Eight months later, a child believed to be Bobby was found in Mississippi with a travelling piano repairman named William Walters, and what followed looked, on the surface, like a miracle. The boy was taken home, welcomed back by the town, paraded through the streets, and folded into a family legend so large it would outlive almost everyone involved.
The problem, of course, was that the miracle never sat quite right. The identification was shaky, the newspaper accounts contradicted each other, and another woman, Julia Anderson, arrived insisting the child was actually her son Bruce. The court sided with the wealthier, more respectable Dunbars, Walters was prosecuted, and the boy lived out the rest of his life as Bobby Dunbar. For decades, that was the version that survived. Then Bobby’s granddaughter, Margaret Dunbar Cutright, began digging through the case and found a trail of contradictions, buried testimony and old grief that refused to stay buried. Eventually, a DNA test showed that the man raised as Bobby was not biologically related to the Dunbar line at all, blowing apart a century-old certainty and leaving one question hanging in the damp Louisiana air: if that boy was not Bobby, what actually happened to the real one?
What Happened in the Bobby Dunbar Case?
The Bobby Dunbar case began on 23 August 1912, when Bobby disappeared during a family outing to Swayze Lake near Opelousas, Louisiana. The area was swampy, thick with trees and known for alligators, so the first assumption was grim and immediate: Bobby had either drowned or been taken by the water. Searchers combed the area, dynamite was thrown into the lake in the hope of surfacing a body, and even alligators were cut open looking for evidence. Nothing turned up. Then, months later, a boy matching Bobby’s description was found in Mississippi with William Walters, who insisted the child was not Bobby at all but Bruce Anderson, the son of Julia Anderson, who had asked him to look after the boy.
That should have settled into a straightforward identification. Instead, it became a mess of pressure, class and wishful thinking. The Dunbars claimed the child. Newspaper reports disagreed on whether mother and son recognised each other. Julia Anderson then arrived and said the same child was her son Bruce, but she was poorer, unmarried, and treated by the press with a level of contempt that now looks both obvious and revolting. In the end, the court awarded custody to the Dunbars, Walters was convicted of kidnapping, and the child went home as Bobby Dunbar. He grew up, had children of his own, and lived that identity for the rest of his life.
The case only cracked open properly generations later, when Margaret Dunbar Cutright began re-examining the story from the family scrapbook and then widened her view to include Julia Anderson’s descendants, Walters’ family, old legal papers and forgotten letters. The final blow came through DNA testing, which showed that the man raised as Bobby was not related to Alonzo Dunbar’s line. That does not prove with total certainty that he was Bruce Anderson, but it does make one thing brutally clear: the child returned to the Dunbars was not the missing Bobby Dunbar.
Why This Story Matters
This story matters because it is not just a missing child case. It is a story about what happens when grief hardens into certainty, and when the people best placed to challenge that certainty are too poor, too powerless, or too socially inconvenient to be believed. The transcript is especially sharp on that point. Julia Anderson was judged not simply on evidence, but on class, reputation and the fact that respectable society found her easier to dismiss than the Dunbars. Once that happened, an entire false history had room to settle in.
It also lingers because the DNA test solves only part of the mystery. It tells us the returned boy was not Bobby, but it cannot tell us with absolute certainty what happened at Swayze Lake, whether the real Bobby drowned, was taken by an alligator, or vanished by some other means entirely. So the case lands in that especially unsettling place: one family legend collapses, another family is vindicated, and the original child at the centre of it all remains missing. Neat endings are lovely, but history is often far too rude for that.
What You’ll Hear in This Episode
You’ll hear how Bobby Dunbar vanished into a Louisiana swamp, how a disputed reunion turned into a court-sanctioned family myth, and how a century-late DNA test forced three families to reckon with the possibility that the wrong child came home.
Topics Include
- Bobby Dunbar’s disappearance at Swayze Lake
- William Walters and the child found in Mississippi
- Julia Anderson’s claim that the boy was Bruce
- The court ruling that handed the child to the Dunbars
- Margaret Dunbar Cutright’s later investigation
- The DNA result that showed Bobby and Alonzo were not related
Resources and Further Reading
- A Case for Solomon – by Tal McThenia & Margaret Dunbar Cutright
- The Ghost of Bobby Dunbar – This American Life
- The Strange Case of Bobby Dunbar – Country Roads Magazine
- Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar - Wikipedia
[00:00:01] Kyle Risi: Adam? Imagine going on a family camping trip only for your 4-year-old son to vanish into a swamp crawling with alligators.
[00:00:10] Geez,
[00:00:10] And Soon the entire country is looking for him.
[00:00:13] All hope seems to disappear. When by some miracle. Someone finds him not only alive, but well,
[00:00:22] The entire town is there to welcome him home. A marching band was assembled to parade through the streets. They even got Bobby his very own [00:00:30] pony. The story was so huge at the time,. Adam, a family legend is born that ends up getting passed down through the generations.
[00:00:39] That was until 100 years later, long after everyone involved has died, curious descendants begin digging into the story that they grew up hearing. Only to Uncover a deeply unsettling twist.
[00:00:53] The child who came home all those years ago, the one in all the photographs, the one their descendants [00:01:00] built their entire identity around.
[00:01:02] Might not have been who they thought at all.
[00:01:06] Adam Cox: Wow.
[00:01:06]
[00:01:33] Kyle Risi: Welcome to the Compendium and Assembly of Fascinating Things, a weekly variety podcasts that gives you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering.
[00:01:43] Adam Cox: We explore stories from the darker corners of true crime, the hidden gems of history, and the jaw dropping deeds of extraordinary people.
[00:01:50] Kyle Risi: I'm Kyle Reese, your Ring Master this week's episode.
[00:01:54] Adam Cox: And I'm Adam Cox, the Urh cake stock taker for this week. [00:02:00] Nice. I will check even wind whilst you're peeing, just to make sure. How's that? Don't pee directly on the cake.
[00:02:07] Kyle Risi: Don't want eroding too fast. Like, sir,
[00:02:09] Adam Cox: what are you doing? I'm just checking how many ural cakes.
[00:02:12] Kyle Risi: But you're looking at my penis too long. Guys, if you're new to the show and you want to support us, and the absolute best way to support us and enjoy exclusive perks is to join us on Patreon because signing up is free and you get access to next week's episode a whole seven days early.
[00:02:28] Adam Cox: And did you know [00:02:30] Kyle, that for as little as $5 a month, ooh, you'll become a fellow freak of the show unlocking our entire back catalog.
[00:02:36] There's 20 episodes in there. It's a bit of all the latest things. There's all sorts,
[00:02:41] Kyle Risi: all the latest things. God, we need to bring that back. It was, it was a hit when we did like those nine episodes. And as a special thank you, our Certified Freak team members now receive an exclusive compendium key chain.
[00:02:53] You just need to DM us with your dress and we'll send one straight to your door, or when you sign up, we'll ask you very conveniently [00:03:00] for your address. So after three months. Boom, write in your inbox. And it's because that way we can always be dangling
[00:03:07] Adam Cox: near your crutch. And lastly, guys, please follow us on your favorite podcast app and leave us a review.
[00:03:14] Your support really helps others find us and keeps these amazing stories coming.
[00:03:19] Kyle Risi: Adam, that's enough of the housekeeping. Today's episode is actually suggested by George from Alexandria in Louisiana, which is where. Our story [00:03:30] has taken us,
[00:03:30] Adam Cox: ah, they wanted a story about their hometowns. What's, what's the clue then?
[00:03:34] Kyle Risi: Adam?
[00:03:35] Today on the compendium, we are diving into an assembly of lies. People cling to when the alternative is unbearable.
[00:03:44] Adam Cox: The unbearable being death.
[00:03:47] Kyle Risi: Adam, imagine going on a family camping trip.
[00:03:50] Adam Cox: No, that'd be
[00:03:51] Kyle Risi: terrible. You've gotta play with it. Okay.
[00:03:54] Imagine going on a family camping trip only for your 4-year-old son to vanish into a swamp
[00:03:59] that is
[00:03:59] [00:04:00] crawling with alligators.
[00:04:01] Geez,
[00:04:02] panic erupts. And
[00:04:03] soon the entire country is looking for him.
[00:04:06] When
[00:04:06] eight months go by
[00:04:08] without a sign of your son.
[00:04:10] All hope seems to disappear when by some miracle. Someone finds him not only alive, but well, you bring him home to a nationwide celebration and a family legend is born that ends up getting passed down through the generations.
[00:04:27] But 100 years later, [00:04:30] long after everyone involved has died, curious descendants begin digging into the story that they grew up hearing. And to their horror, they uncover a deeply unsettling twist. The child who came home all those years ago, the one in all the photographs, the one their descendants built their entire identity around.
[00:04:51] Might not have been who they thought at all.
[00:04:55] Adam Cox: It was a
[00:04:55] different child.
[00:04:56] Kyle Risi: Adam. Today on the compendium, I'm gonna tell you [00:05:00] the incredible story of the disappearance of Bobby Dunbar, the four-year-old boy who went missing in the summer of 1912, only for his granddaughter. Generations later to uncover a secret that ended up rattling three families to their core, a secret that changed the reality of everything they thought to be true.
[00:05:20] Adam Cox: Wow. That sounds like quite a setup for today.
[00:05:23] Kyle Risi: So it's quite a famous story, but I'm assuming you've never heard of this story before?
[00:05:26] Adam Cox: No, I don't think I have actually. But I think I can already call it [00:05:30] that the boy that they found is not the actual boy. Do you reckon? I reckon. And then there's a coverup, or maybe the mom just wanted the boy because it's like, well, it looks close enough.
[00:05:40] Kyle Risi: Well, we have some DNA test results that unfortunately the family at the time didn't have access to. But we do after all these years later. And we'll be revealing them in a Jeremy Kyle style moment.
[00:05:52] Adam Cox: Oh, like he's not your father or he's not your son.
[00:05:55] Kyle Risi: Yes. Yes, I am. Right. Should we jump into it? Yes, Adam.[00:06:00]
[00:06:00] It's the 23rd of August, 1912. The Dunbars and their friends were enjoying a day trip to Swayze Lake in Louisiana. The Dunbars included parents, Percy and Lesi, and their two children, 4-year-old Bobby, and 2-year-old Alonzo. Alonzo, I know after Bobby was born, someone clearly said, you need to set up your naming game.
[00:06:18] Adam Cox: Yeah. Bobby, you weren't Alonzo.
[00:06:21] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly. The Dunbars were from Opelousas in Louisiana. I hope I pronounce that correctly. I'm really sorry if I haven't, George. I
[00:06:28] Adam Cox: bet you haven't, but it's [00:06:30] fun.
[00:06:30] Kyle Risi: And in 1912, Opelousas was a small market town focused on producing cotton rearing livestock, and the newer town export of sweet potatoes.
[00:06:39] Or as our American listen, like to call them
[00:06:41] Adam Cox: yams. Did they discover sweet potato fries?
[00:06:45] Kyle Risi: No, I don't think so.
[00:06:46] Adam Cox: Oh, who made them? Who thought, do you know what chips are fine, but why don't we make sweet potato fries?
[00:06:52] Kyle Risi: Because they called them
[00:06:52] Adam Cox: yams. Yeah, they'd call 'em yam fries.
[00:06:56] Kyle Risi: Yeah. What is that about? Oh, yams and sweet potatoes are the same thing.
[00:06:59] I think [00:07:00] they are. I think so. I. I only say that from the episode of Friends with the one that star Brad Pit, where he is like, can I have the yams please? And it's like, I don't think you need guys. Yas.
[00:07:08] Adam Cox: It's like, but you've worked so hard for that body.
[00:07:11] Kyle Risi: Now the Dunbars, they are considered a prominent family in Opelousas.
[00:07:14] At the time, Percy co-owned a local insurance agency, which tended to come with recognition and respect for that kind of profession. And by all accounts, the Dunbars were a typical family. Little Bobby Dunbar, just four years old at the time, was described by newspapers as Rosy cheeked [00:07:30] stout. But not fat.
[00:07:31] And on the day in question, he was wearing a straw, hat steal but not fat. I know. What a description now, while the dumbbells and their friends were spending the day out at Swayze Lake, Percy was called back to town to attend to business, leaving Leslie behind to enjoy the trip with their friends and Bobby and Alonzo a little while before lunch.
[00:07:48] Bobby accompanied family friend Paul Mitzi, to watch him shoot fish in the lake. They'd clearly forgotten their fishing rod. So this was essentially the compromise,
[00:07:56] Adam Cox: how that's like shooting fish in a barrel. That's like a [00:08:00] terminology, because it's not possible. Right.
[00:08:01] Kyle Risi: Shooting fish in the barrel is easy. Oh
[00:08:03] Adam Cox: yeah,
[00:08:03] Kyle Risi: that's right.
[00:08:04] But shooting fish in a lake, that's way harder. And this is a money lake as well.
[00:08:07] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:07] Kyle Risi: So even way harder. Uping, the difficulties there. What did they catch? I dunno what they call. Oh, this is about a child that's gone missing. Okay. And the thing to know about Swayze Lake is that it's less of a lake and more of a swamp.
[00:08:20] It's muddy water surrounded by thick, dense trees. When you actually look at pictures of this. On Google Maps, you would not even know that it was a lake because it just looks like a big forest. There's like mangroves and things like that [00:08:30] growing in it. And the lake is also known for having many, many alligators lurking in this waters.
[00:08:36] So around lunchtime, Lesi began calling everyone to get ready to eat. And according to the newspaper articles at the time, as Paul, and were making their way back to the others hall, told Bobby to get out of his way. In response, he laughs at him and reportedly said, you're no bigger than me. Mitzi. Which then Bobby disappeared like magic, which I interpreted just as he scampered away, basically.
[00:08:58] Mm-hmm. So he's a sassy [00:09:00] little kid. He doesn't seem to be like this whimpering, timid type. He's full on sassing, a full grown man like three times his size.
[00:09:05] Adam Cox: Sure. So this is quite an important. Character trait?
[00:09:09] Kyle Risi: I would say so,
[00:09:10] Adam Cox: yeah.
[00:09:10] Kyle Risi: So it goes without saying that from this little interaction, Bobby is confident and he has essentially an inflated sense of how tough he thinks he is.
[00:09:18] His personality and his stature earns him. In fact, the nickname heavy amongst the adults that know him, which is so mean.
[00:09:25] Adam Cox: So he stout, but he is not fat, but he is heavy.
[00:09:28] Kyle Risi: Yeah, he's called heavy. [00:09:30] Later when Bobby doesn't turn up, les's concern escalates into frantic worry. Although they weren't saying now, right?
[00:09:36] In their minds, there was a fear that an alligator might have gotten him.
[00:09:39] Adam Cox: I'm surprised they're like chilling out at this lake or whatever, and there's alligators nearby. Mm. You'd think they'd be quite,
[00:09:45] Kyle Risi: they'd
[00:09:45] Adam Cox: be on guard,
[00:09:46] Kyle Risi: right? Maybe the alligators don't typically come up out of the water. I don't know.
[00:09:51] Adam Cox: Would you trust that? I don't know. It feels like a little bit lax parenting, but then we live in a world of, was it modeling, cuddling.
[00:09:57] Kyle Risi: Moly cuddling. Yeah. Back then it's like F for [00:10:00] yourself, son.
[00:10:00] Adam Cox: Ah, for alligator gets here, gets you.
[00:10:02] Kyle Risi: We've got another son, Alonzo, with a much better name. So by this point, Percy arrive back from town and the group all banded together to start a thorough search of the area.
[00:10:10] But despite their efforts, Bobby is nowhere to be found. And so as word spreads, a search attracts more than a hundred people who continue to search at late into the night. But still, Bobby is nowhere to be found. I don't know if maybe I've watched too many true crime documentaries, but my first thought was that Paul Mitzi killed him [00:10:30] and then it was the alligators.
[00:10:31] Do you know what I mean? Maybe I'm just a bit too skeptical about these things. I dunno. I,
[00:10:34] Adam Cox: I thought maybe, yeah. My first thought was maybe he fell in the lake.
[00:10:37] Kyle Risi: Now, eventually the local authorities were brought in, and it wasn't long before the assumptions set that Bobby had either drowned or even worse, was taken by an alligator.
[00:10:47] They decided to throw several rounds of dynamite into the swamp to see if maybe this would result in a body to float up to the surface. When that didn't work, they tried catching several alligators to see if they could find any evidence of Bobby inside their stomachs. [00:11:00] Still, there was no trace of him found.
[00:11:02] Based on a couple tips from people seeing a boy matching Bobby's description outside of the area, the search was widened across the region and eventually into neighboring states, but then months go by and still there's no sign of Bobby. That wasn't until a child match in Bobby's description was spotted in the neighboring state of Mississippi.
[00:11:22] He was seen traveling with a piano repairman named William Kentwell Walters, who based on what the cops could tell, was not [00:11:30] his relative. Walters, by the way of technicality, was a tinkerer. So while he mainly went around repairing and tuning pianos and organs, you also picked up odd jobs here and there.
[00:11:40] But he was traveling around to find this work. When the cops approached him, Walter said the boy was Charles Bruce Anderson. He said that Bruce was the son of a woman called Julia Anderson. And Julia had asked him to look after Bruce while she went off to look for work. But Adam, that was 14 months ago and she had still not come back.
[00:11:59] So to [00:12:00] the cops, and I guess to you. Seem a bit dodgy, right?
[00:12:03] Adam Cox: Yeah.
[00:12:04] Kyle Risi: So Walters was arrested and the boy was taken into custody not long after this word gets back to the Dunbars. One of Percy's brothers was not that far away, and so he agrees to go and have a look at the boy. At first, he said the boy was not Bobby, but on a subsequent visit.
[00:12:20] He confirms that it was indeed Bobby. Huh? Initially I thought maybe he lived far away. Maybe he's not that close to the kid. Kids do grow up very fast, [00:12:30] especially when you're four years old.
[00:12:31] Adam Cox: True. But it's only been a few months though. Right.
[00:12:33] Kyle Risi: But I don't know where this brother lives, whether or not he permanently lived in the area.
[00:12:37] So maybe he's been ages since he's seen. Either way, the Dunbars decide to travel up to Mississippi to see the boy, and a lot of the accounts of what happens next comes from old newspaper clippings that the family collected over the years. And so many of those articles actually contradict themselves in quite, quite an unusual way.
[00:12:54] One of the headlines was Mother Faints at sites of Kidnapped child. In it, it [00:13:00] says The boy recognized his mother instantly. Mother, he cried as he reached out and stretched out his arms to her. The mother convulsively embraced the boy and then she fainted. That's a bit dramatic. Yeah. Where's By smelling salts.
[00:13:12] Another article, however, with the headline, Mrs. Dunbar, not positive, lad is her missing boy.
[00:13:20] Adam Cox: This is what I'm thinking. Unless he's some kind of weird feral child, like that's not the boy. Then he has a shave and it's, oh no, that is him.
[00:13:26] Kyle Risi: Yeah. So the article goes on to say Mrs. Dunbar [00:13:30] looked in the dim light of a S smokey oil lamp and then fell back in a gasp.
[00:13:34] I don't know. I'm not quite sure. Faulted Mrs. Dunbar. So what you have here is two completely different reactions being reported. It makes me question whether or not these journalists were even there, or whether or not they'd received the account third hand or even fourth hand. Mm-hmm. Because this is Leslie's son.
[00:13:48] She even knows him instantly or she does not.
[00:13:50] Adam Cox: Exactly. She should have reared him for about four years. Exactly.
[00:13:54] Kyle Risi: If these journalists were there firsthand, I don't see how either of their reactions could have been left up to interpretation, [00:14:00] especially in two very vastly different ways. Because in one of the articles, both Percy and Nessie say that the boy's eyes were too small and that he didn't seem to recognize them.
[00:14:08] Or his little brother Alonzo saying quote, Bobby turned upon Alonzo with a scowl of anger. It's brilliant writing.
[00:14:16] Adam Cox: Um, yeah. So why do we think the news report. It's bizarre,
[00:14:21] Kyle Risi: isn't it? But yet in the first article, it's reported that they instantly saw his brother. He said, that's my Bubba Alonzo. And then reached out to kiss him.
[00:14:29] So it is very [00:14:30] bizarre that they get the reporting so vastly different.
[00:14:32] Adam Cox: So my suspicion is at this point in time that the one whereby the boy doesn't recognize his mother, or I dunno, is a bit weary and she doesn't recognize him. Could that be the true one? And then the one whereby there's a report that.
[00:14:45] They instantly recognize each other. That's to try and make it seem like, oh yeah, that's the sun missing boy found job done.
[00:14:51] Kyle Risi: Yeah. I don't know. I can't explain it. It maybe it's a different way of doing reporting and journalism out back in the day. I don't know. But the following day, the Dunbars ask if they [00:15:00] can come back unless he asks if she can give the boy a bath where she will be able to identify moles and scars in your skin.
[00:15:05] Oh, okay. I wondered where that was going after this. She declares, the boy was, in fact, Bobby. So like she doesn't recognize his face, but she does recognize his penis. Let's be, let's be PG here. I recognize his scar, so it's very strange. I get that kids can obviously change very fast, especially when you're four years old.
[00:15:23] But I don't know if a child would change beyond recognition in that time. It's only been eight months.
[00:15:27] Adam Cox: I don't think so. I mean, I appreciate they probably didn't have lots of [00:15:30] photos. But they're not gonna forget what their son looked like in exactly that many months.
[00:15:34] Kyle Risi: Either way, after Lesi identifies the moles and scars, authorities are convinced enough that the kid was, of course, Bobby, and so he's allowed to go back to Louisiana with the Dunbars.
[00:15:44] When they get back, the entire town is there to welcome him home. The story was so huge at the time, Adam, so it was a big course for celebration Crowds completely surround the Dunbar house. A marching band was assembled to parade through the streets. They even got a local fire truck to come out, and [00:16:00] at some point Bobby was even gifted his very own pony.
[00:16:04] So this is a fucking good day for Bobby.
[00:16:05] Adam Cox: Yeah.
[00:16:06] Kyle Risi: However, the celebrations don't last very long. Because it's not long before a woman rocks up in town claiming to be Julia Anderson, the boy's mother. She's there because she's determined to prove he was actually her son, and not Bobby Dunbar, but also Adam.
[00:16:22] She's technically there because after establishing that, the boy is Bobby. This meant that the man found with him was now under arrest and charged [00:16:30] for kidnapping. So not only was she there to claim a sum back, but she was also looking to get this guy off on the charges of kidnapping. Right.
[00:16:37] Adam Cox: Oh, right. Yeah.
[00:16:37] Of course.
[00:16:38] Kyle Risi: But can you imagine looking after your friend's child only for the police taken from you? That's bad enough. But then you have the kid given to a whole new family based on them thinking that a mole in his cute little ass looks familiar. And then you have to explain that to his mother.
[00:16:51] Adam Cox: Yeah, I was like, oopsie.
[00:16:52] Are you sure it was your son? Because they were pretty adamant it was there. Yeah.
[00:16:56] Kyle Risi: So according to Julia, her. Up to this point has been fairly [00:17:00] tragic. Before Bob went missing, she had two other children from three different men. She ends up getting married at one point, but the day after their wedding, he shoots her in the foot, so of course that's over.
[00:17:09] Mm-hmm. From there, she becomes a bit of a drifter. She travels around picking up various odd jobs here and there just to support her kids, and along the way, one of her kids dies, which she gets the blame for, and so the other one is taken into care. Although some reports say that a child also died, but it's not clear whether or not it happened.
[00:17:26] In her custody or maybe when it was in care. But at some point, [00:17:30] Judi finds work as a field hand working for the Walters family, which is when she falls pregnant with the boy. She now calls Bruce. The rumors are that the father was William Walter's brother, but sources aren't really that definitive on that.
[00:17:43] But it is clear that William knew the boy who at this point was six years old, right? So remember Bobby went missing when he was four. This kid goes missing when he is six. Now I haven't met that many young kids, but I do know there is quite a stark difference between kids that are six years old and four years old.
[00:17:57] Adam Cox: Yeah. Well, it's only been a few months, but one of them [00:18:00] six, one of them's four. Yeah. Surely like they'd be, I dunno, better at communication where they kind of, I dunno, grip things, I dunno, all sort of kind of stuff that have, dunno what, what are the differences between a 4-year-old
[00:18:10] Kyle Risi: and a 6-year-old? That's one's taller.
[00:18:12] Yeah, exactly. One's taller. One looks like a 6-year-old. The other one looks like a 4-year-old.
[00:18:16] Adam Cox: Yeah.
[00:18:17] Kyle Risi: I don't know. There's a clear difference to me. So according to Julia, as Bruce got older, he became really attached to William wanting to go with him everywhere. At some point, Julia had to go off to look for work and William agreed to look after the boy while she was away.
[00:18:29] At [00:18:30] the time, William was traveling around tuning pianos, and he found that whenever he took a boy with him. People were a lot nicer to him. And so this was really great for business. So women just kind of wanted to get their hands on him, give him a bath, feed him up, kind of shower him with cuddles. And so he gets a lot of work as a result of taking this boy with him.
[00:18:47] Adam Cox: What is it with these women trying to give this boy a bath? I wanna see him naked. This boy is filthy. Get him a bath.
[00:18:54] Kyle Risi: So after the boy returns to Louisiana with the Dunbars, and while the conclusion of the story was doing the rounds and the [00:19:00] papers. Julia tells reporters that William left Barnesville in North Carolina with her son, Bruce in February of 1912, and told her that he was only taking the child for a few days to visit his sister.
[00:19:12] So whoever William took, he definitely did take a child without permission, basically. She's saying that, listen, he's been away for 14 months with this kid. I only gave him permission for a few days.
[00:19:25] Adam Cox: That's, that is kind of wild.
[00:19:29] Kyle Risi: But given [00:19:30] the backstory that the possibility that Bruce was actually his nephew and how desperate she was to find work, I'm not sure I'll buy that story, that she didn't entrust the boy with him for all that time.
[00:19:38] I think she probably did leave him with him, but also I see why she would say this, because remember. One of her children were taken into care. Right. So it wouldn't look good for her if she admitted to abandoning a child, especially for 14 months. She probably said I'll be back in a few days and then came back 14 months later.
[00:19:53] Adam Cox: Yeah. Okay. Could this explain why the boy perhaps would just go with this family? [00:20:00] Because I dunno if he's young and hadn't seen his mom in a like a year or so.
[00:20:04] Kyle Risi: But he's sick though.
[00:20:05] Adam Cox: Yeah. Would he, would he have forgotten them? I don't think so. I don't think
[00:20:09] Kyle Risi: so. No. But also, here's another good point. If she only entrusted him with William for a few days, why did she never report him missing?
[00:20:15] Adam Cox: That's true. Exactly. She was fine clearly with it.
[00:20:18] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm. William insists that she knew the boy was with him the whole time. Julie added, I would know my son if I were to see him, and I'm sure he would know me. I have no picture of the child, but I do have [00:20:30] a lock of his hair. So basically not having a picture of your child in 1912, especially for a woman in dire straits, I guess isn't that unusual.
[00:20:37] Mm-hmm. But carrying a lock of his hair, I guess is a 1912 equivalent of that. Right. So after she speaks to the reporter, the reporter offers to pay for Julia to travel to Louisiana to try and identify the boy in the article that they write, they frame this as this dramatic test saying Julia arrived exhausted from an overnight train and was taken to a home in town.
[00:20:56] There she was presented with five boys around Bruce's age, [00:21:00] including one that the Dunbars claimed was Bobby. Each one was brought in at different times and Julie was asked to choose which one she thought was hers. Apparently, when Bobby was brought in, he doesn't recognize her at all. And I guess that kind of is testament to what you said, like she hadn't seen her for 14 months, so maybe a child of six years old might not necessarily recognize her mother.
[00:21:19] Adam Cox: Not straight away. Yeah.
[00:21:21] Kyle Risi: No, but the point is that she's not that sure whether or not he is her son Bruce, either. Which is interesting, right? You would expect the mother to at least know.
[00:21:29] Adam Cox: [00:21:30] Yeah. Straight away.
[00:21:31] Kyle Risi: She has an inkling that this is Bruce. This particular child is Bruce out of all the other five. So I guess that kind of works in a favor.
[00:21:38] She tries to offer him an orange, so I guess that maybe that's something that they had bonded over in the past to see if that will spark any an orange. Remember how you used to eat oranges with me? Lemme check your moles, Adam. That's exactly what happens, really. So Judy asked a lawyer if this was the boy, but of course he refuses to say, because that will defeat the purpose of what they're trying to do here.
[00:21:58] In the end, Judy admits that she wasn't [00:22:00] sure if this was her son, but she is, like I said, most drawn to this particular boy. So now you have two mothers who are supposedly reunited with their sons, and neither of them could immediately
[00:22:09] Adam Cox: recognize him. What happens if this is neither of their sons?
[00:22:13] Kyle Risi: Oh, I don't know
[00:22:14] Adam Cox: because I don't feel like anyone knows that family at this point.
[00:22:17] I
[00:22:17] Kyle Risi: mean, that is 100% possible. Wait till we get to the very end. Keep hold of that thought.
[00:22:21] Adam Cox: Okay.
[00:22:21] Kyle Risi: So basically what this means is the fact that these two mothers both are hesitant in recognizing him, suggests that parenting in the 19 hundreds [00:22:30] really took a nose down and at some point it peaked up again.
[00:22:33] But I'm also really conflated. I buy how Julia might not recognize him more than Lessie, like 40 months is a long time, but at the same time, it's not that much longer than eight months. But the difference here is that without prompt Julia, while I'm sure it's still more drawn to this particular kid that's in question.
[00:22:50] Adam Cox: Yeah. But one mother is thinking he's four, the other one thinks he's six. And then surely ask the child. 'cause usually at that age, they know their age.
[00:22:57] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly. After this, the newspaper [00:23:00] reports that Julia failed to identify the boy. And from there more and more publications start running with a story and adamant they are vicious.
[00:23:06] Even more so compared to how some reported lessie not recognizing her son. And a large comes down to views against unmarried mothers at the time, which at the time is very, very much frowned upon one. The articles was titled Julia has Forgotten by Jerome, GBT, and it says. Her long journey had been in vain.
[00:23:25] She had not seen her son since February of 1912, and she had forgotten all [00:23:30] about him. Animals don't forget, but this big course country woman, several times a mother. She forgot. She cared little for her young children were only regrettable incidents in her life. She hopes her son isn't dead, just as she hopes the cotton crop will be good.
[00:23:47] This year of true motherly love, she has none.
[00:23:50] Adam Cox: Wow, that's a scathing review.
[00:23:52] Kyle Risi: So incredibly judgemental as well, especially juxta opposed with the negative reporting that Leslie got. This is really cruel and totally uncalled for in my opinion, [00:24:00] and it's because she was an unmarried mother and was a farmhand,
[00:24:03] Adam Cox: and to say that she's several times a mother,
[00:24:05] Kyle Risi: several times a mother,
[00:24:06] Adam Cox: as if insinuating, she's been a mom several times and she still doesn't know who one of her sons are,
[00:24:11] Kyle Risi: essentially.
[00:24:12] It's really cruel in my opinion. The next day, Julia begs a lawyers for another chance to visit the boy and asks if she can address him
[00:24:22] again, hoping to see if she can recognize some of the markings on his body. But what is it about this boy that makes him more recognizable with his clothes off than not?[00:24:30]
[00:24:32] Adam Cox: You would think the face was enough.
[00:24:34] Kyle Risi: Yeah, so it's so strange that two mothers are saying, I'm not sure. Let me seem naked. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So they agree, and afterwards she's more certain that the boy initially that she picked out is definitely Bruce, but sadly Adam, this isn't enough.
[00:24:50] According to the lawyers, she had already failed to identify him the first time round, and so according to them, she had missed her chance. Wow.
[00:24:55] Adam Cox: One
[00:24:56] Kyle Risi: shot. Don't forget, Lessie failed the first time too. But she got a [00:25:00] second chance. Exactly. Eventually, the judge rules that the child was Bobby Dunbar, and full custody is given to Percy and Lessie.
[00:25:07] Julia has no money to fight this, and so she's forced to return to Mississippi, leaving the boy with the Dunbars. And it's so strange that they didn't think to ask the boy who he was. I know it's a different time when kids are supposed to be seen and not heard, but if this kid was Bruce, remember he was six, he could have probably told them who he was, and even if it was Bobby, the last thing he did remember was throw some sass.
[00:25:29] So [00:25:30] as a kid, he was full of personality. He probably would've spoken up. Why did he not?
[00:25:34] Adam Cox: Yeah, I think you're right. Like I guess he would've forgotten, but I feel like they would've said, tell me some memories. I
[00:25:41] Kyle Risi: dunno. Some people say that it could have been possibly trauma that could explain why he didn't.
[00:25:45] But if this kid was Bobby, then being kidnapped would've been really traumatic for him. Would you not have spoken up outta fear of being given back to William Walters? If it was really traumatic, I think you would. Be like, please don't send me back to that man. He kid at me.
[00:25:58] Adam Cox: Or he's so [00:26:00] scared that he's not gonna speak up.
[00:26:01] I don't know.
[00:26:02] Kyle Risi: Unless they both didn't speak up. Because remember the village gave them a pony.
[00:26:07] Adam Cox: I'd do that for a pony. I
[00:26:07] Kyle Risi: would do that for a pony. I totally would. So following this, as kids often do, they adjust. Bobby quickly settles into his home life with the gumbar. He reportedly shows signs of remembering details around the house, but meanwhile, Julia failing to prove the boy was Bruce means that William is now in serious trouble for kidnapping Bobby Dunbar.
[00:26:26] Oh yeah, that's right. He eventually undergoes a trial where he's [00:26:30] found guilty. He's sentenced to life in prison. He does manage to appeal, and at the appeal they find major procedural issues during the first trial, and so they order a second trial, but by this point, the town has spent so much money on the first trial that they declined to do a retrial, and so they just set him free.
[00:26:47] Really? Yeah. A potential kidnapper.
[00:26:49] Adam Cox: No way.
[00:26:50] Kyle Risi: Yeah, they do. He was, he wasn't exonerated. He is still technically guilty. They just can't afford to re prosecute, basically. That is
[00:26:57] Adam Cox: ridiculous. It's more wild. Let's just say [00:27:00] you, you promise you won't kidnap anyone else if we make, I promise.
[00:27:05] Kyle Risi: So over the years, life continues for Bobby.
[00:27:07] He doesn't have the most stable upbringing. When he's 12. Percy is charged with stabbing a man in Florida. Same year, Percy and Lessie, they separated after he is charged with adultery and cohabitation, basically living with another woman, which allows Lessie basically to file for divorce because back then it's quite difficult to do that unless you have really good grounds.
[00:27:27] And this was the grounds you could get charged for
[00:27:29] Adam Cox: that back
[00:27:29] Kyle Risi: then? [00:27:30] Yeah, pretty much. Wow. And so Bobby and Alonzo, they have it tough when Bobby is around 24 years old. The Lindbergh ab kidnapping happens. Do you remember that? Mm-hmm. At the time, it is a huge story across the USA and so with fresh interest in the case, as the papers always do, they dig up similar cases and they go and speak to people connected basically just for comment, which is such a dumb thing to do because they are usually completely unrelated, right?
[00:27:56] Mm-hmm. They just want their comment. I dunno if I ever told you this, but I used to know a [00:28:00] guy who won a competition to interview Michael Jackson when he was 13 years old. After the interview, Michael exchanged numbers with him. And so Michael started calling him up at his home in 1979, and in one of those conversations, Michael asked him if he masturbated and what he thought about when he did.
[00:28:15] Oh, did I ever tell you about this? No. So it was never a secret amongst Terry's friends, but when the allegations about Michael first started surfacing. The story ends up leaking to the press. And so in subsequent years, whenever fresh allegation surfaced about Michael Jackson, they would always come knocking [00:28:30] on his door for comments.
[00:28:31] Ah, so, so it's sort of the same thing happening with Bobby after the limbo baby kidnapping happened basically. And so for the first time, he actually opens up about the kidnapping. He famously says, A lot of people still think that I was eaten by an alligator. I can assure you I was not,
[00:28:47] Adam Cox: I mean, yeah, you're there.
[00:28:49] You definitely weren't eaten by an alligator.
[00:28:51] Kyle Risi: He talks about remembering riding with William Walters in the wagon shortly before he was arrested. He also says there was another boy with him at the time who fell off the [00:29:00] wagon and died, but William had buried him at the side of the road. Oh. So he's basically remembering Bruce's death, which conveniently explains why two boys have vanished and only one had been found in the end.
[00:29:12] Adam Cox: So why did William have both boys?
[00:29:15] Kyle Risi: That's the really interesting thing, right? That memory aligns with a theory that the prosecution had posed during Walter's trial. So there's no factual evidence that this actually happened at the time. It was just a theory. But for the family who attended the trial, likely [00:29:30] recounted the story repeatedly of the years, and so he likely internalized that to the point that it became his own memory.
[00:29:35] Adam Cox: Ah, I see. So it didn't happen.
[00:29:37] Kyle Risi: Yeah, no. We don't know if it happened or not. I'm thinking it didn't because I know how the story goes. Oh, so I'm assuming he's just like internalized that memory.
[00:29:46] Adam Cox: Yeah. He created a me a false memory. Exactly.
[00:29:48] Kyle Risi: Yeah. But by now, Bobby is a man. He meets a woman, they get married and together they have four children, including a son that they name Bobby Dunbar Jr.
[00:29:58] And by all accounts, he's a [00:30:00] great dad, despite obviously his father Percy's failings as a father. His kids also talk about how unstable their dad's upbringing was. But instead of obviously letting history repeat itself, he turns into, quite frankly, a phenomenal father. But then Adam, in 1966, at the age of 58, Bobby dies.
[00:30:18] And along with that, the truth behind who he actually was, who did he think he was? Let's go into it. Okay. Yeah, there's some clues in there. We're actually gonna skip a whole generation because [00:30:30] Bobby Dunbar Jr. He eventually grows up and he has kids of his own. One of them is his daughter, Margaret Dunbar Cutright, and she basically grows up hearing the story of her grandfather's kidnapping.
[00:30:41] Les had kept all the newspaper clippings in a scrapbook, so ever since she could remember, she was deeply fascinated with the story. Then in 1999, after Margaret's brother dies in an accident, her father Bobby Jr. Gives her the scrapbook, which is filled with all the photographs, letters, and the newspaper clippings, everything that has been collected about the [00:31:00] story.
[00:31:00] Also, at the time, her husband worked away a lot, and now of course her kids were grown. So to her, this was an opportunity to reground herself around family and really pause herself into the book. Initially, her aim was just to sort out the scrapbook and put it into chronological order because they were all just a bit of a jumbled mess.
[00:31:16] As she's going through it, she starts to notice the inconsistencies in the case. So she starts visiting libraries and courthouses around the south to find any additional details that will maybe provide a more definitive account, like from journalists who are actually there, [00:31:30] rather than getting this information third hand or fourth hand.
[00:31:33] The more she researched though, the more she finds out about Julia. The law in the family was that Julia was this Chancer trying to claim her grandfather just so that she could get William off on kidnapping charges. But the more she reads, the more she realizes that Julia and Lessie were in the exact same position.
[00:31:50] They'd both lost children. She also didn't appreciate the way that the media was so unnecessarily judgmental towards Julia for not recognizing her own child when, according to what she was reading, neither did Lesi. [00:32:00] To Margaret, whatever Julia's reason for wanting to claim Bobby, it was probably outta grief and something that she found herself really sympathizing with.
[00:32:09] Then one day Margaret finds a post on a genealogy website about Julia, which is the first major eyeopener for her. It said Julia had a son from her first marriage named Bruce, who was kidnapped from North Carolina when he was six years old, and then taken to Louisiana. She tried to get him back, but the people who kidnapped him won him in court [00:32:30] and changed his name to Bobby Dunbar.
[00:32:32] So this post was probably submitted by Julius's family right later down the line. But on reading this, Margaret considers for the very first time that there was another family out there that had a very different take on what had actually happened in this story.
[00:32:42] Adam Cox: Yeah,
[00:32:43] Kyle Risi: the Dunbar story was our son was kidnapped and returned, but now she's reading Julia's account, which was our son was kidnapped and taken away forever.
[00:32:51] Adam Cox: Yeah.
[00:32:52] Kyle Risi: Interesting, isn't it?
[00:32:53] Adam Cox: So this was just on what, something like 23 and me, that kind of thing?
[00:32:57] Kyle Risi: Yeah, like ancestry.com or something like that? Mm-hmm. Yeah. [00:33:00] As a result, Margaret decides that she needs more information. She goes hunting for some of Julia's descendants, which introduces her to Hollis and Jewel, who are Julia's two surviving children as well as Julia's granddaughter, Linda.
[00:33:13] Adam Cox: Oh, so she had more children then? Yes.
[00:33:15] Kyle Risi: Hollis and Jewel tell her that after Bobby returned home, Julia moved to Poplarville in Mississippi about 320 kilometers from Opelousas in Louisiana. There she ends up having seven more kids at, so 10 in total is what she had across her life. [00:33:30] As they continued, they painted a very different picture of who Julia was that she had in her mind.
[00:33:34] They tell her that throughout Julia's life, she was actually really revered, not just by her family, but also by the wider community. She basically acted as the community's nurse and midwife, and after turning to Christianity, she literally found the local community church.
[00:33:49] Adam Cox: So this doesn't sound like a person who would make out that she's lost a child.
[00:33:53] Kyle Risi: Yeah. That she's not converting with criminals and kidnappers and things like that. Just to try and get someone off of a kidnapping charge basically. Mm-hmm. [00:34:00] The kids talks about how in spite of how poor they were, Julie was extraordinarily resourceful, going to extraordinarily length. To make sure that her kids had clothes, like sewing clothes out of fertilizer sacks, and even going without food herself just to make sure they always had a meal.
[00:34:14] So again, in total contrast to everything Margaret has ever been told or what she assumed in her mind about who this woman was. Sure Stories she'd heard in the newspaper articles portrayed her with zero compassion, implying that she was this mad woman, even possibly a prostitute. Yet [00:34:30] there was an entire community that remembered her as this revered, compassionate, resourceful, kind of sat line figure almost.
[00:34:36] Hollis told Margaret as well that Julia never forgot about Bobby. What's really interesting here is when Hollis says that he doesn't refer to him as Bruce, he calls him Bobby. And that's because. Julia continued to refer to him as Bobby.
[00:34:51] Adam Cox: Why is that then? Just because she accepted that he had been taken from her?
[00:34:54] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I think so. It is part probably because Julia accepted that's who he was now. They [00:35:00] also told Margaret that if it had been possible for her to have gotten the child back, legally she would've done it, but they just didn't have the money, so they just had to accept it. Mm-hmm. They also talked about how they understood, even at that point, how wealthy and powerful the Dunbars were as a family.
[00:35:16] Their names were everywhere in obl on many of the signs in the shop fronts. They said that if the dumbbells were able to take mama's son. Then what kind of people were they to begin with? If people can go through the courts and get away with it, who were they to then interfere. [00:35:30] And so, like I said, they just accepted it.
[00:35:32] They accepted that Bruce was now Bobby, and that was partly the reason why Julia. And so the rest of the family continued to refer to Bruce as Bobby. Even all these years later,
[00:35:42] Adam Cox: it's odd, almost accepting that Bobby is not. Part of the family anymore.
[00:35:46] Kyle Risi: Yeah.
[00:35:46] Adam Cox: But she went on to have seven more children.
[00:35:48] Mm-hmm. Is that to kind of still make up for the fact that she didn't have any family? I guess
[00:35:53] Kyle Risi: Adam, it's 1912. I don't think contraception is readily available. Oh, okay. And she's probably a pretty lady. I dunno. [00:36:00] But also they tell Margaret that as much as they wondered about Bobby over the years, they believe that Bobby also wondered about them too.
[00:36:05] Adam Cox: Why did they think that?
[00:36:06] Kyle Risi: Well, initially, Margaret Scoffs at this, right? But Hollis tells her a story from when he was in his twenties. He was working in an ice plant in Poplarville when a man he didn't recognize came in and started chatting to him. The man introduced himself as Bobby Dunbar. But at that same moment, the customer walked in, and so Hollis had to rush off to work.
[00:36:24] And so eventually Bobby left. But 30 minutes later, Hollis realizes who he is. [00:36:30] So the insinuation there is that over the years Bobby had obviously wondered about the story and wondered whether or not it was true and had come to see basically his siblings.
[00:36:39] Adam Cox: Interesting. That's a shame that they never got to talk properly.
[00:36:42] I wonder if he chickened out there.
[00:36:44] Kyle Risi: Well. Jules also tells a similar story about when she was working in a petrol station. A man had come in and started talking to her. They drank coffee together for about an hour. He asked her a ton of questions, but she never got his name and she says in hindsight, she believed that was Bobby.
[00:36:58] So to Margaret, she [00:37:00] does not know what to make about this. While everything she knew about Julia had been turned on his head, there was never any question that a grandfather was Bobby Dunbar. Mm-hmm. When she gets back home, she's sharing the research with her aunts and uncles. Remember, those are Bobby's kids, right?
[00:37:14] She tells them about what Hollis and Jules had said. They kind of sort of give each other a knowing look, which Margaret kind of picks up on. And they tell her that when they were teenagers, they were driving home from a wedding when they passed through Mississippi. And Bobby had said to the kids that this [00:37:30] was where his parents had collected him from after he was found.
[00:37:33] Adam Cox: Okay.
[00:37:34] Kyle Risi: He asked his wife if they should stop, and her response was, if you think you should, and so they stopped and Bobby went into a store where apparently he stayed for 30 minutes before coming back out to the car, and then they just drove home. So there's no question that this didn't happen. It clearly did, but both sides interpreted very differently.
[00:37:51] Right? For Hollist and Jules, this was their lost brother, Bobby trying to make contact. But for Margaret, this was her grandfather. Just curious about his kidnapping.
[00:37:59] Adam Cox: Yeah. [00:38:00] What
[00:38:00] Kyle Risi: do you believe?
[00:38:00] Adam Cox: I dunno. So when he disappeared into a store for 30 minutes, that was when he was seeing one of the siblings
[00:38:07] Kyle Risi: in the ice pick plant.
[00:38:08] Yeah.
[00:38:09] Adam Cox: Interesting. But he was just saying, oh, this is where he got picked up once. And
[00:38:12] Kyle Risi: it's by some strange coincidence that he walked into a store and he came face to face with his brother.
[00:38:18] Adam Cox: Did he expect to see that though? Because if he had been doing some research, maybe he drove past on purpose, the fact
[00:38:23] Kyle Risi: that he then went and spoke to Jules if that account is true.
[00:38:27] Then that says that he'd done some research.
[00:38:28] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm. Interesting. [00:38:30] So he's not sure about his identity then, which makes me think he either does remember Julia, or he at least thinks that Lessie wasn't his real mom.
[00:38:38] Kyle Risi: Yeah. You wanted a fucking pony man. So following this, Margaret joins forces with Linda. That would be Julia's granddaughter.
[00:38:47] Okay. And together they start exploring the story, both of whom are still coming from these very different angles, right? And so they do end up butting heads a little. This sort of all comes to a head when Margaret is invited to present her research at the local [00:39:00] historical society in Mississippi. Hollis, Jules and Linda, they're all there to watch.
[00:39:03] Margaret present her findings from the scrapbook and listening to Margaret Linda ends up becoming really deeply hurt by the way that Margaret keeps referring to Julia. She's describing her as this illegitimate child of a domestic, describing her as working the fields with coarse dirty and bare feet and having several kids outta wedlock.
[00:39:22] So Linda, this just wasn't a nice way to hear it put. Even though it's objectively true, it just seemed like there was an undertone of like kind of [00:39:30] you are looking your nose down at this person who's my grandmother. Mm-hmm. Linda tells her afterwards that she feels that Margaret might be telling the story from her perspective for far too long and that she might benefit from changing that in order to move her research forward.
[00:39:43] She tells Margaret that the woman that you maligned at that meeting could very well turn out to be your great-grandmother.
[00:39:49] Adam Cox: Yeah. 'cause I guess actually if Bobby is part of a different family tree, then yeah. That Margaret is as well. So therefore, yeah, they're related. So That's right.
[00:39:59] Kyle Risi: And then up to this [00:40:00] point, Margaret still believes that Bobby is Bobby.
[00:40:03] She's not questioning it, but she's saying that very well could be a possibility.
[00:40:07] Adam Cox: Yeah. At least consider that option.
[00:40:09] Kyle Risi: Exactly. She said, you spend too much time allowing Julia's character to cl what you know of the story. And perhaps you should spend a little more time looking at Percy Lessie through that same lens, basically, is what she's saying.
[00:40:20] Mm-hmm. And at first, this really angers her, but eventually she realizes that Linda is 100% right, because remember, Percy wasn't exactly a saint. He stabbed a guy after all.
[00:40:29] Adam Cox: Yeah. [00:40:30] And cohabitated with cohabitated with another woman.
[00:40:33] Kyle Risi: Exactly. So Margaret starts typing out the collection of nearly 1200 additional articles that she's collected over the years.
[00:40:39] Right. The aim is for her to digitize them all and then make them accessible to other people who are interested in this story. While doing this, she realizes that there is a really big piece of this puzzle that is still missing, and that is William Walters himself, the very man who kidnapped her grandfather.
[00:40:55] And in 2003, she finds some names in the Walters genealogy records, and so [00:41:00] she reaches out to William's, great Grandnieces, Jean and Barbara, who also. Grew up hearing this story, they tell Margaret that they remember their uncle describing Julia as a fine young lady who had ended up being entrapped by a handsome man, which I think just means someone got a pregnancy and then left.
[00:41:17] I see. The rumors were though, however, that that handsome man was, in fact, William's brother, so their other uncle. But everyone denies it, which I believe, I don't think that he was dad largely because the [00:41:30] stakes on as high for a guy having a baby outta wedlock. So if he was the father, I don't see any issue with just admitting that you were the father.
[00:41:36] Adam Cox: Yeah, sure. So. Walter's never said that. He's just, and he just looks after Julia's child at one point. Yeah,
[00:41:42] Kyle Risi: and you gotta remember, Julia worked for their farm as well, so they probably had a relationship there as well. When Bruce was born, he was growing up, he became really attached to William and so I don't see why it would be out of the question for him to agree to look after Bruce while Julia went off to find work.
[00:41:58] Adam Cox: Yeah. He's almost become a [00:42:00] family friend really.
[00:42:00] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Jean and Barbara again, they describe how William was a traveling tinkerer, fixing pianos and organs, and he was also on the road a lot, and one or two times a year he would visit them at their home. They remember their grandfather and William. They would talk into the night about the trial and there was never any insinuation amongst the family that he had kidnapped this kid intentionally or maliciously, right?
[00:42:22] Mm-hmm. Remember she was an ex farmhand? Mm-hmm. Who works on the farm. They do remember though their grandfather asking why he was even traveling with a [00:42:30] child in the first place, which is when William told them that the boy was really great for business, but also that he was really fond of Bruce and Julia and that he agreed to look after him and saw Julia got on his feet.
[00:42:39] So I, I get why he would want to look after he has a concern for the child and for Julia.
[00:42:45] Adam Cox: And he wants some money. Yes, of course, of course. Yeah,
[00:42:47] Kyle Risi: yeah, yeah. So Margaret gets wondering about the trial that they were discussing and she wonder whether or not she can get hold of the trial transcripts. She decides to see if she can find any of the descendants of William's defense lawyer who defended him at the time.
[00:42:59] And [00:43:00] to a surprise, she finds his great granddaughter who tells her she still had the original case file that her grandfather had been keeping in a cupboard all these years. So Margaret drops everything. She buys a portable scanner. She spends the next week scanning the entire file, and then four months transcribing and deciphering all of it.
[00:43:18] The files contain everything from court documents to correspondence between governors of Mississippi and Louisiana. She finds handwritten letters from Julia herself, including sworn affidavits from [00:43:30] testifying that the boy was, in fact, Bruce Anderson, and that they had seen him with William months before Bobby Dunbar went missing.
[00:43:39] Adam Cox: Oh wow. So none of this was ever taken into consideration, or at least not seriously.
[00:43:45] Kyle Risi: These are the court files, so they should have been, but clearly wealth, money, power. They obviously trumped everything, didn't they?
[00:43:52] Adam Cox: And then you've got the boy who's just gone. Yeah, no, Leslie's my mom. Why would the boy lie
[00:43:57] Kyle Risi: Hidden amongst letters was a letter from [00:44:00] William Walters addressed to Percy Dunbar, and it was written a few days after William was arrested.
[00:44:07] It said, I see that you've got Bruce, but you have heaped up trouble for yourself. I had no chance to prove up, but I know by now you have decided you were wrong. It is very likely I'll lose my life on account of that, and if I do, the great God will hold you accountable. That boy's mother is Julia Anderson.
[00:44:22] You ask him and he will tell you. I did not teach him to bagel bum, but in as much as you have him now, take good care of him. [00:44:30] So you have lost to Robert and me lost to Bruce. But may God bless my darling boy. Write me if I do not get lynched. I think you'll be sad a long time, but I hope not too bad. So what do you make of that letter, do you think?
[00:44:41] That is the letter of an innocent man. It
[00:44:44] Adam Cox: seems genuine 'cause why else would you write that at a Yeah.
[00:44:47] Kyle Risi: Outta concern. That's deep concern for a child, right? Like he didn't, no one kidnaps the child because they really love that child and want that child for themselves. He obviously had a bond with this child.
[00:44:57] Mm-hmm And he's obviously cares deeply about [00:45:00] Julia. Otherwise he wouldn't have written this letter. Yeah. Also the file contained another letter which Margaret says was her epiphany. It was signed merely from a Christian woman and Adam. It read kindly, pardon me, I'm ill in bed, but this matter has just worried me.
[00:45:16] Dear Sir, in view of the human justice to Julia Anderson, I'm prompted to write this letter. I sincerely believe that the Dunbars have Bruce Anderson and not their boy. If this is their child, why are they afraid for [00:45:30] anyone to see or interview him privately? I would see nothing to fear, and this seems strange.
[00:45:36] The letter does continue for six more pages, laying out basically point by point, common sense arguments that the Dunbars have the wrong child. She questioned why pictures of Bobby and Bruce had never been printed. They questioned why Julia was judged more harshly for wavering when identifying the boy when Lessie had done the exact same thing.
[00:45:54] Sure. She goes on to write, if this had been their own child and had been gone for eight months, do you think his features would [00:46:00] be so changed that they would not know him only by the moles and scars on his body? If the Dunbars do not know their child who's only been gone eight months, then why they don't know him at all.
[00:46:11] Adam Cox: That's what I said. Why do you need to bath this child in order to identify him exactly when it's only been a few months, not like it's been 10 years or he's been a. Horrifically
[00:46:22] Kyle Risi: mauled by a bear.
[00:46:23] Adam Cox: Yeah. And you now can't recognize him by his face. Mm-hmm. This is just, it's stupid. So this is Margaret's [00:46:30] epiphany.
[00:46:30] She hadn't looked at it like that until now.
[00:46:33] Kyle Risi: Exactly. In this moment, Margaret realizes the woman in this letter was right. This was a fass. So for the very first time since Linda told her to broaden her perspective, Margaret has no choice but to doubt her family's version of the story. She decides to revisit Percy and Leslie's past to see if they contained any clues towards their characters that might indicate whether or not they were capable of lying about Bobby's identity.
[00:46:56] And amongst the things she finds, she finds courtroom documents [00:47:00] on Percy's stabbing of that man in Florida, the charges against him for adultery and living with another woman as well as. The eventual divorce certificate that all this led to. But amongst all of this, she finds a handwritten note from Lesi to her granddaughter Elizabeth, who cared for her in her old age.
[00:47:18] On the envelope it said. For Elizabeth Dunbar to read after my death, so she may know why I stayed in my shell of grief. The actual note itself does remain private, but according to this [00:47:30] American Life website, it's this deeply emotional letter where Leslie expresses how Bobby's disappearance shaped who she'd become later in life.
[00:47:37] It doesn't explicitly say whether or not she knew Bobby wasn't a child. But it is a sadness that she carried with her for her whole life, which is only really possible if the boy who returned to her back in 1912 wasn't Bobby. Otherwise, she would've eventually let go of all of that grief. Do you know what I mean?
[00:47:55] She would've found happiness.
[00:47:56] Adam Cox: Yeah.
[00:47:57] Kyle Risi: With his eventual return.
[00:47:58] Adam Cox: Exactly. She would've put that all [00:48:00] behind her. So if she's still documenting this kind of sadness mm-hmm. Then she knows that she's done wrong.
[00:48:04] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And remember, this is her parting words.
[00:48:06] Adam Cox: Yeah. I dunno, how could you do that? Like you're taking a child away from another mother.
[00:48:11] Kyle Risi: So Margaret believes that on some level, Les knew maybe she was living in denial. Maybe she never wanted to admit it. Maybe she didn't want to ever admit it outright. Do you know what I mean? Mm. But she knew on some level, she says that after reading all the articles, the court records, the divorce papers, she wondered whether Percy was capable.
[00:48:28] Of maybe doing something [00:48:30] this or pushing something like this forward. If he stabbed a man, could he lie about who Bobby was in order to save Lessie sanity after losing the real Bobby? Mm-hmm. So Margaret has done basically a 180 turn, and all of this is a massive revelation for her. What she doesn't bank on though is that this shift in her perspective makes her a literal outcast amongst the wider family.
[00:48:52] As far as they were concerned. Bobby was a Dunbar and whatever the past revealed should stay in the past, which is just wild to me because all these years [00:49:00] later, with Bobby now dead. It wasn't going to change who they were. Nobody was standing there with deed poll documents, forcing him to change their names.
[00:49:07] If he turned out to not be a Dunbar,
[00:49:09] Adam Cox: yeah, I guess it, it wouldn't have really changed 'cause they're disconnected from that part of history now. But then I guess it's kind of like, well. They've lived a lie, so to speak, and actually they could, but they haven't lived a lie. They've still lived the exact same life.
[00:49:25] True. But I think obviously where their family comes from actually is a different family tree. [00:49:30]
[00:49:30] Kyle Risi: It's interesting. I don't know, but Margaret can't let this go, so she floats the idea of doing a DNA test, which Bobby's kids all vehemently reject, but Margaret's father, Bobby, Jr. He wants to do it. He writes a letter to all of his siblings saying that the Dunbars had all grown up as legends.
[00:49:47] Daddy never questioned his identity to us directly, but the fact that he kept all the stuff in the attic showed on some level he did. He says, daddy did not have the science of DNA to confirm the decision that the courts had made [00:50:00] on his behalf when he was just a kid, and so he feels that it's his responsibility to achieve that before he dies.
[00:50:06] Adam Cox: Yeah, you'd wanna know, wouldn't you?
[00:50:08] Kyle Risi: Yeah. So to him, even though he believes that Bobby is a dumber, he just wants to put all the speculation to rest. That's his thinking at this moment in time.
[00:50:17] Adam Cox: Oh, so he is not doubting it. He just wants fact or proof that he's a dumber.
[00:50:19] Kyle Risi: Exactly. So he agrees for Margaret to initiate the test.
[00:50:23] He tells the siblings that even though they will do the DNA test, they're gonna keep the file sealed until all the siblings, or in the event that they [00:50:30] die, that their descendants agree to open the file.
[00:50:32] Adam Cox: Oh. So they're not gonna find out.
[00:50:34] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's right. So the plan was to compare Bobby Junior's DNA with the DNA from Lonzo's side of the family.
[00:50:41] After a month or so, Margaret phones up the lab to check to see if the paperwork is ready and whether or not she can pick them up. The assistant has it. She thinks that this is just a routine paternity test, and so she has no idea that this file is meant to remain sealed. And so on the phone she just blurts out the results.
[00:50:57] Adam Cox: Oh, really? So was Margaret gonna be [00:51:00] happy to like not know the results for a while then? Probably not.
[00:51:04] Kyle Risi: She's been pouring herself over this case for ages. Yeah, but the thing is though, it's Elisa step in the right direction. Right.
[00:51:10] Adam Cox: I would've imagined she would've bought the kettle, got the envelope over it, got it to kind of open up so she could look in and seal it back up.
[00:51:17] Kyle Risi: She doesn't need to do that because this assistant has just blurted them out. But can you imagine under any other circumstances? Yes, Margaret, the test results show positive for Chlamydia and Margaret is like, um. I've got you on [00:51:30] speakerphone and I am in my office and now everyone knows. Say hello to Ann, my assistant.
[00:51:37] So in classic Jeremy Kyle, DNA fashion style. Adam, I'm gonna reveal to you the results right now
[00:51:44] Adam Cox: I reckon is not the father,
[00:51:46] Kyle Risi: Adam. I can reveal that the DNA result tests show that Bobby and Alonzo Dunbar. Are not related to that. I mean, we [00:52:00] knew, did we? So when Margaret tells her dad the results, he's obviously stunned saying that he hadn't considered this as a possible result.
[00:52:07] He obviously just thought that he was going to prove that Daddy was a Bobby Dunbar.
[00:52:13] Adam Cox: I don't think a grown man should ever call their dad. I know, especially when you're like in your eighties or a grown woman, just no one do that.
[00:52:20] Kyle Risi: Margaret says, if my past is wrong, Bobby Dunbar, all the legends, all the stories, and then suddenly you find out that's not who your blood says you are.
[00:52:29] [00:52:30] Where does that leave me? If my grandpa isn't my grandpa, then who am I? So of course, the extended family find out about the results when they're revealed. They are furious as far as they are concerned. They were Dunbars and nothing was gonna change that, which is true. Nothing needs to change. But I guess to them, the Dunbar name carried some kind of legacy because Bobby Jr.
[00:52:49] Described them all as legends, right? Mm-hmm. So it's clearly important to them. Still knowing the biological truth doesn't erase a life lived. Do you know what I mean? When the Andersons find out about the [00:53:00] results, they are of course off thrilled, especially William MA's family, because to them this is vindication, right?
[00:53:05] Mm-hmm. William did not kidnap anyone, but to be clear, he did kidnap Bruce, though we can't forget that. He did take Bruce for 14 months.
[00:53:13] Adam Cox: But she seemed fine with it.
[00:53:15] Kyle Risi: Yeah, she did. Hol said, when we heard about the results, that was the day that Bobby came home. The one thing our mother wanted most was her child back, and now she finally got him.
[00:53:24] So it's quite sad. Really? Mm-hmm. And she's not even around to see it. I mean, it is tricky because the [00:53:30] results don't actually prove that Bobby was Bruce, only that Bobby and Alonzo were not related.
[00:53:35] Adam Cox: That was my point. Do we ever find out the truth there?
[00:53:39] Kyle Risi: No. It's just assumed that he was Bruce, basically. So they really.
[00:53:45] He's not Bobby. And that's, that's a, a big assumption that you can then leap to, to say, well, he must have been being Bruce
[00:53:51] Adam Cox: unless he was another child altogether. And then I guess William is kind of like, yeah, that's the boy. And Julia sort of [00:54:00] recognizes him. It's been 14 months, so I can understand why she might not recognize him at first.
[00:54:05] And she needs to see him in a bathtub.
[00:54:06] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Needs to see a boy naked.
[00:54:09] Adam Cox: So if Bobby was actually Bruce, then where is Bobby? Did the alligators get him?
[00:54:14] Kyle Risi: Well, Margaret believes that the real Bobby fell into Swayze Lake and Ether drowned, or as you just said, was taken by an alligator, basically in the American Life Podcast, which is really great.
[00:54:25] They go off and they interview a lot of the family members, and it's centered around Margaret. Margaret [00:54:30] takes them on a sort of pilgrimage back to the lake where it all started and they stand on the bridge where they think he fell in. They say this based on them at the time, finding kind of tiny footprints in 1912, but there are some other theories that have been floated as well.
[00:54:43] Some think that maybe Percy had killed Bobby and then use Bruce Anderson essentially to cover it up. It's not a popular theory, but it is certainly one of them. And Percy didn't really have the best character and remember he stabbed a guy. And he was an adulterer and his marriage to lessie [00:55:00] deteriorated pretty soon after this.
[00:55:02] Adam Cox: Yeah. Just because he attempted to murder someone it doesn't And he was having an affair. Doesn't mean to say that he would kill a child.
[00:55:07] Kyle Risi: It's true,
[00:55:08] Adam Cox: but he isn't a good character.
[00:55:10] Kyle Risi: But also, maybe it's the reason why Lessie was so miserable throughout her whole life. This was a grief that she carried around with her.
[00:55:17] So it's, it is a possibility.
[00:55:19] Adam Cox: I just don't feel like you could get away with it these days. Like you can't pretend that someone else is your son.
[00:55:25] Kyle Risi: No, definitely not. Not with every motherfucker has a photograph of you. Yeah. There'll be some CCTV out there [00:55:30] somewhere. Yeah. As soon as someone's born here on Instagram.
[00:55:31] Yeah. Before even sometimes. Yeah. But Adam, that is the story of the mysterious disappearance of Bobby Dunbar.
[00:55:38] Adam Cox: Wow. Yeah. What a conundrum. What a, it's quite nice to have like a family drum or like unearth some kind of secret like that, isn't it?
[00:55:46] Kyle Risi: Mm.
[00:55:46] Adam Cox: But then equally I can understand for like Bobby's children, I dunno, I guess they feel a little bit lied to, even though their dad really never told them who he was.
[00:55:55] Kyle Risi: But does he know? Does he know for sure? He had a
[00:55:57] Adam Cox: suspicion though.
[00:55:58] Kyle Risi: But did he though? [00:56:00] Because again, you, I could still believe. Mar's accounts and the Anderson's accounts whereby he went and visited because he was curious about the kidnapping. Whereas they're asserting that he was curious because he believed that he was Bruce.
[00:56:14] Mm. So I don't know about that aspect of it. True. Yeah, the DNA test results show at the very least, that he is not related to Alonzo. So he could, as you said, be a completely other boy.
[00:56:25] Adam Cox: That would be
[00:56:26] Kyle Risi: wild. Yeah. So you've never heard of the story before?
[00:56:28] Adam Cox: No. The [00:56:30] Dunbars as well. They feel like they belong in like Dynasty or Dallas.
[00:56:32] They do. They do.
[00:56:33] Kyle Risi: It does. I kept thinking of the Murdoch murders. Mm-hmm. Which I think we should do an episode on, but I think that's, that's quite an epic one to do.
[00:56:39] Adam Cox: That is an epic. Yeah.
[00:56:41] Kyle Risi: Anyway, should we, uh, should we run the outro for this week? Let's
[00:56:44] Adam Cox: do
[00:56:44] Kyle Risi: it. And so that brings us to the end of another fascinating foray into the compendium and assembly of fascinating things.
[00:56:50] We hope you enjoyed the ride as much as we did.
[00:56:53] Adam Cox: And if today's episode has sparked your curiosity, then please do us a favor and follow us on your favorite podcast app. It truly makes [00:57:00] a world of difference and helps more people discover the show.
[00:57:02] Kyle Risi: And for our dedicated freaks out there, don't forget that next week's episode is already waiting for you on our Patreon, and it is completely free to access.
[00:57:10] Adam Cox: And if you want, even more than join our certified freak tier to unlock the entire archive, delve into exclusive content and get a sneak peek at what's coming next. We'd love for you to be part of our growing community.
[00:57:20] Kyle Risi: We drop new episodes every Tuesday, and until then, remember, sometimes the truth waits longer than a lifetime to be believed.
[00:57:29] Ooh, [00:57:30] see you next week.
[00:57:30] Adam Cox: See ya. [00:58:00]