02:00] bath. I will be taking some redox later.

[00:02:03] Kyle Risi: I mean, what, What do you call that stuff that you spray on?

[00:02:05] Weeds.

[00:02:06] Adam Cox: Just weed killer.

[00:02:07] Kyle Risi: Is it Roundup?

[00:02:08] Adam Cox: That's a brand though. Yeah. Um, I don't know.

[00:02:10] Kyle Risi: Ah, guys, PSA, if you've already binged everything we have to offer on the main feed and you still want more, then sign off to our Patreon where you can get next week's episode a whole seven days before anyone else, and best of all is completely free.

[00:02:24] And if you want even more and you want us to keep doing what we do, then consider supporting us by becoming a [00:02:30] fellow freak of the show.

[00:02:31] Yes, for as little as $5 a month, you can unlock a bunch of exclusive perks, such as all of our early access episodes, up to six weeks early, our entire back catalog of all of our vintage compendium episodes, and of course all the latest things.

[00:02:47] Adam Cox: The PS still resistance.

[00:02:49] Kyle Risi: Kyle, again, two weeks in a row. You've said that Pance,

[00:02:54] Adam Cox: yeah, the certified freak and big top tier members also receive an exclusive [00:03:00] compendium key chain. Oh yes. It's beautiful. Mm-hmm. It's high quality. Mm-hmm. And it's wonderfully tacky as always, and it's the single most effective way for us to always be there.

[00:03:09] Kyle Risi: Dangling near your crotch.

[00:03:11] Adam Cox: That's right,

[00:03:11] Kyle Risi: Kyle. Also, guys, don't forget to follow and review wherever you listen to podcasts. It's a freeway to show your support and really helps others discover the show.

[00:03:20] Adam Cox: And lastly, my favorite part of the housekeeping is recognizing some of our certified freaks and big top members. But most importantly, to put you guys to work.

[00:03:29] Kyle Risi: [00:03:30] Yes. I dunno if you guys have seen our, uh, our December newsletter, but what we started doing is assigning you guys some jobs in the circus just like Adam.

[00:03:40] This week we have Jen, our Q Dynamics prognosticator for snack based concessions.

[00:03:46] Adam Cox: Heather, Colleen Pool, our certified custodian of unexplained tent creaking,

[00:03:52] Kyle Risi: we have Kirsten they are our confetti blast Trajectory Projection Analyst.

[00:03:58] Adam Cox: we've got Ella Henry, our [00:04:00] Moisture content Order for for Sad Circus. Popcorn. Oh my God.

[00:04:05] Kyle Risi: We have sarah Bonini, our senior auditor for chaotic popcorn avalanche events.

[00:04:11] Adam Cox: And finally, Angela Suski, our unicycle wobble permissions coordinator.

[00:04:17] Kyle Risi: Love it. But we also have a big top member for this week. It is Sinead Harrington, our Supreme High Commissioner of all temp lap jurisdictional matters.

[00:04:28] Adam Cox: Uh, yes, you know, nothing gets past [00:04:30] her. No, none of those 10 flaps.

[00:04:31] Kyle Risi: Guys, welcome to the circus, but also get your creator writing skills out and tell us what your job description is.

[00:04:39] Let us know what you think your duties involve, who you report to, and how you are tracking against your KPIs, unfathomable, blah, blah, blah.

[00:04:46] Adam Cox: Easy for you to say.

[00:04:48] Kyle Risi: HR have lost all the job descriptions, so we need those back on file. the funniest ones we'll read out in a future episode.

[00:04:54] Adam Cox: Alright,

[00:04:55] Kyle Risi: and Adam, that is enough for the housekeeping. Today on the compendium, [00:05:00] we are diving into an assembly of buried fears, rising courage, and the quiet terror of being forgotten underground.

[00:05:08] Adam Cox: Okay. Someone's been buried alive.

[00:05:11] Kyle Risi: Hmm. Adam, imagine you are a school bus driver. Going about your normal routine when suddenly you find yourself buried alive.

[00:05:21] Adam Cox: Oh, I think I might know this story now.

[00:05:24] Kyle Risi: Worse. You're buried alive with 26 kids. Your job [00:05:30] isn't just to survive It is to keep these kids calm and alive, just long enough to be rescued.

[00:05:35] But Adam, all hope is running out because these kids have eaten their way through the supply of peanut butter sandwiches that they've been buried with.

[00:05:43] Just to be clear, this isn't a natural disaster or a landslide that has trapped you underground. You've actually been kidnapped by a team of bandits and deliberately buried underground in the middle of nowhere.

[00:05:54] All your captors have left you with are a few loaves of bread, a jar of peanut butter, and [00:06:00] a stack of mattresses for comfort. So they cared a little bit.

[00:06:03] Adam Cox: Well, a jar of peanut butter is not gonna, go a whole classroom of kids.

[00:06:08] Kyle Risi: No, it's not gonna sustain anyone, is it?

[00:06:10] Adam Cox: No, that's

[00:06:10] Kyle Risi: barely lunch

[00:06:11] Adam Cox: for you.

[00:06:13] Kyle Risi: Meanwhile, under the weight of all the soil that's been piled on top of you, it looks like the ceiling is going to collapse at any moment. You can't help but wonder which nightmare will come first.

[00:06:24] Running out of air or being crushed under tons of soil.

[00:06:29] [00:06:30] Adam, you don't have to imagine this because in 1976 in the small California town of Chowchilla, this actually happened and the story became a national sensation. It was actually on a par with the baby Jessica saga. That would unfold just a few years later.

[00:06:46] To the country. This story felt like something inspired by a Hollywood movie and little did they know it actually was

[00:06:55] Adam Cox: yeah. This is a wild story. It's a, it's a wild. Since I've heard about it.

[00:06:59] Kyle Risi: Yeah. When did you even hear [00:07:00] about this?

[00:07:00] Adam Cox: Oh, I was, you know, I, I know things

[00:07:02] but I can't remember the details, but I didn't know that it was based on an actual movie.

[00:07:08] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Directly inspired by a movie.

[00:07:09] Adam Cox: It feels like a movie should be made after the event. Mm-hmm. And, and they were. Oh, okay.

[00:07:14] Kyle Risi: But the actual kidnapping itself was inspired by a Hollywood movie.

[00:07:18] Adam Cox: So I'm guessing these kidnappers are idiots. Yeah. They went to

[00:07:22] Kyle Risi: media school.

[00:07:23] Adam Cox: Yeah. And so they thought this would be a really good idea. Is it to get some money, I'm guessing?

[00:07:27] Kyle Risi: We don't wanna Spoiler for our listeners, do we?

[00:07:29] Adam Cox: [00:07:30] Fine. How did this all go down then?

[00:07:31] Kyle Risi: Well, let's just dive straight into it, shall we?

[00:07:33] In 1976. Chowchilla was a small, quiet farming town in California. It's about like 150 miles southeast of San Francisco. Today the population is like 20,000, but back then it was like 5,000.

[00:07:46] So when the Chowchilla school bus kidnapping happened, there was this overwhelming sense of tragedy that really hit the town, but also Adam a thick air of suspicion.

[00:07:55] This was a small town. Everybody knew everybody. So to the towns [00:08:00] folk, whoever did this was most likely someone they knew.

[00:08:03] Suddenly everyone was giving everybody else a bit of side eye. You know, your favorite thing to do.

[00:08:10] Adam Cox: Yeah, I like a bit of side eye.

[00:08:11] Kyle Risi: Today's story, actually, Adam starts on the 15th of July, 1976, it's the last day of summer school, which meant for the kids of the town.

[00:08:20] This was their last chance for fun and activities. Before preparations got underway

[00:08:24] Adam Cox: summer school. But that's just school followed by school.

[00:08:27] Kyle Risi: Yeah, it's for the bad kids, right? Yeah. I think [00:08:30] it's like daycare, like there's a bit of daycare involved.

[00:08:32] Adam Cox: It's more activities, isn't it?

[00:08:34] Exactly Like summer camp? A little bit.

[00:08:35] Kyle Risi: I don't think we've got summer school here.

[00:08:37] Adam Cox: No, we're just assuming. We don't actually know. We literally get left at home.

[00:08:41] Kyle Risi: Frank, Edward Ray will call him Ed because at 55 he doesn't really appreciate being full named, especially by a school bus load of 26 kids.

[00:08:49] But that afternoon, ed was in the process of fairing the kids back to Dairyland Elementary School. They were coming back from the Chowchilla fairground swimming pool where the kids had spent the day [00:09:00] swimming. They were all between the ages of five and 14.

[00:09:03] So quite a mix really for a school, I think.

[00:09:05] Adam Cox: Five to 14. What's that? That's like primary right up to middle school

[00:09:10] Kyle Risi: or like high school even. Cause there's normally like primary in middle school. Are they separated here in the uk? I don't know.

[00:09:15] Adam Cox: Yeah. But that's quite a big age range. I guess 'cause there's a small town and therefore they possibly stick all the kids in one school.

[00:09:22] Kyle Risi: Yeah, one classroom.

[00:09:24] Adam Cox: So you've got a 5-year-old taking their, like a SATs with.

[00:09:28] Kyle Risi: And for Ed driving the school [00:09:30] bus was only a part-time gig. The rest of the time. He worked as a farmer on the outskirts of town, so for him this gig was an easy way to just pick up a bit of extra cash. In fact, ed had been doing this gig for nearly 23 years and the kids, Adam, they absolutely adored him.

[00:09:45] To them, he was this permanent fiction, not just in their lives but in their parents' lives too. Like most had grown up with Ed, been their bus driver.

[00:09:54] Adam Cox: Is this where they'd all sing the song? Hail to the Bus Driver? The bus driver. Man,

[00:09:58] Kyle Risi: I dunno. That one

[00:09:59] Adam Cox: really?

[00:09:59] [00:10:00] Hail to the Bus Driver. The bus driver. Man, Because If you've got a bus driver, you sing that to him

[00:10:06] Kyle Risi: and hail to the bus driver like you're getting him to stop.

[00:10:08] Adam Cox: I think he just like. I dunno singing to him about him.

[00:10:12] Kyle Risi: The only bus song I know is The Wheels on the Bus.

[00:10:14] Adam Cox: Yeah. No, this is way past that That's preschool. We're in school. School.

[00:10:19] Kyle Risi: Hey, I'm still living those glory days with all the mind games and the sexual politics. So Great. Back then.

[00:10:25] So on this last day of summer school on the 15th of July, 1976, it is [00:10:30] safe to say that this bus was inevitably rowdy. The kids who are high from the day's activities, they were all fool around. Even singing about a Baby shark, which I know isn't really relevant to the time, but kind of is because the biggest film of that year was Jaws.

[00:10:45] Adam Cox: So what was this song then? If it wasn't the Baby Shark song,

[00:10:48] Kyle Risi: they're probably just going. Oh yeah, there's like the precursor to Baby Shark.

[00:10:54] Adam Cox: Yeah. But that these are kids they should be watching that Jaws was like 15 elsewhere.

[00:10:59] Kyle Risi: Oh, I dunno. [00:11:00] I just, I don't know if they actually were singing the dinner.

[00:11:02] Dinner. Oh, I just needed to place an anchor of when this was taking place.

[00:11:06] Adam Cox: So allegedly they sang the Jaws theme tune.

[00:11:11] Kyle Risi: So Ed, he starts driving down an narrow road. He notices a white 1971 Dodge panel van parked, diagonally across the street. Both of its doors, Adam are open and at First Ed considers driving around it.

[00:11:24] But he also momentarily wonders whether or not they needed help. But before he could decide,

[00:11:29] a man [00:11:30] suddenly steps out from behind the van.

[00:11:31] Adam Cox: wearing overalls

[00:11:32] Kyle Risi: and a

[00:11:33] Adam Cox: revolver and over his head. Were

[00:11:35] Kyle Risi: a pair of pantyhose to disguise his features.

[00:11:38] Ah, okay. Very sophisticated disguise.

[00:11:42] it's so classic of 1970s, isn't it? Yeah.

[00:11:44] Adam Cox: Eighties. Yeah. And your face is just all mushed up and Yeah. Some very pantyhose before Ed could even register what was happening, the man started walking straight towards the bus. When Ed finally came to a halt, the man walked around to the bus door and told him to open it. What are you doing in that [00:12:00] situation?

[00:12:00] You'd open the door. That's exactly what Ed does well, he is got a revolver,

[00:12:03] Kyle Risi: he's got a gun.

[00:12:06] Ed does it. He opens the door. I have absolutely no idea what he's thinking in this moment. Like he literally has a vast load of children behind him. If a stranger with a revolver and pantyhose over his head demands you open the door. To me, that is not really an of course moment.

[00:12:22] Adam Cox: Oh, hang on. Sorry. I didn't realize, or I forgot that there's a busload of kids. I dunno if you'd do that. Would you not just drive off

[00:12:28] Kyle Risi: That's exactly it.

[00:12:29] Adam Cox: [00:12:30] Yeah.

[00:12:30] Kyle Risi: But Ed, he doesn't even stall. Like, if it was me, I'd be like, uh, what? Sorry, I can't hear you.

[00:12:36] Adam Cox: Take your, take your tights off.

[00:12:37] Yeah.

[00:12:38] Kyle Risi: Sorry. What did you say your name was? Oh, open the door. Okay, one second. And I'll just try to find the leave and then I'll just put my foot on the damn accelerator and just zoom off.

[00:12:47] Adam Cox: I guess there's a risk he could shoot at one of the kids, so this is maybe a way to, it's

[00:12:52] Kyle Risi: just one kid. It'll be fine.

[00:12:54] Adam Cox: I'm guessing this is gonna have a happy ending. Carl,

[00:12:57] Kyle Risi: the story does have a happy

[00:12:58] Adam Cox: ending.

[00:12:59] Kyle Risi: Either [00:13:00] way. Ed opens the door and as he does, two more men in matching overalls and panio masks. Start making a beeline for the bus. The first guy, is now on the bus. He points the revolver straight at Ed he orders everyone, including Ed to the back of the bus.

[00:13:15] At this point. The kids are going nuts. Some are terrified, but some have absolutely no sense of the danger that they're in. One kid remembers saying to Ed.

[00:13:24] If you do not get me home on time, my dad is gonna be on you like stink on [00:13:30] skunk.

[00:13:30] Like he's just not afraid. And it's because his whole life, he's never had a reason to be afraid of anything,

[00:13:36] Adam Cox: But then, I'm trying to think back in the seventies, maybe not as exposed to so much violence that by that point. Yeah. And so therefore by that point, if you've not been exposed to it, why would you not be more fearful and like the rest of the kids, they're clearly terrified he's got a gun.

[00:13:48] Kyle Risi: Yeah. But I reckon it's probably because they have been exposed to a lot. There's violence and gun violence on television with Magnum PI and Charlie's Angels and stuff that they see it as something quite glamorous [00:14:00] and yet they don't experience the. The danger that goes behind it. Yeah, people get shot on telli, but you don't see like the blood splitting out and stuff and them like dying.

[00:14:07] It's like very comical the way that they get shot on Telli. Do you know

[00:14:10] Adam Cox: what I mean? Yeah. But they've got like tights on their face, so therefore, that should be pretty scary to a child.

[00:14:15] Kyle Risi: I just think these kids are idiots Anyway, while he's arguing with Ed, the second guy boards and he makes a beeline for this little kid that's arguing with him and points a double barrel shotgun right in the kid's face.

[00:14:27] Adam Cox: Geez.

[00:14:28] Kyle Risi: And he is like, [00:14:30] gulp, and he gets it.

[00:14:31] So everyone crowds in the back of the bus. Of course, the school kids, they still commandeer the back row. No one's giving those up or anything. The third man of the group climbs into the driver's seat while the first guy gets back off of the bus he jumps into the van that was blocking the road and they start moving in convoy.

[00:14:48] Meanwhile, ed is doing everything he can to keep these kids calm One kid says that they've only ever seen guns like in the movies.

[00:14:58] So there's this weird mix of [00:15:00] excitement and adrenaline and fear all at once, just rushing through them. And I guess it's probably, a symptom of them seeing this kind of action on television in a more glamorized way.

[00:15:09] I'm convinced of it. It must be.

[00:15:11] Adam Cox: Is this a a time also before, I guess American school shootings, would that have been that common back then? I would've thought that's a more recent, from the nineties thing.

[00:15:20] Kyle Risi: Yeah. I think American kids are probably more aware of those types of dangers and they're probably like taught about it a lot more. But back then they probably, it just wasn't a thing. Like people being [00:15:30] shot up with guns and stuff was just a thing of the movie. Something that was glamorous and exciting.

[00:15:34] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm. Glamorous, I'm not sure, but yeah. In terms of exciting. Well, and

[00:15:37] Kyle Risi: And dangerous and, yeah, adrenaline fueled.

[00:15:39] Adam, it's only when Ed's tone shifts that starts settling in that this was bad. They'd never heard him really talk in this tone before. And so it's only now that they're starting to kind of sense the fear in his voice and he's demanding that they all just sit down, they face forward, they be quiet. They start to realize that actually the magnitude of the situation is actually quite [00:16:00] serious.

[00:16:00] Adam Cox: Yeah, this is not a teacher, this is a bus driver, so probably very friendly. Doesn't really tell them off really thing. So this is a very different ED that they're getting.

[00:16:09] Kyle Risi: cause normally he is all jolly and happy and please see the kids. But now, like he clearly means business, right? Mm-hmm.

[00:16:15] The bus continues following the white van in front and they drive for about a mile. Eventually they reach a thicket of bamboo where they see a green van waiting for them. As the bus pulls over, the white van pulls up almost door to [00:16:30] door with the actual bus. The men then order half of the kids to get into the waiting van.

[00:16:36] They sort of have to jump across like a couple feet. And the reason for that is because they don't want 'em to leave any footprints on the ground that might kind of leave some kind of indication that they were kidnapped.

[00:16:46] Mm-hmm.

[00:16:46] Again, even at this point, some of these kids, they still don't really register the danger that they're in because as the white van pulls away to allow the green van to then pull up, the gunman, shoves his shotgun into the gut of one of the girls that's [00:17:00] standing into the front of the queue he's like, stay back.

[00:17:02] Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

[00:17:04] She's a sassy little fucker. She says, what? I'm doing what you said. So Adam, she has no idea. Like, babe, he's got a gun.

[00:17:11] Adam Cox: Yeah, I'm surprised. I thought people would be way more freaked out or the kids would be way more freaked out. I think

[00:17:16] Kyle Risi: Maybe they're just really cocky.

[00:17:17] I don't know. Dunno what it is. Even back then, you would expect less back then.

[00:17:22] Adam Cox: Yeah, now I would be shocked if it didn't happen.

[00:17:25] Kyle Risi: What the sassy is.

[00:17:26] Adam Cox: Yeah,

[00:17:27] Kyle Risi: exactly.

[00:17:27] Uh, hang on. Are you okay? Yeah. Are you sick? Why are you not sass me? You're [00:17:30] being

[00:17:30] Adam Cox: compliant and polite.

[00:17:31] Kyle Risi: Yeah. So eventually the rest of the kids, they are ordered into the green van, both vans, have their windows blacked out and inside has been fitted with thick wooden panels.

[00:17:41] Basically they've been fitted to be like a mobile soundproof, like jail cell.

[00:17:46] Once the kids are in the vans, the doors slam shut. And Adam, it is pitch. Black in there. There's also no ventilation. It's also suffocatingly hot. Remember, this is the middle of the summer. A few moments later, both of the vans [00:18:00] start moving.

[00:18:00] If you were in this situation, what would you be thinking?

[00:18:04] Adam Cox: They must be thinking, well, if I'd been cocky, and now I'm in this like soundproof dark man, like

[00:18:10] Kyle Risi: I deserve this. I have this coming.

[00:18:12] Adam Cox: Yeah. This is dark. I mean, if you're a kid, you'd be terrified. Mm-hmm. Oh, anyone would be terrified.

[00:18:17] Really? You'd be wanting your family, your loved ones and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. So they're thinking of their parents and all sorts. Yeah. So there must be tears.

[00:18:24] you know, if they're split into two vans mm-hmm. Then Ed's clearly only with one of them. So what about the kids [00:18:30] that don't have an adult?

[00:18:30] Kyle Risi: Exactly. They don't have Ed with him. Right? Mm-hmm. And he's probably the only single source of comfort that they have in that moment. Right. Something that's familiar. Yeah. So it is absolutely terrifying.

[00:18:39] Adam, almost immediately, when the children don't arrive back at school on schedule, the parents inevitably start to worry.

[00:18:46] Ed has always been super reliable. Remember, this is a tiny town. Traffic delays aren't even a thing, so it only takes a few minutes of a delay to turn into mild concern.

[00:18:56] From there, that mild concern turns into suspicion and then [00:19:00] very quickly panic.

[00:19:01] And honestly, I'm still amazed, Adam, that Ed even opened that damn bus door in the first place.

[00:19:06] my first genuine thought was that Ed did this.

[00:19:10] Adam Cox: he's kind of a part of it.

[00:19:11] Kyle Risi: He must be a part of it. Yeah, that's what I thought. Initially. He's not, but that's a safe assumption to make, Yeah. Maybe it's just my skeptical brain kind of working over time.

[00:19:19] Adam Cox: I guess so. Because you just think you wouldn't do that, but then is the risk, maybe he wasn't thinking that they would just shoot at them anyway.

[00:19:27] But I'd

[00:19:27] Kyle Risi: rather risk that and tell the kids to get down. Right. Least I could scream [00:19:30] behind me.

[00:19:30] Adam Cox: That's true. Actually. Get down. I'm pedal to the metal

[00:19:33] Kyle Risi: Balls to the wall.

[00:19:35] Yeah. I just don't get why you just didn't drive off. It could be just like maybe muscle memory.

[00:19:39] Like after 20 years of just being a bus driver, your instincts are you stop, you let people on. You let people off,

[00:19:45] Adam Cox: and so there was someone waiting to get on with a gun. Oh, hang on. Let me just get that door for you.

[00:19:49] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Like a reflex, right even if it's someone that's wearing overalls and patios, it's like, rolls are rolls. And he's like,

[00:19:56] Adam Cox: shh. Do you have your bus there?

[00:19:57] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Have you got your bus pass? I [00:20:00] remember when I used to catch a bus when I was back at school every time. Did you ever catch the bus to school?

[00:20:05] Adam Cox: No.

[00:20:05] Kyle Risi: Well, every time you catch a bus to school, what you would normally find is that all the kids would've kind of thank the bus driver as they got off. Do you think that the kids, as they were getting off into the vans, they were all going like, thanks, ed. Thanks Ed. Thanks, ed.

[00:20:16] Adam Cox: Or they'll be like, thanks Ed.

[00:20:18] Kyle Risi: Do you just wait until my

[00:20:19] Adam Cox: dad hears about this?

[00:20:21] Kyle Risi: Yeah. the kidnappers were also, like being said, jumps off into the man?

[00:20:26] So a little while later. A few of the parents, they start driving around to see if they [00:20:30] can find the bus. They start crisscrossing dozens of the rural roads in the area. They drive up through the woods, et cetera. But in the end, Adam, they don't find anything.

[00:20:38] Eventually word gets back to the sheriff's office and after a couple hours of not locating the bus, the sheriff start scouting the area.

[00:20:46] Eventually around 8:00 PM just after sunset, the sheriff's office finally spots the bus and it's exactly where it was abandoned.

[00:20:54] Obviously this is a, a harrowing discovery for the parents. When they investigate, the sheriff [00:21:00] notices the tire tracks that were left by the two vans that are pulled up almost door to door.

[00:21:04] So to them this confirms that the kids have clearly been kidnapped, right. from there, it's literally balls to the wall as they scramble to work out. Who took the kids?

[00:21:13] the parents, they go ballistic as you would do, right? can you imagine like you're waiting for your kids to come back from a school trip only for the bus to disappear?

[00:21:22] Like that's unfathomable to me.

[00:21:25] Adam Cox: And also just having a load of kids being kidnapped. For what?

[00:21:29] Kyle Risi: [00:21:30] And what are the logistics of that? Fair enough, we know what they've done in this case, but even as a kidnapper, I would be terrified at the prospect of kidnapping 26

[00:21:38] kids.

[00:21:39] Adam Cox: I'd be petrified.

[00:21:41] That is true. Like kidnapping adults is one thing.

[00:21:44] They've done a great job. They have done a brilliant job. No one has kidnapped this many jobs willingly anyway,

[00:21:52] Kyle Risi: But basically all the parents can do is just form this vigil at the school and just stand by and wait for any news. Right.

[00:21:58] Adam Cox: To be honest, I imagine [00:22:00] all the parents being absolutely distraught because a whole class going missing, this is probably unheard of.

[00:22:07] Kyle Risi: Yeah, and again, going back to the fact there's 26 of them, like where are they? How you can't just, it's like having a flock of chickens. You let them all loose. Like there's gonna be one or two of them out there scurrying around. Mm-hmm. One of 'em is gonna show up. The fact that none of them have, that's fucking scary.

[00:22:21] Adam Cox: That must feel like a serious operation, if Yeah. A whole classroom goes right. Have the police got any clues at this point?

[00:22:28] Kyle Risi: Not yet. All [00:22:30] they know is that they have been taken because they can see the tire tracks on the road, but other than that, that's all they're working with.

[00:22:36] Mm-hmm. Meanwhile, ed and the kids, they of course, are still trapped inside these super hot blacked out vans. By this point, Adam, they have been driving nonstop for 11 hours.

[00:22:46] Adam Cox: 11 hours like they're just completely confined. Mm-hmm. And not allowed out or anything

[00:22:51] Kyle Risi: yeah, they have no water, no food. They've not even been able to take a pee break. I'm willing to bet that these kids have most deathly pissed themselves. At least one of them.

[00:22:59] Adam Cox: Some of the youngest [00:23:00] kids, absolutely.

[00:23:01] Kyle Risi: For the first few hours they do like bang on the wooden panels, like demanding that the kidnappers let them go. But Adam is just completely pointless.

[00:23:07] After another hour of solid driving around about 3:30 AM that morning, the vans finally come to a stop. They don't know this, but they're actually a hundred miles from where they've been taken.

[00:23:19] They have stopped basically in a rock quarry in Livermore. immediately, the doors to the van swing open Ed is ordered out first and behind him, the door slam [00:23:30] shut leaving the kids inside. So now they're pretty much alone.

[00:23:33] The kidnappers order him to remove his trousers and his boots, he's basically just standing there in his shirt.

[00:23:39] Then one by one, the van door swing open, and they start grabbing children.

[00:23:44] There's like three or four minutes between each one.

[00:23:46] Of course, nobody wants to be the next one They all think that they're literally being taken and killed So they all end up sort of scrambling towards the back of the van, hoping they won't be next.

[00:23:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:23:57] Eventually the door swings open for the [00:24:00] last time and the final kid is pulled out from the van. The kidnappers, shine a torch in her face and they demand to know her name they tell her if she doesn't answer, she'll never see her family again.

[00:24:11] Poor girl.

[00:24:12] They take down her name, her address, her phone number. They also demand an item of clothing from her, Adam, these kidnappers are organized. They feel like almost teachers taking a register.

[00:24:22] Adam Cox: And so are they taking a piece of clothing from every single child

[00:24:26] Kyle Risi: Essentially, yes, they're collecting the information so they can obviously contact the parents [00:24:30] and demand a ransom. And the clothing is proof that they actually have that person's kid.

[00:24:35] I don't know about Ed's clothing.

[00:24:36] Adam Cox: Yeah, because you said about that initially. And I went like, where's this going? Yeah. And then you just went And then the kid, they just started taking kids.

[00:24:41] Kyle Risi: I dunno.

[00:24:42] Adam Cox: Is that to show his wife that they've got him?

[00:24:44] Kyle Risi: Possibly. But again, with the other kids, they just took a shirt or a baseball cap or like a sock or something.

[00:24:49] Adam Cox: But maybe he had really nice boots.

[00:24:51] Kyle Risi: I love them.

[00:24:53] After this, each child is then ordered to climb down a ladder into what turns out to be essentially a lorry [00:25:00] container that they've lowered into a pit in the ground, they've buried it in several feet of quarry soil.

[00:25:05] So this thing is completely submerged.

[00:25:07] The only part that's exposed is the hatch that leads into the actual container itself via a ladder.

[00:25:12] But Adam, for all sense and purposes, this is their makeshift prison.

[00:25:16] Adam Cox: And this is just a regular sort of single container that would go on a ship or lorry or something like that.

[00:25:21] Kyle Risi: When I've seen pictures of them unbearing, the lorry. Mm-hmm. The container is attached to the lorry itself, so it can drive

[00:25:26] Adam Cox: right with you,

[00:25:27] Kyle Risi: but yeah, it's essentially a just a big [00:25:30] lorry, Once the last kid is inside, they remove the ladder and then they place this massive plate over the opening of the hatch. On top of that, they stack two 100 pound tractor batteries on top of it, and then they place a wooden box around that, which they then pack with tons and tons of soil.

[00:25:50] So it's safe to say they're essentially sealed in here. Inside it's pitch black, the kidnappers have supplied them with some stuff. They've given them several jugs of water. They [00:26:00] also have a few kind of mattresses as well. For food, they've been given a couple boxes of cereal, a couple loaves of bread, and a jumbo jar of peanut butter.

[00:26:08] Adam Cox: Oh, a jumbo jar. That's okay. Then jeez, these poor kids, are they thinking, okay, this is gonna be over real quick. They've got I dunno, it's like bread and breakfast and we'll have ransom money by tomorrow. of advice.

[00:26:21] Kyle Risi: They're expecting them to be in there till Sunday. It is, I think like Thursday.

[00:26:23] Adam Cox: Oh, okay.

[00:26:24] Kyle Risi: So they're clearly not giving them enough food. Mm-hmm. Basically two, the kids and obviously [00:26:30] Ed's relief, they do also leave them with a flashlight so at least they can see.

[00:26:34] Adam Cox: What about going to the toilet though?

[00:26:36] Kyle Risi: Ah, for number twos and number ones, the kidnappers cut out holes in the wheel. Arches, which for me, I think is worse than death. Like needing a number two and having your classmates watch you. That shit follows you around till the day you graduate. you'll always be known as the guy that had a poo in that container.

[00:26:53] Adam Cox: I mean, that's 26 and an adult. Mm-hmm. That need a poo. one an hour. You just, you can't [00:27:00] escape it, would you?

[00:27:00] Kyle Risi: Like your only option would be to leave town.

[00:27:02] Adam Cox: Because people have seen you poo.

[00:27:04] Kyle Risi: Yeah, can you imagine my bully watching me poo?

[00:27:06] Adam Cox: Maybe they like set some ground rules, so when everyone needs a poo, we'll turn off the flashlight . You know, you're not gonna be the only one.

[00:27:11] Kyle Risi: What if they all say, yeah, you go for a poo, we'll be right behind you, and they're not, and you get rescued and then you're the only one who's had a poo and your only option. it's to graduate and then leave town so it doesn't follow you. In fact, even if you leave town, years later, once you've had kids and grandkids, your grandkids will be calling you. Number [00:27:30] two, Sue,

[00:27:30] Adam Cox: it'll just come back to you. It'll haunt you. Yeah. And your job. And your marriage. PTSD, flashbacks, reunions.

[00:27:37] Kyle Risi: No, I don't think I can handle it,

[00:27:39] Adam Cox: to be honest. The kids have got other things to worry about.

[00:27:41] I imagine they must have a system whereby they turn off the torch and take it in turns possibly.

[00:27:47] Yeah.

[00:27:47] Kyle Risi: So, I dunno if this is better or if this is worse, but the kidnappers have now left. They've essentially just driven off. So now they're buried under tons of soil and there's nobody hanging around to make sure that this bunker can actually sustain [00:28:00] life.

[00:28:00] Adam Cox: But more importantly, for at least Now, what about air supply?

[00:28:04] Kyle Risi: There are two ventilation pipes like leading up to the surface, but he also notices that the airflow is like minimal.

[00:28:10] Mm-hmm. On top of this. The weight of the soil is stacked on top of the container, it's now starting to buckle and they can see the ceiling is now starting to bow inwards.

[00:28:20] Adam Cox: Oh shit.

[00:28:21] Kyle Risi: To them, it looks like it could collapse literally at any moment.

[00:28:24] Adam Cox: How much soil is on top then?

[00:28:26] Kyle Risi: Like tons. They're under like several feet of soil on top of them.

[00:28:29] Adam Cox: [00:28:30] so they've used clearly some like diggers and things like that to put soil back on top?

[00:28:34] Kyle Risi: Exactly. And they have the equipment because the inner literal quarry. So there's gonna be like forklifts and like diggers and stuff like that in the quarry.

[00:28:42] Adam Cox: So we haven't really spoken about who these men are, and I'm guessing we were at some point, but it feels to me that they're clearly, are they builders? Do they work in the quarry? Mm-hmm. Because they're operating equipment and machinery that, I don't know, you wouldn't be using. You probably used to be skilled at.

[00:28:56] Yeah. So gives me a clue as to who these people might be.

[00:29:00] Kyle Risi: Meanwhile, back in Chowchilla, police have no idea of course, what to do. It's quickly recognized that if these kids have been kidnapped this is actually the largest kidnapping case in US history.

[00:29:11] So as you can imagine, within hours. It is literally a full media frenzy that just engulfs the town. It becomes the biggest news story of the day, and to just give you some perspective, CCH is incredibly remote to get there. Reporters have to fly into Los Angeles. Then they have to drive five hours just to [00:29:30] reach the town.

[00:29:30] Those that can't drive or get a car, they literally take a cab from the airport, which ends up costing them between 400 and a thousand US dollars. Remember, that's 1976 money.

[00:29:42] Adam Cox: That is wild.

[00:29:43] Kyle Risi: A thousand dollars in 1976 is the equivalent of $5,708. That's today's money.

[00:29:52] Adam Cox: I don't think if we took a taxi ride for five hours, I don't think it'd be that much.

[00:29:56] Kyle Risi: I think it's because so many people were looking to get to this town, right? Mm-hmm. [00:30:00] So they were like, if you want to get there, it is gonna be three times the fair. Right. Hence why there was such a broad range of between $400 and a thousand dollars. Yeah. They're probably just capitalizing on the tragedy.

[00:30:09] I did read at the time that this was like one sixth of the average annual salary of the town at the time, so $5,700

[00:30:16] Adam Cox: annual salary.

[00:30:17] Kyle Risi: Yeah. So it's a lot of money just to get there.

[00:30:19] When the media do get there, naturally they start speculating about what had happened, right? Who took them. Some do speculate that it was domestic terrorism. Others wonder if this was the work of the [00:30:30] Zac who once threatened to target a bunch of schoolchildren, and of course they quickly point out that he was never caught. So he could still be out there.

[00:30:37] Adam Cox: He's been linked to, well, we say he, but he's

[00:30:40] Kyle Risi: always linked to everything.

[00:30:41] Yeah.

[00:30:41] Adam Cox: Pretty much every sort of murder case or missing case around that time.

[00:30:45] Kyle Risi: It's like when people go like, ah, it's aliens. It's never aliens.

[00:30:49] Adam Cox: Except for when it is.

[00:30:50] Kyle Risi: Except for when it is. In this case, it's like, ah, it's a zodiac. It's never the Zodiac until it is. Except what it's, They also speculate that maybe this was the work of the, [00:31:00] and here's gonna be a law test for you. The Symbionese Liberation Army.

[00:31:03] Adam Cox: Oh, what episode was this in? Mm, was it the, the, that lady Patsy. Patsy Patty Hirsch. Oh, that's it.

[00:31:12] Kyle Risi: Yeah. the radical group behind the Patti Hurs kidnapping, which unfolded just a couple years earlier. But of course with zero leads, police say they are literally not ruling out anything to them. The possibility of it being any one of these things was taken very seriously. Mm-hmm. At one point, reporters even start pointing the finger at [00:31:30] Ed,

[00:31:30] Adam Cox: which is what I said. Yeah, he did oblige and open that door. It did. But now he's trapped underneath all that earth. Exactly. So it's, go ahead. Obviously the reports don't dunno this or the police don't dunno this at this point.

[00:31:40] Kyle Risi: No, they don't.

[00:31:40] Adam Cox: So do they think that he is the suspect that's just kidnapped them and he's had some help based on the tire tracks?

[00:31:47] Kyle Risi: Honestly, at this point, they just don't know. Mm-hmm. I'm assuming that they possibly speculate that it's mostly the reporters that think that the people of the town do not think this, they've all known him for like 30 odd years.

[00:31:59] So they [00:32:00] trust him explicitly. He was their parents bus driver. The sheriff knows him. Everyone knows each other. So they don't necessarily think it was him

[00:32:06] Adam Cox: yeah. But when he gets back, I dunno if they're gonna let him drive the bus anymore. I

[00:32:11] Kyle Risi: don't think so.

[00:32:12] So the story of course is now national news. Investigators are suddenly inundated with thousands of phone calls from people basically saying that they've seen something suspicious. Some even go back months, Adam. People are literally calling up to report, seeing like a kid's shoe on the side of the road. Like three states away, four weeks ago.

[00:32:29] Adam Cox: And [00:32:30] how do they think that helps?

[00:32:32] Kyle Risi: They just think is gonna help. Right. That's a sign. Just any information is just information. Right. Right. But of course all of these need to be documented and needs to be investigated, and so it ends up just being too much for the police.

[00:32:44] The sheriff then decides that they need to call in the FBI . But at this point, Adam, there is concern and confusion because the kidnappers have not yet called in their ransom. Remember, they've been driving for 12 hours, they've dumped their kids.

[00:32:58] Why have they not called with [00:33:00] their demands? Right?

[00:33:00] Adam Cox: Yeah. So it must be getting towards like almost a day then at this point. Mm-hmm.

[00:33:05] Kyle Risi: The problem is this wasn't through a lack of trying, because for hours the kidnappers have frantically been trying to call in but with all the calls that are flooding into the station, they just can't get through.

[00:33:16] Adam Cox: Really?

[00:33:17] Kyle Risi: Yeah. The plan was to, of course, call and demand a ransom for $5 million in exchange for the safe return of the kids.

[00:33:25] They wanted the money in old untraceable bills divided between two [00:33:30] suitcases and delivered to the Oakland police station by 10:05 PM that Sunday. The plan was then to ring back with further instructions on how to arrange the exchange.

[00:33:41] So the kids were gonna be in their bunker for two more days. There is no way they're going to survive. The roof is almost caving in. The ventilation is shit. They've only got like one peanut butter sandwich each.

[00:33:53] Adam Cox: Yeah. I know they're not gonna have like the best conditions, you know, kidnapping tends to not allow for [00:34:00] that.

[00:34:00] But yeah, I don't feel like they've really thought this through. 'cause at the end of the day, in order to get the money, they need to give back the kids.

[00:34:06] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm. That's right. So the kidnappers, they keep trying throughout the night, they're just thinking what on earth is more important that they can't answer the damn phone basically, is what they're saying.

[00:34:14] Adam Cox: No other crime was being sawed at that point.

[00:34:16] Kyle Risi: Yeah. What if I'm being attacked? This is my textiles are going on so in the end, they just decide to give up and they decide that they're gonna try in the morning.

[00:34:24] Meanwhile, back in the bunker, ed and the kids have now been trapped at 'em for 12 [00:34:30] hours, right? So they've traveled for 12 hours and now they've been stuck in there for 12 hours. There's been a whole day since they disappeared.

[00:34:35] And the conditions, they are deteriorating fast. It's even hotter than it was when they first got in. The air is barely even circulating. And panic just keeps erupting in these waves.

[00:34:46] Ed, all he can do is just try his very best to try and keep the kids calm. But when he manages to calm the kids down, one of 'em freaks out, which then just ends up triggering the rest of 'em to freak out. it's just this endless wave of them panicking and [00:35:00] freaking out.

[00:35:00] I feel awful for them.

[00:35:01] Adam Cox: Understandably. Like they probably thinking the worst.

[00:35:04] Kyle Risi: They've never been in a bunker before. So it's partly lack of life experience.

[00:35:08] Adam Cox: Lack of life experience. Yeah, they've been through an ordeal. So yeah, I feel for Ed in a way.

[00:35:14] Kyle Risi: One of the oldest kids is 14-year-old Michael Marshall. Eventually he just gets fed up of Ed's lack of action in doing anything to help them out. So he decides that if he's going to die, he's at least going to die trying to escape.

[00:35:28] Adam Cox: How is he gonna escape [00:35:30] this?

[00:35:30] Kyle Risi: He gets the idea to start stacking the mattresses on top of one another so he can basically build a platform high enough so he can sort of reach the hatch so he can see if he can try it. They don't know that it's been packed with these tractor batteries and all that soil.

[00:35:44] Adam Cox: Yeah. So actually that's a fair point. Why have they not tried that already?

[00:35:48] Kyle Risi: Ed's concern is that if they did try and get out the latch, 'cause they don't know he is buried. The second they lift that up, there might be one of the kidnappers on the other side ready to shoot whoever pokes their head out. That's true. That's his [00:36:00] concern.

[00:36:00] Adam Cox: And also you've then got the ceiling bowing from the weight sparkling. Yeah. So therefore, actually you probably think something's on top of this.

[00:36:07] Kyle Risi: eventually Michael gets the pile as high as it will go, but it's still not enough to kinda reach the hatch. So Michael starts taking turns standing on the shoulders of some of the other kids, which gives him just enough height to try and push up against the manhole cover it doesn't budge.

[00:36:23] He then gives it everything he's got. All the kids are like cheering him on. They're like, Mike, you can do [00:36:30] it. suddenly it budges, but like a half a centimeter. basically what's happening is because it's not been packed down, it's just the soil's just been dumped on it. It's given it a little bit of way. I see. So you can kind of raise it up as it compacts it upwards,

[00:36:44] Michael just keeps pushing and with every push, the manhole cover just kind of compacts, like another millimeter of dirt upwards. It gives him the tiniest bit more movement. And slowly, with every push, the batteries that are on top of the manhole cover, they start to kind [00:37:00] of shift slightly off center just a little bit, allowing him to get even more lift the more he pushes.

[00:37:05] So it's kinda like vibrating the batteries off the center. Do you understand what I mean?

[00:37:09] Adam Cox: I think so. But then is there not a risk of any like soil or dirt, like getting into the storm? Oh yeah.

[00:37:14] Kyle Risi: It's spilling in. Mm-hmm. It's not huge at the moment, but it's gonna become a problem in a second. Adam, he pushes for two hours. This guy is relentless. Eventually he has enough lift to be able to slip a wooden slap through the gap, Which will let him wedge the [00:37:30] manhole cover even harder than before.

[00:37:32] he keeps doing this until the batteries fully clear the cover, and now he can literally slide the manhole cover to kind of the side, which gives him enough room just to kind of squeeze up and through.

[00:37:43] Adam Cox: But then how can he squeeze up and through? What's he now squeezing into? If there's soil? It is soil though. Yeah.

[00:37:49] Kyle Risi: He now literally has to start digging away the soil. Of course, he has no idea how much of it is in there, right?

[00:37:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:37:56] So he's amazing. if it was me, we would've suffocated

[00:37:59] Adam Cox: I would not be [00:38:00] relying on you.

[00:38:00] Kyle Risi: So by this point, it's been a full day since they were buried and the food has gone apparently like like I said earlier on, they only had enough food for one single meal anyway, so they're starving.

[00:38:10] The ventilators that are connected to the two pipes, they've completely stopped working as well. So there's no air coming into the actual container itself, and the roof is now dangerously close to caving in. Apparently what makes this worse is one of the boys who kept kicking the blocks from underneath the four by four pillars that were literally holding the roof up.

[00:38:29] So even [00:38:30] in this life and death situation, you always have one kid who's been a prick.

[00:38:34] Adam Cox: You'd think like they'd be obedient in that situation.

[00:38:37] Kyle Risi: I guess, I guess no matter what age. Your kid is from,

[00:38:41] Adam Cox: you've just got this energy, right? Yeah. And even if like you are confined, whatever, how are you gonna burn that energy and

[00:38:47] Kyle Risi: kicks and blocks out? Kill us all?

[00:38:49] Adam Cox: Yeah. I try to police that. Ed must be stressed.

[00:38:53] Kyle Risi: Yeah, he is Michael. Meanwhile, he's still digging he keeps digging all the soil as much as organic. He's pushing it away, he's pack, [00:39:00] taking it up, he's pushing, pulling it into the container when suddenly as he's digging, array of sunlight breaks through the opening, it catches the dust in the air and all the kids say it looked like shooting stars just filling up the compartment.

[00:39:16] Oh wow.

[00:39:16] Even from that tiny gap, they said that they could feel the airflow just rushing in and hitting their faces in that moment, so I can imagine that relief. But they say that it's this moment that they knew. They were now free.

[00:39:29] Adam Cox: So [00:39:30] Michael has climbed through how many feet?

[00:39:32] Like we know it's tons of dirt, but how many feet of dirt? I'm trying to work out how he can do this without, suffocating, but I'm guessing the dirt is so loose.

[00:39:40] Kyle Risi: loosen up for him to kind of dig his way through. Mm-hmm. And thank God the dirt was stacked inside this kind of makeshift box.

[00:39:47] Mm-hmm. If they just stacked it on top, then there's endless amounts of soil that will just keep rushing in because it's all contained inside this box. It meant that there was a finite amount of soil. Mm-hmm. So it's amazing.

[00:39:58] Michael, of course, [00:40:00] he bravely opts to be the first one to crawl out. Obviously he's terrified that the kidnappers will be standing guard and the second he pokes his head out, they're gonna shoot him.

[00:40:09] Thankfully the kidnappers. Are not standing guard. From there, one by one, Michael starts helping the other kids out and they said as they emerged the surroundings looked like the sets of the Flintstones because there were excavators and convey belts all around.

[00:40:24] And it's because they were in a rock quarry which I mentioned before was a hundred miles from where they were [00:40:30] originally taken.

[00:40:30] Adam Cox: So a hundred miles just thinking about it, that's. That's not a 12 hour journey if you're going at a regular speed. So were they driving around several times to make it, I guess them not aware of where they were going.

[00:40:42] Kyle Risi: They were basically driving around in all sorts of directions, strategically dropping items out of the window to kind of throw the cops off. So they'll drive like maybe 200 miles in this direction, drop a couple things, and then drive back. And that's essentially why they were driving for so long.

[00:40:57] So after everyone gets out, Michael [00:41:00] reportedly makes a run for it, at first, like, this sounds like a weird thing to do, but in his mind it. He was thinking that if the kidnappers came back and recaptured everyone, at least he would be away from the group that he could then run off and try and get help.

[00:41:12] Adam, he's 14 years old. He's so smart.

[00:41:14] Adam Cox: Yeah, he is. He is brave.

[00:41:16] Kyle Risi: But people say like you never split up. But this sounds like one of the few times where that actually makes sense.

[00:41:21] Adam Cox: you'd think they'd go off maybe in like, maybe not by himself. 'cause I still think that's pretty risky. Mm-hmm. 'cause if he gets into trouble, you'd want to go off into like maybe a few different [00:41:30] groups.

[00:41:30] Kyle Risi: In pairs or small groups. Yeah, around eight. PMM Ed then leads the children down and nearby dirt road until they stumble basically across. A set of quarry workers. What is wild is that when the workers see them, they think they're trespasses like the shadow. We figure surrounded by all these tiny kids with dirty faces and they're all thinking They're here to steal our sand. These five year olds. Yeah. What

[00:41:51] Adam Cox: are they stealing in a quarry? Exactly.

[00:41:53] Kyle Risi: By the way, ed is still in his underpants.

[00:41:56] Adam Cox: I mean, imagine like now you got a bus with Ed. Now you're like, I've seen everything [00:42:00] out. You can't hide anything from me.

[00:42:01] Kyle Risi: Poor Ed.

[00:42:02] Ed basically turns to them and says, we are the guys from Cal, and the workers just say, oh. You are the one that the whole world has literally been looking for

[00:42:11] Adam Cox: they don't seem that impressed. No, they don't. Oh. Oh.

[00:42:15] Kyle Risi: So the great news is that Ed and the kids are safe. There's been no casualties, no one's died. It's a happy story.

[00:42:21] Adam Cox: That is good news. I kind of knew that they were gonna be okay. Otherwise I'd be a lot more serious and respectful.

[00:42:27] Kyle Risi: So soon the police arrive, they are now of course, [00:42:30] dealing with an act of crime scene. They transport the kids to safety, which I imagine triggers Major PTSD because Adam, they're transported on a bus.

[00:42:39] Adam Cox: Yeah. It's better than a, like a van that's been boarded up and blocked out and everything.

[00:42:43] Kyle Risi: Either a van or a bus. I would not be wanting to get onto another bus. I'd want something of windows. Do you think they made Ed drive the bus?

[00:42:51] Adam Cox: I don't think, no.

[00:42:52] Kyle Risi: Do you think he is like, ed, this is your time for redemption? And he's like, yep. I've never not successfully completed a school run. I'm [00:43:00] not about to start now.

[00:43:01] Adam Cox: I'm gonna drop these kids off. I'll get you home, Timmy, back

[00:43:05] Kyle Risi: at the pool.

[00:43:06] Adam Cox: Um, but yeah, but I felt like Ed has kind of, has he crumbled in this? Has he helped? At the moment, he isn't necessarily the hero in this. Exactly.

[00:43:14] Kyle Risi: He is dubbed as the hero of the story, in my view. It's Michael.

[00:43:18] Adam Cox: Yeah. He's the one that got the kids out. Yeah.

[00:43:21] Kyle Risi: And Ed got their kids in this mess in the first place. Yeah.

[00:43:23] Adam Cox: But I always had this recollection that Ed somehow was a little bit more like, ah, you know, he kept them under control. [00:43:30] He was helping all this sort of stuff.

[00:43:31] Kyle Risi: he probably had a hand in it, but from my. Reading of this and watching the documentary on this, it was Michael that seemed to do a lot of the work and a lot of the heavy lifting and was like, if I'm gonna die in this container, I'm going to die trying to escape.

[00:43:45] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:43:45] Kyle Risi: And so to me it was him who was the hero

[00:43:47] so they're now heading to safety. They've been loaded up on these buses. The only thing worse than herding them to safety on a bus is that the place of safety is essentially the local prison [00:44:00] because it's the only facility that's large enough to hold them all.

[00:44:02] Apparently,

[00:44:03] Adam Cox: there's not the closest one? Mean, you mean like there's not a church, you're taking them to a prison.

[00:44:06] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:44:06] Adam Cox: That does not make sense to me.

[00:44:08] Kyle Risi: The regard for child wellbeing in the seventies just isn't there?

[00:44:12] came to a supermarket anywhere. Prison. At the prison, they're all given apples and sodas. A bunch of doctors are called in to evaluate them. Incredibly. All of them are given the all clear apart from one kid who has a stress nose bleed. Another kid, he feels a bit nauseous and then like another one, faints or [00:44:30] something.

[00:44:30] Adam Cox: He just wants attention, you know? Oh yeah, me too.

[00:44:32] Kyle Risi: So by this point the facility is all of a sudden surrounded by press. They're all desperate to speak to Ed, but he refuses eventually though, at 4:00 AM when it is clear that the press are not going anywhere, he finally agrees to talk to them on one condition that they're not allowed to ask him any questions.

[00:44:51] Which is smart, I guess, because he has been found after two days with 26 kids and the whole time he's just been wearing pants.

[00:44:59] Don't forget, [00:45:00] at one point they, were suspecting him of doing this.

[00:45:02] Adam Cox: Yeah. So by him agreeing to speak to the press, he's just gonna give his account of events.

[00:45:07] Kyle Risi: Exactly,

[00:45:08] Adam Cox: yeah. And not ask anything. That's quite interesting though, to not ask any questions like what prior press conference? There's no questions.

[00:45:15] Kyle Risi: I guess he's just too potentially traumatized to answer those types of questions.

[00:45:19] Adam Cox: Yeah. And I guess it's not the focus just to get the kids back with the parents right now.

[00:45:23] Kyle Risi: Yeah. But this is the press. This is also a big story that people have been invested in the last couple days, right. I guess also maybe part of it [00:45:30] is, like I said, he's cautious because he doesn't know how he's gonna be received by the press, who, as we said, was suspecting him.

[00:45:38] But in the end, he goes out, he gives his statements, all he says is me and a couple of the other older kids, figured the only way to get out was the way that we came in. We didn't have no ladder. We stacked up those mattresses and box springs to reach the hole. So basically, what we just went through. Mm-hmm. After that, there is zero question about him at all.

[00:45:59] Like he is [00:46:00] dubbed the hero of the story, but as we've already said, in my view, it's Michael who's the hero. Right. That kid is just amazing. Let us not forget that it was Ed that led the kidnappers into the bus in the first place. Mm-hmm. Thanks, ed.

[00:46:13] Adam Cox: It's true.

[00:46:15] Kyle Risi: So now of course we have the small matter of the kidnappers.

[00:46:17] Adam Cox: Yes. I think they've gotta be either people that work at the quarry or some kind of builders. Right.

[00:46:23] Kyle Risi: So of course the first thing that the cops do is they dig out this massive truck container hoping that it'll offer some evidence [00:46:30] that will lead to them.

[00:46:31] They don't get much next, they decide to try and hypnotize Ed. And I don't know what it is about the 1970s in their obsession with hypnotism, but that's two episodes back to back now where the cops have hypnotized someone and.

[00:46:44] Adam Cox: Are they expecting him just to reveal some clue that he doesn't know consciously?

[00:46:49] Kyle Risi: Exactly. That, yeah. Under hypnosis, ed manages to recall the license plate from one of the vans and part of the second one. Really? Yeah. So using that information, the cops managed to trace [00:47:00] the vans to a warehouse in San Jose that were leased by a man named Fred Woods.

[00:47:06] Adam Cox: Wow. Mm. Under hypnotism. Yeah.

[00:47:09] Okay. that's pretty impressive,

[00:47:11] Kyle Risi: but that's the thing though. I like always dubious about hypnosis, especially after we did the Hillside Strangler case where he was blatantly faking it, right?

[00:47:17] Mm-hmm. But maybe it's because he had maybe said, I think I'd seen it. Can you help me? I dunno, hypnotize me to try and get it out. Me, yeah. Do you think maybe it's like a way to relax him?

[00:47:26] Adam Cox: It must be a tactic. Yeah. Like he can say, ah, maybe started [00:47:30] with this or that, and then they do the hypnosis and he can at least be more descriptive.

[00:47:35] Kyle Risi: So as they look into this guy, Fred Woods, they find out that his father owned the quarry where Ed and the kids had been buried.

[00:47:44] Adam Cox: Okay.

[00:47:45] Kyle Risi: The cops were then able to then issue a warrant for the Woods family estate and there, Adam, they find all of the guns that were used in the kidnapping.

[00:47:53] But by this point, the kidnappers are long gone. Apparently after they gave up trying to call the police and went for a nap, they [00:48:00] woke up to the news that the kids had been found. And so basically that was their cue to just get the hell out of there

[00:48:06] Adam Cox: and to a runner, so they were connected to the quarry after all. Mm-hmm. Which is what I suspected

[00:48:11] Kyle Risi: as well as the guns. They also find more than 4,000 pieces of evidence that link these guys to the kidnapping.

[00:48:19] 4,000.

[00:48:20] 4,000. It's an astonishing amount of evidence. For three days, I worked it out. It's 55.5 pieces of evidence for every [00:48:30] hour that the kids were missing. How is it so much?

[00:48:32] Adam Cox: How many pieces of evidence per child would you put it like that? Yeah. So what, yeah, what.

[00:48:37] Kyle Risi: The most important piece of evidence that they find was a document that they called the plan.

[00:48:43] Adam Cox: Oh God. So it's just a diary? Yes.

[00:48:47] Kyle Risi: It basically mapped out everything from how they intended to carry out the kidnapping to the groceries, to buy, to feed the kids.

[00:48:55] Adam Cox: Very, hang on. They, they needed a grocery list to buy some bread and [00:49:00] peanut butter.

[00:49:00] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And

[00:49:00] Adam Cox: corn complex. Yeah. I guess they just wrote it

[00:49:03] Kyle Risi: down.

[00:49:03] So they had

[00:49:03] Adam Cox: A checklist. They needed to write that down. Three items.

[00:49:06] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:49:07] Adam Cox: Oh my God.

[00:49:08] Kyle Risi: Just makes sense. They're organized. Adam, I'd do the same.

[00:49:10] Adam Cox: Okay.

[00:49:10] Kyle Risi: Can you imagine telling your mom to not write down a list? She'd freak out.

[00:49:14] Yeah. They always need

[00:49:15] Adam Cox: a list.

[00:49:15] Kyle Risi: You

[00:49:16] Adam Cox: always need a list. I'm surprised they didn't get to the store and go, oh God. Was it bread or was it crackers?

[00:49:20] Kyle Risi: Didn't your mom used to maintain the list and on it was exercise adam.

[00:49:24] Adam Cox: Yeah, she would make sure I got my daily exercise.

[00:49:26] Kyle Risi: See? So some people are just naturally [00:49:30] inclined to be more organized and they write things down.

[00:49:32] Adam Cox: Okay. But I think these people, they've written too much down.

[00:49:36] Kyle Risi: Yes, exactly. Hence why it's 4,000 pieces of evidence.

[00:49:39] They also, write down various contingencies in case things go wrong the cops also quickly pieced together who they are from this document.

[00:49:47] So alongside Fred Woods, was two other men. They were brothers, Richard and James Schoenfeld, which I guess is German. Basically the three of them were school friends and they all come from [00:50:00] extremely wealthy families. So these guys are Richie, rich. Rich, like Fred's dad owns a quarry for God's sake.

[00:50:07] Adam Cox: So if they're rich mm-hmm.

[00:50:09] Why are they asking for money? Have they been cut out of the will or something?

[00:50:12] Kyle Risi: No. So basically despite obviously their family's wealth, the three of them have got involved in some real bad investments and they end up losing a ton of money. So they were in a shit ton of debt. Their motivation for the kidnapping comes to a head.

[00:50:26] When I think it's James's dad, he gives him some money to buy a [00:50:30] Jaguar, but after he buys it, he doesn't have enough money to pay for the insurance. Their bad investments meant they couldn't basically maintain the lifestyle that they were trying to aim for. So all of this was because he couldn't buy insurance on a Jaguar.

[00:50:43] Adam Cox: Wow. So why don't they, I don't know, get another car?

[00:50:47] Kyle Risi: Well, it, he had to sell the car basically at the end. He had to sell the

[00:50:49] Adam Cox: car.

[00:50:50] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And he didn't want to, so he sold the car begrudgingly. So initially they do take the honest route. One of those is that they decided that they're gonna break into the entertainment [00:51:00] industry.

[00:51:00] Adam Cox: Oh, actually I thought when you said break in, I thought like, do a robbery? No.

[00:51:04] Kyle Risi: Like make it in entertainment. Uhhuh, their idea was to write a screenplay, which they would then sell. And the screenplay was a story about committing the perfect crime.

[00:51:13] When they finished writing it, they all agreed that the screenplay was so good and the crime was so perfect. It would be a damn shame if they didn't actually commit the crime for real.

[00:51:23] Adam Cox: Oh, so this is the instance of where it was made into a movie or a screenplay? Yes. And then they,

[00:51:29] Kyle Risi: that's why they had so much [00:51:30] evidence every line that they wrote was a piece of evidence that is ridiculous.

[00:51:36] And the screenplay, Adam, is not even an original idea, is basically a ripoff of Dirty Harry starring Clint Eastwood. Oh, where in it, the villain steals a pistol from a liquor store. He ends up hijacking a school bus and ends up demanding a ransom.

[00:51:49] And in the film, Clint Eastwood, he like jumps onto the roof of the bus from like an overpass or something, and in the end of the bus ends up crashing into a quarry mound and the bad guy gets [00:52:00] away. And so basically their great screenplay, the one that inspired all of this, was essentially plagiarized from an existing film.

[00:52:06] Adam Cox: So they took that storyline and went actually know that's just bury the bus or a truck in the quarry. Yeah.

[00:52:13] Kyle Risi: The original plan was to demand $5 million from the Californian State Board for education, which had just reported several hundred million dollars in like surplus kind of revenue or something making them. the kidnapper's minds like the perfect target. Right. Do you want to [00:52:30] have a guess what they plan to do with the ransom money?

[00:52:32] Adam Cox: Either pay off their debts or invest in some really other bad decisions. Probably

[00:52:37] Kyle Risi: they were gonna buy a bunch of expensive cars. Okay. That was it.

[00:52:41] Adam Cox: What if they were so confident on their screenplay? Why didn't they take that to Hollywood and get the rights from that?

[00:52:46] Kyle Risi: I guess they wish they had done that now, right? Since they've been busted.

[00:52:49] Adam Cox: Or were they thinking, oh, do the kidnap, then turn it into a screenplay. We'll then sell those rights and they'll double double that money.

[00:52:56] Kyle Risi: Ah, yeah. Oh, it's a risky move though. Because what if they get caught retrospectively,

[00:52:59] Adam Cox: [00:53:00] but Oh, no, no. The guy and our screenplays called dead, not Ed. Yeah. Um, but then also how, I'm just really dubious about if you ever try and steal money or get ransom money, because how often do you get that money? Mm-hmm.

[00:53:14] And secondly, if you did get that money, it's gonna be like, you're gonna be like tapped, or the money's gonna, yeah, I know they said untraceable, but there's gonna be a way that they're gonna try and trick you and find you out.

[00:53:25] Oh yeah, for sure. So how do people, how do criminals think that they're gonna get away with it?

[00:53:28] Kyle Risi: I think it's the seventies and [00:53:30] people just don't have like the knowledge. So that so sounds so cocky, but I guess we know a lot more, I don't know the pitfalls of these stupid plans sometimes.

[00:53:40] Adam Cox: So what you're telling me is that you would've stole and done this exact same plant if you were born in the seventies.

[00:53:45] Kyle Risi: Probably. I would've been an idiot. I would've been like, they're not gonna catch us.

[00:53:48] Adam Cox: Yeah. I'm, I bet.

[00:53:49] Kyle Risi: Yeah, because the entire idea started as a screenplay. It read like stage directions like an extract from the plan says conceal kids, hide the [00:54:00] vans go somewhere to collect the money.

[00:54:02] Rick will get a plane to take James to a small uncontrolled airport like Laie. They'll meet Fred. Fred will then hijack a plane. Rick and Fred will then load dummies into the plane with parachutes in and extra parachutes, of course.

[00:54:18] Adam Cox: What's that for?

[00:54:19] Kyle Risi: At first I wasn't entirely clear. I wasn't sure whether or not they were planning on throwing the kids outta the plane.

[00:54:23] Adam Cox: But then dummies, were they gonna throw dummies out, which looked like kids so people would

[00:54:26] Kyle Risi: not, I think they were gonna throw the dummies outta the plane so it looked [00:54:30] like them. Okay. So the plane could keep on going and then the cops would just think that they jumped out the plane, therefore creating a decoy Basically it's DB Cooper vibes all over again. 'cause that's kind of what he did. But he actually did jump outta the plane, but they were gonna make it look like they jumped outta the plane to create a decoy.

[00:54:46] Adam Cox: I see. So they're looking at the men jumping out the plane and then they see the plane still going and go.

[00:54:51] Kyle Risi: How is that

[00:54:51] Adam Cox: still flying?

[00:54:52] Kyle Risi: Oh no. 'cause they were gonna hijack the plane.

[00:54:54] Adam Cox: Oh, okay.

[00:54:54] Kyle Risi: Remember the 1970s lots of hijackings were going on. Ah, right. But for a [00:55:00] minute I did think that they were gonna take the kids onto the planes and throw them out.

[00:55:03] Adam Cox: That's why they needed parachutes. I think that feels quite elaborate.

[00:55:07] Kyle Risi: Can you imagine trying to tell a, a 5-year-old kid to like pull the cord when you get to like 8,000 miles? 8,000, yeah, 8,000 feet. Sorry. That poor kid.

[00:55:16] Adam Cox: That feels very elaborate. Okay. So they had a really, what I like about this plan is they had like stakeholder, like management where they said Steve, you do this, Dave, you'll be doing, you are responsible for getting the plane.

[00:55:28] So they could mark it off when they have [00:55:30] their like, regular meetings. So Dave, did you get the plane? Dave, your name's down the here.

[00:55:34] Kyle Risi: Dave, you've been very negative. This isn't the space for negativity. It's about positivity.

[00:55:39] Adam Cox: You are, you're not pulling your weight. Everyone's done their roles, you haven't done yours.

[00:55:43] Kyle Risi: What have you brought to this plan, this evil plan. And then every so often they'd be like, should we stop and do the evil plan? Laugh? Like, ha. You'd be like, it's not Santa's plan.

[00:55:58] But also in the plan, there were some really [00:56:00] bizarre details one of them was buy Ronald Reagan bumper stickers to put on our cars so we can fit in.

[00:56:06] So I'm not quite sure how that computes for me. Is it that Republicans don't normally kidnap kids? I don't know.

[00:56:13] Adam Cox: Were they in a state which is the Democrats and so they're like, we need a bumper sticker so people don't suspect that we don't belong.

[00:56:21] Kyle Risi: Yeah. I dunno. It's weird. Mm. Another section of their notes reads, get infrared to see at night. So it's quite elaborate. I don't know where they're gonna get the money from. This [00:56:30] also acquire x-ray truck and gas masks with lead vests. So it's really elaborate Why do they need them?

[00:56:39] Adam Cox: got to that part of the plan, I guess. Exactly.

[00:56:42] Kyle Risi: This is my exact point, because so much of the plan is unfinished. A good example of this is when they talk about collecting the ransom money, they write, pick up the money using illusion like magic.

[00:56:52] Adam Cox: Now I wish they got away with it just to see what the rest of it would turn out like.

[00:56:58] Kyle Risi: So clearly they were just [00:57:00] still trying to figure out. Big swathes of this plan and presumably the magic part, they're just gonna figure out on the day.

[00:57:05] Adam Cox: Oh, right. That's quite crazy that they've got this much thought into the plan and the very bit about getting away with it. We'll just see what happens on the day.

[00:57:14] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly. Which feels like exactly a detail that you probably want to lock down before you do anything. Yeah. Like how are we actually gonna get the money? Don't worry. We'll figure it out in the day.

[00:57:23] Adam Cox: You need a shopping list for three items. Yeah, but you can't work out that.

[00:57:29] Kyle Risi: Uh, the [00:57:30] best bit is at the bottom of the plan they wrote because they're so organized.

[00:57:34] Burn this notebook burn after

[00:57:38] Adam Cox: reading,

[00:57:38] Kyle Risi: which of course they didn't. And so this becomes the single biggest piece of evidence against them. It is amazing. It also turns out that the reason they chose to kidnap the kids for ransom was because they believed their kids wouldn't put up a fight. They said it would literally be like taking candy from a baby.

[00:57:55] Adam Cox: They didn't meet that little boy at the Exactly.

[00:57:58] Kyle Risi: They underestimated [00:58:00] Michael Marshall.

[00:58:01] So now Adam, these guys are on the run. The cops, they launch a nationwide search. Literally, their faces are plastered everywhere. They are all over the news. Unless they got out of the country, the odds of them not being spotted is next to none, which is why after a week on the run, Richard decides that he's gonna turn himself into the cops he arrived at the police station. With his family's very expensive lawyer in tow. Right? It's like, I'm here to surrender. Here's [00:58:30] my lawyer.

[00:58:30] Adam Cox: Okay. He's prepared.

[00:58:31] Kyle Risi: Fred and James, they stay together in a safe house in Reno for a while. Every time there's a crime, like in that side of the country, it's always Reno, right? I just always feel like Reno always comes up when it comes to kind of sleazy, dodgy, ordinary working class criminals.

[00:58:45] Adam Cox: What about all of our listeners in Reno?

[00:58:47] Kyle Risi: If we have any listeners in Reno, I'd love to hear

[00:58:50] Adam Cox: They're all criminals.

[00:58:52] Kyle Risi: So while James and Fred are in this house in Reno, behind James' back, Fred arranges a fake passport to be [00:59:00] delivered to the house. When it's delivered, he abandons James and he makes a run for it, and he flies to Vancouver. What a scumbag. He's left his buddy. Mm-hmm.

[00:59:09] So with Fred now gone, James decides that he's now going to try and cross the US Canadian border too. drives all the way up to the border. When he gets there, the guards notice how nervous and shifty he's being.

[00:59:21] So naturally they decide to pull him over and search his car. And Adam, it's full of guns. Oh God. [00:59:30] What's wild is they don't arrest him. They just say you can't enter Canada with this many guns,

[00:59:36] Adam Cox: and you're looking really nervous. So we're gonna let you, but we just need to take a few off you.

[00:59:41] Kyle Risi: No, what they do is they turn him away. Okay. They say to you can either surrender the guns, you can come in, but

[00:59:45] Adam Cox: and he doesn't wanna surrender the guns.

[00:59:46] Kyle Risi: So he turns back, he drives to the nearest gun shop, he sells them all of his guns, and then heads back to the border again.

[00:59:54] But he forgets that Fred had stash, four more guns in the center console and in the boot. And [01:00:00] again, when he gets there, they search the car again and they're like, mate, four guns, there's too much guns.

[01:00:06] Adam Cox: This is ridiculous.

[01:00:07] Kyle Risi: So like, In The end, he drives shadow. When he's there, he decides to swap his car out for a van. His thinking is that if he keeps changing vehicles, then he can stay ahead of the police.

[01:00:17] But Adam, his face is literally everywhere and his paranoia at this point is just spiraling outta control. Anyone who even glances at him just sets him off and eventually he decides to surrender. But before he can manage to get to [01:00:30] a police station, he's spotted in Menlo Park in California, and basically they arrest him.

[01:00:35] And that same day Fred is spotted in Vancouver and he has arrested too.

[01:00:39] Adam Cox: Ah, he's found as well.

[01:00:40] Kyle Risi: Yeah. So the cops have got them all, their bail is set to $1 million, which Fred's response is, ah, it's a bit high now. Each of them face three main sets of charges, 27 counts of kidnapping for ransom. Wow. one for each of the 26 kids and Ed.

[01:00:57] Mm-hmm. They also face 18 [01:01:00] separate counts of robbery as well, and also three counts of kidnapping with bodily harm. They initially plead not guilty.

[01:01:07] Prosecutors end up offering them a deal, which in exchange for pleading guilty to the kidnapping for ransom, the state will drop the 18 robbery charges. Basically, this will help them avoid a longer, more expensive trial, but also potentially harsher penalties, which is mental 'cause like kidnapping 26 kids is not as serious as robbery,

[01:01:28] Adam Cox: essentially.

[01:01:29] Kyle Risi: [01:01:30] That's what they're saying. Yeah. Anyway, they accept the plea deal.

[01:01:32] However, the three counts of kidnapping with bodily harm charges, those have to be filed separately and they can't be negotiated under this plea deal on accounts of how serious they are.

[01:01:42] If found guilty, Adam, they each face life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. So naturally their intention is to fight these, right? They're pleading not guilty and they're going to go to trial. They're fully expecting to face a jury trial. The prosecution, however, they [01:02:00] want to nail these fuckers. They know that if they go to trial for kidnapping with bodily harm, the jury will likely find them innocent.

[01:02:07] Adam Cox: Really,

[01:02:08] Kyle Risi: I'll explain why in a second. So the prosecution, they present their evidence to a bench hearing where they argue that the charges for kidnapping with bodily harm were indisputable and that a jury was not needed.

[01:02:21] They say that the facts spoke for themselves that three kids were gravely harmed in the process of this kidnapping. Amazingly, the judge agrees, [01:02:30] and so he finds them guilty and in the end they are sentenced to life in prison.

[01:02:34] So let's talk about these charges that were indisputable according to the prosecution.

[01:02:40] Remember all Of the kids were fine apart from three of them. The kid with a nosebleed,

[01:02:45] Adam Cox: the one that fainted,

[01:02:46] Kyle Risi: the one that fainted, and the one that felt nauseous, these were all classified as bodily harm. Wow. And they convinced the judge that they were indisputable, and so they were sentenced to life in prison [01:03:00] without the possibility of parole for causing a nosebleed nausea and a fainting spell.

[01:03:05] Adam Cox: Wow. That what? What did you get down for? Well, no sleep. I mean, oh, you take that out of the equation. I think even as humorous as that is, what they actually did is very serious. Yes. And yes, they should be behind bars for a long time. Yes. Because 27 people. Could have died. But that is wild.

[01:03:27] And is that why a jury would've found them innocent of that? [01:03:30] 'cause they're like, that's stupid. Can we not just get them for the 27 counts of Exactly. They

[01:03:33] Kyle Risi: wouldn't have found them guilty for a nosebleed. They wouldn't have constituted a nosebleed, a fainting spell. And nausea as bodily harm.

[01:03:39] However, Adam in 1980, they do manage to appeal. In the end, the court rules that the kids' injuries were insufficient to qualify as bodily harm under Californian law. And so their conviction is essentially overturned. Instead all three end up with life in prison with. The possibility of parole. [01:04:00] And that's exactly what they do. Literally every other year they file appeal after appeal, after appeal.

[01:04:06] And every time they are rejected until 2012 when Richard succeeds and is eventually released with James following in 2015.

[01:04:16] And in total they end up serving 36 years in prison.

[01:04:20] Adam Cox: Long time for

[01:04:22] nosebleed? Yeah. So two of them, got released. What about the other one,

[01:04:27] Kyle Risi: Fred? He's still in prison. All of his [01:04:30] appeals have subsequently been rejected over the years, and it's partly because he's the mastermind behind this entire thing, right?

[01:04:36] Mm-hmm. But it's also because he keeps getting busted hoarding porn.

[01:04:39] Adam Cox: We just put down the porn. We can talk about broth.

[01:04:44] Kyle Risi: But since he's been inside, both of his parents have died and as a result, he's inherited their entire estate. So he's a very, very rich man. But he can't enjoy any of it.

[01:04:54] Adam Cox: fair enough. But I dunno, maybe that's a kind of a good sort of comeuppance. Mm-hmm. Like, [01:05:00] actually he did this real stupid thing. You could have killed 27 people.

[01:05:03] Kyle Risi: Why don't these kids essentially try and claim some of his wealth?

[01:05:06] Adam Cox: A compensation?

[01:05:07] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Why not? Mm-hmm.

[01:05:09] And basically that's where we're at today.

[01:05:10] Adam Cox: And so what about Ed and the kids? Because they've been through a lot of trauma, particularly the kids. So. Are they gonna need like counseling?

[01:05:19] Kyle Risi: Yeah. When they got home, because the story was absolutely massive, they were welcomed with a massive parade. They even all got a free trip to Disneyland Ed two, but they did ask him to please wear [01:05:30] pants But even with the happy ending in terms of survival, many of the kids did walk away with a lifelong PTSD. Like even as adults, some still sleep with the lights on. Others suffer from recurring nightmares, which is really sad from that standpoint. Like you had something that happened to you in your childhood that's still affecting you today as an adult.

[01:05:50] There's something about that that's quite disturbing to me.

[01:05:52] Adam Cox: Yeah. I guess maybe they haven't either dealt with it or that was traumatic. That is a near death experience. Mm-hmm. Essentially. Yeah, I guess so. [01:06:00] Yeah. Whilst, whilst we've kind of joked about it, that part of it is horrible.

[01:06:04] Kyle Risi: I don't know if they got any counseling at the end of this. Clearly some of them still need it. Mm-hmm. Apparently after two months after the kidnapping, ed returned back to work as a school bus driver. The same bus, the same route.

[01:06:17] Adam Cox: Yeah. Did he, did he learn from his mistake?

[01:06:20] Kyle Risi: Never opened the door to a man with a pantyhose mask.

[01:06:24] Adam Cox: Yeah. On the next year.

[01:06:26] Kyle Risi: And Adam in 2012, at the age of 91, had passed [01:06:30] away apparently throughout his entire life. All of the kids stayed very close to him he ended up likely driving their kids to school every day. So like three generations of kids. In the weeks before he died, almost everyone who was on that bus on that day came to say goodbye to him.

[01:06:46] Adam Cox: Really? Wow. Isn't that amazing? Well, that kind of just goes to show that he really did help, I guess, get those kids through that ordeal. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. He made some mistakes and he wasn't maybe the one that got them out fully, [01:07:00] but he did comfort them. He did keep them going. Sure. And alive.

[01:07:03] Kyle Risi: He was the only adult in the chaos of just all those kids not knowing what to do.

[01:07:08] So in that sense, he was. a hero. but I also don't wanna diminish what Michael did as well.

[01:07:13] Adam Cox: No, that's fair enough. I think he probably kept the kids as calm as they, could have been in that situation.

[01:07:18] Kyle Risi: Yeah. He was that authoritative figure that they needed to tell them to shut up and

[01:07:21] Adam Cox: face forward and stop kicking their, the pole or whatever it was that one of them was doing.

[01:07:24] Kyle Risi: Over the decades, Cilla has grown from a population, as I said, the top of the show, from [01:07:30] 5,000 to around 20,000. And even though most of the residents were not living there at the time, every year on the 26th of February, the town celebrates Edward Ray Day. Oh, really? Cool. Which is Ed's birthday, which I think is just a lovely honor to him.

[01:07:45] What about Michael? Anyone celebrating his birthday? I, I wish I'd now like researched more into what Michael's doing. And Adam, that is the story of the Chowchilla school bus kidnapping of 1976.

[01:07:57] Adam Cox: it almost feels as ridiculous in a [01:08:00] way as the movie speed or something like that. Mm-hmm. it's a crazy story. I forgot the motives behind it and how pathetic they are and how stupid those men are. Yeah. But I'm just really glad the kids are okay.

[01:08:10] Kyle Risi: Yeah, for sure. We definitely wouldn't have taken the piss as much if they'd been any casualties. I feel bad that some of them are living with PTSD after all these years, but largely they're all okay. Apart from the nosebleed.

[01:08:22] Yeah.

[01:08:23] Which ended up sending someone to life in prison without the possibility of parole. I think now that is a flex on the [01:08:30] playground.

[01:08:30] Adam Cox: Yeah. What's your superpower? Cool. story. What odd moment in history.

[01:08:35] Kyle Risi: Yeah. It is kind of up there with the whole baby Jessica, in terms of like how it gripped the nation at the time. But yeah. Shall we run the outro for this week? Sure.

[01:08:44] And that brings us to the end of another fascinating foray into the compendium and assembly of fascinating things. We hope you enjoyed the ride as much as we did.

[01:08:51] Adam Cox: And if today's episode has sparks your curiosity, then please do us a favor and follow us on your favorite podcast app. It truly makes a world of [01:09:00] difference and helps more people discover the show.

[01:09:02] Kyle Risi: And for our dedicated freaks out there, don't forget, the next week's episode is already waiting for you on our Patreon, and it's completely free

[01:09:09] Adam Cox: to

[01:09:09] Kyle Risi: access.

[01:09:10] Adam Cox: And if you want even more, then join our certified Freaks tier to unlock the entire archive, delve into exclusive content and get a sneak peek at what's coming next. We'd love for you to be part of our growing community.

[01:09:21] Kyle Risi: We drop new episodes every Tuesday.

[01:09:24] Until then, remember, even in the darkest places, someone will always look for a way out. [01:09:30] We'll see you next time.

[01:09:31] Adam Cox: See you. [01:10:00]