The Tromp Family Mystery: The Australian Family Who Fled Their Own Minds

[00:00:00] Kyle Risi: In 2016, a family of five flee their farm in a single car. No phones, no money and no plan.

500 miles later, the son abandons them. The daughters steal a car and then report their own parents missing. A mother found wandering, a strange town, a daughter catatonic in the back of a strangest pickup, and a father who vanished into a park.

[00:00:29] Adam Cox: What were they running from?

[00:00:31] Kyle Risi: Honestly, this is something that not even the Trumps can tell you.

They weren't running from something Adam. They were literally scattering.

Welcome to the Compendium and Assembly of Fascinating Things, a weekly variety podcast that gives you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering.

[00:01:17] Adam Cox: We explore strange true stories from the worlds of true crime, dark history, scandals, mysteries, and remarkable people.

[00:01:24] Kyle Risi: I'm Kyle Rei, your Ring Master for this week's episode,

[00:01:27] Adam Cox: and I am Adam Cox, the intimacy coordinator for this week.

[00:01:32] Kyle Risi: Oh, oh God. Go on then.

[00:01:35] Adam Cox: Well, we've got a up and coming production of Romeo and Juliet.

[00:01:39] Kyle Risi: Uhhuh

[00:01:39] Adam Cox: and the chimps. And the orangutans feel like they need something, you know, to make sure you, we keep it professional on set.

[00:01:47] Kyle Risi: I have the perfect answer for that, Adam. That's way cheaper than we don't need you. We just need a cold hose.

God,

[00:01:54] Adam Cox: a spray bottle.

[00:01:55] Kyle Risi: Yeah,

[00:01:56] Adam Cox: too much. Too much. People are getting excited. Let's take a break.

[00:02:00] Kyle Risi: Very good. I think I, yeah. Let's see. I'll put some budget to start for that role, guys, if you are new to the show and you wanna support us, then of course the absolute best way that you can support the show and enjoy exclusive perks is to join us over a Patreon, because signing up is free and you'll get access to next week's episode a whole seven days before anyone else.

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[00:02:26] Kyle Risi: including classic episodes, such as

[00:02:29] Adam Cox: go look for them.

[00:02:31] Kyle Risi: Hey, this is a new season and we have committed to potentially bringing some exclusive new contents for our Patreons.

[00:02:37] Adam Cox: Well, that's even better.

Why didn't you say about that? We're still trying to promote those old episodes.

[00:02:42] Kyle Risi: Yeah, we are. But hopefully things will change. Who knows? But guys, let's be honest, the real reason to sign up as a certified freak or a big top tier member is that you get exclusive access to that compendium key chain so that we can always be there dangling near your crotch.

[00:02:57] Adam Cox: Beautiful.

[00:02:57] Kyle Risi: Lovely.

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[00:03:12] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And, and we deserve it, guys, if you love us, then we deserve it.

So, Adam, that is enough of the housekeeping because today on the compendium, we are diving into an assembly of unlock doors, untaken essentials, and the terror of running from something.

[00:03:29] Adam Cox: Well, that's as cryptic as ever,

[00:03:32] Kyle Risi: as ever.

[00:03:32] Adam Cox: Mm.

[00:03:33] Kyle Risi: How about this, let's just dive straight into it today, right? No preamble, no.

Kind of teasing it out. In 2016, around 30 miles east of Melbourne, Australia. That's right. We're going back to Australia.

[00:03:46] Adam Cox: Okay.

[00:03:46] Kyle Risi: There was the small town of Sylvan home to around 1,300 residents. Now, this small, unassuming town, Adam, was about to become the setting for one of Australia's most bizarre modern day mysteries.

A mystery so strange that even today nobody can quite agree what fully happened.

[00:04:09] Adam Cox: Okay?

[00:04:10] Kyle Risi: The people at the heart of the story were the Trump family. Not the Trumps. The Trumps.

[00:04:15] Adam Cox: How are you spelling that?

[00:04:16] Kyle Risi: T-R-O-M-P.

[00:04:18] Adam Cox: Trump.

[00:04:19] Kyle Risi: Trump,

[00:04:19] Adam Cox: okay.

[00:04:20] Kyle Risi: Yeah. A strange name, isn't it? I can understand Trump, but Trump.

[00:04:24] Adam Cox: Trump, Trump.

The Trumps. The Trumps.

[00:04:28] Kyle Risi: Anyway, Adam, the Trump's on the face of it. And by all accounts. They are literally just a regular, hardworking, extremely close and loving family. The Trumps consisted of mom, Jacoba 53, also known as Kobe to all of her friends and family. The dad was Mark, he's 51, a dedicated husband and father, and an extremely hard worker winner came to providing for his family.

Now together, Jacoba and Mark, she three adult children, Rhiannon 29. She's the eldest Mitchell 25, and the youngest was Ella at 22 years old. Now the Trumps, they lived in Parkview Farm where as a family they managed a red current farm as well as an earth moving business.

[00:05:07] Adam Cox: Okay, what's an earth moving business?

[00:05:09] Kyle Risi: So like I'll, like, I need to remove, excavate like 25 tonnes of this land from this area. And so they go and dig up the dirt and then they'll remove it. So maybe they might even deliver that dirt to someone else, whoever wants to buy it.

[00:05:21] Adam Cox: I see. Right

[00:05:22] Kyle Risi: now the family's business took an extraordinary amount of their time.

It was routine for them to work literally seven days a week just to keep things sticking over. But even though they worked tirelessly around the clock, the Trumps were described as a fairly close family. Their values as a unit seem to revolve around hard work and family synergy. However, Adam, on the 30th of August, 2016, the police receive a phone call that would usher in one of the strangest mysteries in modern Australian history.

When someone reported that Jacoba and Mark were missing

[00:05:54] Adam Cox: like a neighbour or a family friend.

[00:05:56] Kyle Risi: Hmm, we'll find out.

[00:05:58] Adam Cox: Okay.

[00:05:58] Kyle Risi: When the police arrived at the property, they were met with a very unusual scene. Mark and Jacoba were indeed missing, but so were their three children. The Trump's farm demanded someone be there around the clock.

So it was immediately concerning that nobody was there. What made the scene even more concerning was that four of the family's five vehicles were still on the property, each with their keys still in the ignition. Initially, it wasn't the keys in the ignition that concerned them since obviously rural living meant that people left their cars in the ignition just for convenience, right.

It was the car that was missing to the cops that kind of felt off. It belonged to their youngest daughter, Ella. If the family did all leave together, wouldn't it make sense to take Mark or Ja Jacob's car? Do you know what I mean? 'cause obviously it would be a lot larger, a lot more spacious for five people, right?

[00:06:48] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:06:48] Kyle Risi: As the cops continued to look around the farm, they noticed that the Trumps had also left their house completely unlocked. When they entered the house was in a bit of disarray on the table. They found all the families, passports, credit cards, and four of the family's mobile phones. One was missing.

Was it Ellis?

[00:07:06] Adam Cox: Hang on a minute. So they've done a runner.

[00:07:08] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:08] Adam Cox: Or they've been kidnapped. Mm-hmm. Or something. But then it'd be odd just to kind of lay out your phones unless they're forced to lay out their phones. Mm-hmm. And their passports.

[00:07:16] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:16] Adam Cox: What was going on?

[00:07:18] Kyle Risi: The thing is though, at this point, the cops hadn't really kind of put that detail together, that.

The, like one of the mobile phones was missing. Mm-hmm. Right? They just saw four of them. For them, the way the pieces were coming together seemed to indicate that perhaps the family had been planning a trip only to leave without the core essentials. But as police studied the scene closer, that initial assumption was challenged because all around them seemed to be lots of the family's business and financial documents.

They weren't neatly arranged in stacks. Instead, they seemingly were scattered across various surfaces, almost as though someone had been frantically looking for something. And so this notion of a hurried family trip suddenly looked like a hurried family escape.

[00:08:01] Adam Cox: So what, so they've got all their finance records out, like, um, what do, yeah.

Why would you do that?

[00:08:06] Kyle Risi: It seems like the family are in trouble, right?

[00:08:08] Adam Cox: It, yeah, I

[00:08:09] Kyle Risi: was someone after them. Is that why they had to leave in a rush?

[00:08:11] Adam Cox: And that's why they don't lock the door because they left so quickly. Although saying that. If they leave their car unlocked, maybe that's just the thing to do wherever they live.

[00:08:20] Kyle Risi: I think that was kind of the thing that they did.

[00:08:22] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:23] Kyle Risi: But when the reports that the Trumps were missing had leaked to the media, what began as concern? Quickly turning to worry, because everyone who knew the Trumps kept saying the same thing. Their disappearance was completely out of character. The cops did everything they could to try and locate the family.

But as more and more details began to emerge, the story became even more bizarre. It started being framed as less of a crime scene and more of an unsettling puzzle that Adam, even today, people continue to speculate about theories, cults, criminal threats, demonic possession, and of course our favourite aliens.

As you always say, Adam, it's never aliens.

[00:09:06] Adam Cox: It might one of these days

[00:09:07] Kyle Risi: until it is. Have you heard of the story before?

[00:09:11] Adam Cox: I have not. No.

[00:09:13] Kyle Risi: I have never heard of this story before until, of course, as usual, I stumbled across it on Reddit and I just fell down this rabbit hole. And so today I'm not gonna beat around the bush.

I think the story warrants us just diving straight in. However, in summary, today I am gonna tell you about the strange mystery of the Trump family. What we know happened and the theories behind it. And I say theories because the reality is we can never really be sure. All that we know is that something very, very odd happened.

And if you were waiting for that final pool of intrigue, let me just say this, not even the Trumps themselves can fully explain what really happened.

[00:09:51] Adam Cox: Okay, so they make it, or some of them make it out alive?

[00:09:54] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And even then they're like,

[00:09:56] Adam Cox: what do they not even re remember doing this? They're like, we, we just went to the shops.

[00:10:02] Kyle Risi: Yeah, maybe it is eight. So Adam, so understand what happened. We need to travel back to Monday the 29th of August. This is literally the day before the cops show up at the Trump family, only to find it deserted. What we do know is that early on in that day, the entire family left the farm in 22-year-old EZ per show.

It seemed that the family intentionally left without their phones, but also their credit cards in their passports. Even though they'd been gathered on the table with what appeared to be every intention to take them with them, it was as if they had left everything behind that might be able to be used to identify or track them.

Do you know what I mean?

[00:10:35] Adam Cox: That's what makes sense with the mobile phones.

[00:10:38] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:38] Adam Cox: But then with the passports, like they're not gonna be able to leave the country.

[00:10:42] Kyle Risi: Exactly. Maybe they thought that if they did try to get onto a plane, then that's recorded, right?

[00:10:46] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:10:47] Kyle Risi: At this point we don't know where the family is heading.

What we do know is that they travelled north because around 22 miles away, near Warton, mark realises that Mitchell that is their son, had snuck his mobile phone onto the trip. So that's who the mobile phone

[00:11:05] Adam Cox: belonged to. God damn Mitchell. He's just, he, he needed to go on his Snapchat.

[00:11:07] Kyle Risi: That's it. He He's addicted.

[00:11:08] Adam Cox: What?

[00:11:08] Kyle Risi: He's like every other young kid.

[00:11:10] Adam Cox: What year is this?

[00:11:11] Kyle Risi: 2016.

[00:11:12] Adam Cox: Okay. So yeah, Snapchat would've been around,

[00:11:14] Kyle Risi: would it? I can't remember that far back.

[00:11:16] Adam Cox: Well, Instagram one of them things.

[00:11:18] Kyle Risi: Anyway, mark is furious, right? And so he orders Mitchell to throw the phone out the window and so whatever is going on here, it seems like there was definitely this sense of perceived threat that was after them, right?

Mm-hmm. They definitely didn't want anyone tracking their movements from here. The Trumps continued driving throughout the rest of the day and into the night before. Eventually arriving in the town of Bathhurst, which is New South Wales, which by this point is around 472 miles northeast of where they originally left from, where their farm is.

Just to give you a sense of how far they've gone now, we've both been to both Melbourne and or Melbourne and Sydney.

[00:11:55] Adam Cox: I was gonna correct you on that. Yeah.

[00:11:56] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Our Australia listeners, we respect you so much. We're happy to say call it Melbourne, even though it's Melbourne. So they're currently northwest of Sydney, near the Blue Mountains area.

So they have driven all that way. Literally in just one day we took a plane from Cairnes to Melbourne, right? And that took ages. So I guess, I don't know, I dunno what the flight would be. Maybe an hour.

[00:12:17] Adam Cox: I dunno.

[00:12:18] Kyle Risi: But the point is, it's likely that they didn't stop to eat or sleep. If they did sleep, they all slept in the car, taking turns, maybe driving.

But also remember these aren't little kids sleeping in a car, right? These are five adults crammed in Ellis, Pergo.

[00:12:30] Adam Cox: And when you say Pergo, I'm getting given her age, like a 2 0 6 or 3 0 6. Quite a small car.

[00:12:36] Kyle Risi: I think it's like a mini SUV. Oh,

[00:12:39] Adam Cox: okay. So it's a bit bigger.

[00:12:40] Kyle Risi: Yeah, it's slightly bigger, but still it's probably not the best car of the family.

Do you know what I mean?

[00:12:44] Adam Cox: Like

[00:12:45] Kyle Risi: probably no air.

[00:12:46] Adam Cox: And you can't sit comfortably three adults in the back row.

[00:12:49] Kyle Risi: No, no. Especially for that distance and obviously needing to sleep. Right. So there's definitely a degree of urgency about this escape. Who or what they're running from is the question. The following morning on Tuesday, the 30th of August, around 7:00 AM the family were just outside the town of Kelso, which is also like a little suburb of Bathurst There.

Mitchell, for whatever reason, decides that he is gonna split off from the rest of the family and proceeds to head southeast towards Sydney, which is now even stranger. Right. Mitchell was roughly 472 miles away from home. He doesn't have a phone, no credit card. And now he's abandoning his family and heading towards Sydney.

He is like, good luck and thanks for all the vibes.

[00:13:29] Adam Cox: So he's just had enough.

[00:13:31] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Okay. What's happened? What's happened on this trip? Honestly, we do not know at this point why he broke off. It might be that whatever happened on this road trip up to this point, he's just had enough. Maybe he missed his phone or maybe his sister's farts were just too much for him.

You know, teenage well, 20-year-old something girl farts. I'm not a fan.

[00:13:50] Adam Cox: I mean he's a how old boy? He's 25.

[00:13:53] Kyle Risi: Yeah, he's like 25.

[00:13:54] Adam Cox: I think his farts are gonna be more dangerous.

[00:13:56] Kyle Risi: Do you reckon? Either way, Mitchell spits off. We know from here that the rest of the family start heading towards an area of the Blue Mountains known as the Gen Nolan Caves, and it's this specific location that has pushed the story into a whole new branch of speculation.

One that for some leans into the supernatural atom because the Gen Nolan caves are one of the oldest cave systems literally in the world. They feature huge sprawling limestone formations. There's underground rivers running through them. They feature impressive, I'm gonna get this wrong, Stalin tights and sta mites.

Do you remember we studied those in geography?

[00:14:33] Adam Cox: Yeah. Which ones? Which? Kyle?

[00:14:34] Kyle Risi: Um, the Stalin. Uh, do you know which ones are which?

[00:14:37] Adam Cox: Kyle? It's not about me. You are the host,

[00:14:41] Kyle Risi: the pointy ones and the stabby down ones.

[00:14:43] Adam Cox: Yeah. You got a 50 50 chance.

[00:14:46] Kyle Risi: That's right. And so these case for many of the indigenous communities represent deep cultural significance and they have done for like millennia.

It's a place surrounded by a huge amount of very unusual folklore. There is this belief that the caves have this power to draw people in, not aggressively like a pool. It's more like a lure. And sometimes that pool is often seen as kind of a protective pool. The spirits of the elders are sort of like calling people who are in danger towards the cave, guiding them somewhere safe, perhaps in some versions of their stories or the folklore is that if you ever feel this pull, you're not supposed to question it.

Like you don't ignore it, you don't wait, you just go straight to the caves. There are also some stories, however, that people hear whispers when they're in the caves. And it's not just the indigenous folklore either. Like tourists have also reported hearing these same whispers.

[00:15:41] Adam Cox: Okay. Right. Let me just get this straight.

So this family, like one of the parents or one of the kids are in danger, or the whole family's in danger, so they go on the run.

[00:15:51] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:52] Adam Cox: And they're either thinking they're gonna hide out some caves or the caves have, because you know, it's quiet, no one's gonna be there. Or the caves have spoken to them.

[00:16:00] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:16:00] Adam Cox: This whisper. Mm-hmm. Say, Hey, come hide out here.

[00:16:03] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:16:03] Adam Cox: Okay. What kind of boo hockey is this?

[00:16:06] Kyle Risi: Yes, exactly. But in other stories, the pull isn't always protective. Remember these stories go back millennia. Right. So they've evolved over time. But some people report that these voices or these whispers are something a little bit more sinister where tales are floating, lights that are seen inside the caves that tend to kind of draw people deeper into the cave system.

Especially those who typically fail to show the caves respect basically. They're not respectful enough. Or maybe you might exhibit some kind of arrogance kind of flare about you. They'll be like, you are gone. That's luin never to be seen again.

[00:16:41] Adam Cox: And they fall down a well.

[00:16:43] Kyle Risi: Exactly. And so a lot of people have been trapped according to the folklore.

And so based on the indigenous folklore, they've been a lot of speculation that the Trump's urgent arrival at the genomic caves wasn't just random. That maybe in some strange way the caves are calling out to them. Because at first this looks like the family are running away from someone in a hurry.

Right. But once you realise they ended up at the caves, it starts to feel like something else entirely. Not like they were running away from something, but perhaps maybe they were being pulled towards something

[00:17:15] Adam Cox: or,

[00:17:16] Kyle Risi: okay, here we go.

[00:17:17] Adam Cox: Is it that the family are just on holiday and the dad's gone? Do you know what, no technology guys we're gonna go and just have a good time without

[00:17:23] Kyle Risi: this.

That's completely plausible. Right. Especially like in 2026. Mm when everyone is so consumed by the mobile devices. Right? Like let's, let's just take a little holiday from our mobile for this.

[00:17:32] Adam Cox: Yeah. Let's go back

[00:17:33] Kyle Risi: to And our passports and our money.

[00:17:34] Adam Cox: That bit's a bit weird, but the phones I get while like, do you know what?

We're gonna leave them at home.

[00:17:39] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Now, here's where it gets strange, because we don't know exactly what happened at the genomic caves. Like we said for a moment, it felt like the family had received some kind of calling to come there, like the caves were the point of all of this. But then for some reason, Ella and Rihanna also decided to separate from their parents.

They steal a nearby car and drive 100 miles south to the town of Goulburn. What is odd is that it now feels like the family isn't just fleeing. It's almost like they're scattering.

[00:18:08] Adam Cox: Yeah. Like are they doing this on purpose, or are the daughters, have they had enough?

[00:18:13] Kyle Risi: Yeah. It's odd, isn't it? Because first they've hurriedly travelled north.

Then Mitchell abandons them, and then they continue on to the genomic caves. Something happens there, and now both Rihanna and Ella are like making a beeline south.

[00:18:25] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:26] Kyle Risi: When Ella and Rihanna arrive in Goldberg, they do something that kind of loops us back to the very beginning of the story, because they decide to then call the cops to report Mark and Jacoba missing.

This is the initial call we mentioned at the very start that reported they're missing. So it was Ella and

[00:18:43] Adam Cox: Hanon. That is so weird.

[00:18:44] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm. So I initially thought, does this call give us an indication of what might have happened at the cave? Like did they lose their parents? But if that is the case, why not stay there and wait for help to arrive?

Why then steal a car, travel a hundred miles south and then call the cops?

[00:19:01] Adam Cox: Like stealing the car is quite an odd choice. Yeah. Like that feels like a desperation.

[00:19:07] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And if they've lost their parents, then surely the car is still there. Right? It is Ella's car.

[00:19:11] Adam Cox: Yeah. If you're worried about their safety, you wouldn't run a hundred miles, would you?

[00:19:15] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly. So to me, the only way this makes sense is if they had something to do with their parents' disappearance.

[00:19:21] Adam Cox: So they've bumped them off.

[00:19:23] Kyle Risi: Do you reckon

[00:19:24] Adam Cox: I'm, I dunno what is going on?

[00:19:26] Kyle Risi: So like, like did they need to get away from the scene, is what I'm saying? That's what it feels like, right? Because otherwise you would just stay, you would call the cops in the genomic caves and then just wait there, rather than fleeing and then calling the cops.

So to me it feels like they've had something to do with this.

[00:19:39] Adam Cox: Yeah. Or are they still on the run and they need to get far away enough and then call for help because they feel like they're being followed?

[00:19:46] Kyle Risi: Possibly. Now, what was said on that call, Adam was never actually released, but it couldn't have been the full story because the first thing the cops do is visit the family farm, not dispatch officers to the genomic caves, which is odd, I think right next the story takes another eerie turn because after calling the police, Rihanna begins acting very strangely.

Ella thinks that they should both just go back to the farm, but Rihanna refuses and she starts growing, increasing more and more agitated in the end, their different urgencies, pull them in different directions. Ella decides that she's gonna continue travelling towards a farm. Meanwhile, Rihanna, she flees into the wilderness.

[00:20:26] Adam Cox: What? Why?

[00:20:27] Kyle Risi: It's weird, isn't it? It's so strange. And remember, she's in a place that she doesn't know and she's got no money, she's got no phone and she literally has no plan. And so in this moment, Ella seems to be the more rational of the two because at least she's trying to get back to the farm. But at the same time, she's letting her sister who has no resources and is clearly not okay, just walk out into the wilderness on her own.

[00:20:50] Adam Cox: But then the other sister's clearly not okay to let her sister walk out on her own.

[00:20:55] Kyle Risi: Exactly. So even ator mind in this moment is still very much up for question. Right? So what the hell is going on?

[00:21:01] Adam Cox: Okay, you need to gimme some answers.

[00:21:05] Kyle Risi: So what we do know is that after two days, maybe out of exhaustion or fear, Rihanna.

Eventually sneaks into the backseat of a stranger's pickup truck while it was parked at a service station. The vehicle actually belonged to a local resident called Keith Whitaker, who was filling up with fuel before heading to Canberra for an appointment. And so he just has this girl who has snuck into the back of his car.

It's terrifying. Like always check your backseat guys. Always. So

[00:21:29] Adam Cox: she's done that without him knowing. Mm-hmm. Because she needs to hitch a ride. Why can't she just ask for someone for like, oh, I need to get back to,

[00:21:36] Kyle Risi: well, that's the thing. I don't think she's in the right state of mind. Right. She doesn't ask.

I guess she could have asked, but what happens next as well, because as Keith is leaving the garage, he drives for several miles when something in the backseat catches his attention only to turn around to see two legs stretched out, lying in the backseat. Well, so if this girl has snuck into his car, she, she's not trying to hit her.

Right. I think she's just looking for just somewhere safe and calm. Do you know what I mean? It sounds like she's just too exhausted.

[00:22:03] Adam Cox: Yeah. It sounds like she's hiding, right?

[00:22:04] Kyle Risi: Yes, that's right. And so you have to imagine how terrifying this must be for Keith who's turned around and just seen these two legs just sitting in the backseat.

[00:22:11] Adam Cox: I don't know. Because if I seen like two hairy legs. Then I'd be very scared.

[00:22:17] Kyle Risi: Because you think it's like a Huntsman spider?

[00:22:20] Adam Cox: No, no. They're like, well, clearly that's a man. He could be here to kill me.

[00:22:22] Kyle Risi: All

[00:22:22] Adam Cox: right. Not to say that women aren't out to kill men or anyone.

[00:22:25] Kyle Risi: True.

[00:22:25] Adam Cox: But I'd be a bit like, well this guy, this person's got shaved legs.

[00:22:28] Kyle Risi: Yeah. It's like, Ooh,

[00:22:29] Adam Cox: what are the chances?

[00:22:30] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Anyone who shaves legs isn't a killer, but to him, he doesn't know this at this moment in time, right? Mm-hmm. He, as far as he's concerned, he's filled up with petrol. He's left the service station, and he is now heading towards his appointment, and so when he spots these legs in the back, he tries to stay as calm as he possibly can.

He continues driving until he reaches a rest stop, which is so weird to me. Like he's continuing to drive. When he eventually pulls over, he says that he just sat there for like 20 minutes just staring forward, and the whole time ran and didn't even move. Like, I want to know what he was waiting for, like was he waiting for her to just disappear for the issue to resolve itself?

[00:23:07] Adam Cox: Maybe he was trying to work out like they would've jumped out by now. Do you know what I mean? So maybe try work out how much of a threat this could be.

[00:23:15] Kyle Risi: Yeah. I dunno. I think, I mean,

[00:23:17] Adam Cox: I mean, I would get outta the car and be like, oh, you and my car get

[00:23:20] Kyle Risi: out. Yeah. He doesn't do that. So it's all very odd.

According to Keith, after about 20 minutes of just sitting there, Rihanna sits up and she just stares straight ahead and he describes her as simply catatonic. So either she is fucking exhausted or they have just killed Mark and Jacoba and she's just like, I've just killed my parents.

[00:23:40] Adam Cox: Well, and she's on a bit of a calm down.

[00:23:41] Kyle Risi: Do you think a calm down?

[00:23:43] Adam Cox: Well, I, I'm just trying to make like she's catatonic. She's just so tired from all the kidding.

[00:23:46] Kyle Risi: That's, yeah. That's what it feels like. Do you know what I mean? Keith does try to ask her whether or not she was all right, whether or not she was injured. She doesn't say anything at him.

He does try to offer her some water, but she just says no. All she does is just keeps staring straight ahead. And so finally Keith is like, I gotta call the cops.

[00:24:06] Adam Cox: Yeah. Because he can't keep driving out across state.

[00:24:09] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Gotta get her out of here. So it takes about an hour. The cops eventually arrive, the cops can't seem to get anything out of Rihanna, and so they decided to take Rihanna to Goldberg Police Station.

A detail I really enjoyed was later when Keith was asked why he decided to speak publicly about his involvement in the story is that he wanted to remind people to always check the backseat. Clearly. Clearly he was really freaked out by this.

[00:24:36] Adam Cox: Yeah. Do you know what? I don't check the backseat enough.

[00:24:39] Kyle Risi: No, exactly.

But then at the same time, like what good is that gonna do? You're gonna go check the backseat and there's gonna be like a killer. What are you gonna do? Run off? You'll be like, nah, you got me. Nah, I almost killed you. All right, I'll let you go. I, so what difference does that make because they just gotta jump out and run after you then?

[00:24:57] Adam Cox: Well, you know, it's less of a surprise maybe whilst driving,

[00:25:01] Kyle Risi: I'm gonna die. Lisa's not a surprise. So back at the police station, the cops, they tried to question Rihanna. She literally has no memory of the last few days. Adam, she even says she doesn't even remember her name. It takes her a few days before she remembers her name.

And so a decision is made to take Rihanna to Goldberg Hospital to receive psychiatric treatments. So she's clearly messed up On Tuesday, the 30th of August, while all of this is happening with Rihanna. And while the cops are still swarming the Trump family Farm, Ella arrives back home in the car that she and Rhiannon had stolen.

At this point, the cops are basically operating blind, right? They were trying to work out where the family had gone, why they had left, and essentially what had happened to them. And so with Ella, now back at the farm, it finally looked like they might be able to get some answers. But even though Ella tries her best, she can't explain anything.

Adam, she said that she could barely make sense of what had happened to her, let alone what happened to the rest of the family. Her memory of everything was so scattered and so vague that she just kept saying that. She was just really confused. All Ella could really tell the cops. That her parents believed something was wrong.

[00:26:09] Adam Cox: Something is wrong. That's so vague and broad, like, um, do you know what, I think I've forgotten the chicken at the supermarket. That's, you know, that's something wrong.

[00:26:18] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:26:19] Adam Cox: But what does that even mean

[00:26:20] Kyle Risi: exactly? So they were basically terrified that someone was maybe out to get them. Right. That kind of terrified.

[00:26:26] Adam Cox: Okay.

[00:26:26] Kyle Risi: And so somewhere in the middle of all this panic, she and Rihanna had left her parents at the Gen Nolan caves. But that was it. That is all she knew. That's all she could offer the cops.

[00:26:38] Adam Cox: So she, yeah, I could say, we're on the run. We think something's up, but then why would she leave her parents? Mm-hmm.

Surely it's not like safer to stick together. Yeah. What did she think? It wasn't safe to continue with them?

[00:26:48] Kyle Risi: Possibly. And so the next day, it's now Wednesday, the 31st of August, Mitchell now rides back at the farm. He had somehow managed to get to Sydney, where he then hopped onto a train to Melbourne and then got back to the farm with Ella.

Unable to concretely explain what had happened. They sort of hoped that Mitchell would be able to provide some answers. But just like Ella, he also didn't really understand what had happened technically. Like he knew less than Ella since he'd obviously left the group before the genomic caves. By this point though, based on what Ella told the cops, Victoria police were already communicating with New South Wales police in order to orchestrate a search of the caves and the surrounding areas.

But Adam, after hours of searching, neither Mark or Jacob Coba had been found or even seen by any of the tourists or people in the area.

[00:27:31] Adam Cox: So we think they're still in the caves

[00:27:34] Kyle Risi: where they're called into the caves by a strange light lured in and then plunged down like a, a deep cavern or something.

[00:27:41] Adam Cox: I mean, or they're just like hiding out.

I what? And so Mitchell, he has said to the police the same thing. We think someone's after us.

[00:27:50] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:27:50] Adam Cox: Does he say why he left the family?

[00:27:52] Kyle Risi: Not really. No.

[00:27:53] Adam Cox: Hmm. That's, it's so weird.

[00:27:56] Kyle Risi: Very odd, isn't

[00:27:56] Adam Cox: it? Have they eaten something bizarre?

[00:27:58] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's a possible theory

[00:28:00] Adam Cox: because it just feels like they're all lost their mind.

[00:28:02] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And so there's now serious concern for them because this was really rough terrain. It had thick forests, deep gorges, and so many of the places where someone could get lost or hurt, you know what I mean? But what the cops didn't know, Adam, was that Mark and Jacoba weren't actually at the caves anymore.

[00:28:17] Adam Cox: Where were they now?

[00:28:18] Kyle Risi: After separating from Ella and Rhiannon, they decided to drive Southwest to a place called Wangaratta.

[00:28:25] Adam Cox: Okay.

[00:28:26] Kyle Risi: Which by this point is around 270 miles from the actual caves themselves. So none of the routes that they seem to be taking now seem to make any sense. They're literally zigzagging all over the place.

Again, we don't know what happened in wra, but what we do know is that this time, for whatever reason. Mark and Jacoba now decided that they were gonna separate two.

[00:28:48] Adam Cox: So part of me thought like maybe they just wanted to ditch the kids and just go to like, on some spa weekend uhhuh. But no, now they're, they they've had enough each other, they've argued.

[00:28:57] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:57] Adam Cox: And now they're split up.

[00:28:58] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Now we don't know if her intention was to actually go back to the case to try and find the girls, but she does make it as far as the town of Yes. Which is 200 miles back in the direction that she came. And in light of the media coverage that was now surrounding the family, somebody came forward to say that they had seen a woman matching jacobi's description, and she had tried to kind of check into a hotel or a motel, but because she didn't have any money with her, they ended up turning her away.

[00:29:22] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:23] Kyle Risi: Following this on Thursday, the 1st of September, someone else spotted Jacoba, wandering the streets, appearing agitated and confused. They decided to call for an ambulance, which is the absolute right thing to do. And after their initial assessment, she was taken to Goldberg Hospital where she was admitted to receive treatment for psychological distress.

So something is definitely afflicting this family. Right.

[00:29:44] Adam Cox: I it's gotta be some kind of drug because I mean, it's a very powerful drug if it's lasting this many days. Yeah. But there has to be, for them to be in this kind of weird mentality.

[00:29:54] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:54] Adam Cox: And I'm, I'm guessing there's no evidence currently that anyone's after them

[00:29:57] Kyle Risi: Nothing

[00:29:58] Adam Cox: is weird.

[00:29:59] Kyle Risi: It is so strange. So at the hospital, a nurse apparently recognises that it was jacoba from the missing Trump family story that the cops obviously circulating on the news. But again, when Jacoba was questioned, just like Mitchell, Ella and Rihanna, she couldn't explain what had happened.

[00:30:14] Adam Cox: This is so weird.

[00:30:15] Kyle Risi: It's so odd, isn't it? All she could say was that her memory was fragmented and that she was separated from Mark because there was a moment where she had gotten confused and disorientated, and then before she knew it, mark was gone.

[00:30:26] Adam Cox: This is what I mean. Like, I don't think any of them, if there was serious danger, would she allow her.

Children to be just go off sort of thing. Yeah. And if she's scared, then she wouldn't wanna leave her husband.

[00:30:37] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:37] Adam Cox: So it just makes me think that something is overriding their brain.

[00:30:40] Kyle Risi: Yes, exactly. Something psychological.

[00:30:42] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:30:42] Kyle Risi: Because if you are in flight or fight mode, right? And you're running away, one thing you want to do is protect your family.

Exactly like you said. But it seems like there's a moment where they've gotten separated and they've allowed it to happen.

[00:30:54] Adam Cox: It's almost like, oh, that makes sense. Yeah. And they just carried on. It's like, no, it doesn't make sense.

[00:30:57] Kyle Risi: Yeah. It's so strange. As for Mark, maybe aimlessly looking for Jacoba. 'cause that's what you do, right?

Oh, I've, I've lost Adam. I know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna travel to the next town. No, you stay exactly where you are. Right. Which is exactly what Mark has done.

[00:31:11] Adam Cox: Well, maybe there's a nice beach in the next town.

[00:31:13] Kyle Risi: He'll find me if it's meant to be. He'll find me. Anyway, so he stays in the area. This is where things get even stranger, because on the evening that they get separated around 10:00 PM a young couple who are out playing Pokemon Go.

Do you remember that? This is 2016.

[00:31:32] Adam Cox: I mean, yeah, that, that takes me back.

[00:31:34] Kyle Risi: They apparently notice a silver Perge station waggon following very closely behind them. Right. Also looking for Pika juice. The couple basically say that Mark was so close behind him that they could barely see his headlights because he was so close, like it was almost bumper to bumper.

The driver amongst the couple decided to stop hoping that Mark would kind of just carry on past them. But apparently Mark just also stopped. He then got out the car and to them he appeared clearly agitated, but also really angry. And for a moment he just stood there in the middle of the road staring at them before he started running towards them.

Which is fucking terrifying.

[00:32:09] Adam Cox: Yeah. Like this guy's.

[00:32:10] Kyle Risi: Hey this is Outback Australia.

[00:32:12] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:32:12] Kyle Risi: I dunno. I dunno if that's the right thing to say. Outback Australia, but in Australia, 'cause like out in the rural areas, that's where you get the worst killers, right?

[00:32:20] Adam Cox: Yeah. So this guy has been tailgating you.

[00:32:22] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:32:22] Adam Cox: And then he is just, you know, you're stopped and now he's kind of potentially running after you.

[00:32:26] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Terrifying. They don't know who he is, right? They nor do they know that he's part of this missing family. Mm. It's dark. It's 10 o'clock at night. They said that aftermarket stops. He then turned on his heels and ran into the ware park just like leaving the car in the street. So he's just kind of been swallowed up by this park.

That's when the couple then decides to call the cops. Of course when they arrive, mark is long gone. They think that maybe he might still be in the park and so they send in a search party, but the sniffer dogs were unable to pick up on his scent and so he's gone. So it's odd, isn't it? Yeah, it's very odd.

While all this is going on, Jacoba and Rihanna who had both been brought to different hospitals, they're eventually transported to the same facility and they're reunited still under treatment, which must have been a massive sense of comfort to them, right? Like getting the help they need. The plan from here was to eventually reunite the family, but by this point the media coverage surrounding the story was so heavily invested in seeing that reunion through to the very end, even though Mark was still like kind of unaccounted for.

So just everyone's kinda like tuning in, like when they're gonna get back together, what went on? Are they gonna be okay? We still have answers. Just the whole country is really invested in what the fuck has just happened here.

[00:33:36] Adam Cox: Well, yeah, this has, family's gone, gone loopy.

[00:33:38] Kyle Risi: And so now that's where the focus landed with the police, appealing to the public to be on the lookout for Mark, right?

Because ideally they would like this all be like a happy ending to help with this. On Friday, the 2nd of September, Mitchell, who by comparison seems to be the one least affected by this whole ordeal. Like he's a least affected out of the lot of him. He agrees to appear on morning television to ask the public to help find Mark the host quizzes him about what he thinks might have happened.

And again, he doesn't really offer much because honestly, Adam, he doesn't really know. They then ask why he thought Mark might not want to be found, to which Mitchell said his dad was scared that people were after him. So again, we've got this kind of reoccurring theme. That's the only thing we know is that for some reason.

Mark and the rest of the family, or Mark and Jacoba at least felt like someone was after them.

[00:34:24] Adam Cox: But surely people when the family say this, are gonna respond Well, who? Who do you think is after you?

[00:34:30] Kyle Risi: Exactly. And so, like you were saying, mark is basically not in a good state of mind. So I think that answers that question, right?

Like is it someone imaginary? Probably, especially if he is saying he doesn't think he's in a good set of mind.

[00:34:44] Adam Cox: Right? Okay. So even his son recognises that actually this is psychological. And does he admit that he thinks it happened to him as well, or his sisters or his mom?

[00:34:54] Kyle Risi: I think there's definitely that feeling that it's afflicted them all.

So something has caused the psychosis.

[00:35:00] Adam Cox: Wow.

[00:35:01] Kyle Risi: But they don't know what it is.

[00:35:02] Adam Cox: I reckon they've all just dropped some acid.

[00:35:04] Kyle Risi: Do you reckon?

[00:35:04] Adam Cox: Just a Sunday afternoon having a picnic and they didn't realise how strong it was. One week late,

[00:35:10] Kyle Risi: guys have a bit of this team. Ooh,

[00:35:12] Adam Cox: yeah.

It's

[00:35:13] Kyle Risi: a mild, ah, totally mild. It's fine.

[00:35:14] Adam Cox: It'll be fine. It just, you know, a couple hours will wear off and, you know, we'll just get the munchies or something.

[00:35:18] Kyle Risi: One week later they're

[00:35:19] Adam Cox: like, and they're like, uh, dad's still missing.

[00:35:23] Kyle Risi: Uh, but you're right. Either way it's not clear if Mitchell is really implying whoever was offering them was either real or imaginary.

But I think based on him saying like he's not in a good set of mind is indicating that it is imaginary, Mitchell does continue to explain that he'd never really seen anything like this from his parents before. And that the whole ordeal was almost impossible to make sense of, even from his standpoint.

But somehow as a family, they'd all ended up fearing for their lives. Some clearly more than others, but none of them were left completely untouched by whatever had happened. That's clear. It's just that at some point they'd all agreed that they all needed to flee and that was the point. However, it does seem like the further they got away from the farm, the less urgent their feeling of danger became.

Which might explain why Mitchell separated first followed by Ella and then Rihanna. Like, once they put enough distance between themselves on the farm, they started to kind of snap out of it just enough to realise that they needed to go back to the farm. 'cause remember, Mitchell was the first to kind of leave, right?

[00:36:23] Adam Cox: Yes. But what's weird about that still is this, it's clearly not fully worn off though, because Mitchell wants to go separate ways, but he hasn't just snapped out of it and gone, guys, listen, we are overreacting. We need to just calm down. Mm-hmm. He's just gone. I need to go.

[00:36:38] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:36:38] Adam Cox: And then that's the same thing that's happened with the others.

They've either got disorientated, but it's, none of them are trying to like, talk the others around to go, come on. What are we thinking guys?

[00:36:46] Kyle Risi: It's really tricky to know because you are right. Like that's how it seems based on the information that we have. But at the same time, the family also wanna keep this very private.

So they, they also recognise that this is a family matter.

[00:36:57] Adam Cox: Exactly. Which is why they don't wanna admit it's a massive trip.

[00:37:00] Kyle Risi: Do you reckon, do you reckon they're just recreational drug use? Like,

[00:37:03] Adam Cox: do not tell anyone about this?

[00:37:06] Kyle Risi: Guys, that was crazy. I ended up kissing Ella last night, dad,

[00:37:12] Adam Cox: you know, that's, that's what's making me think, like, what else?

It's gotta be something, whether they've ingested it or something airborne, I don't know. But I feel like something's.

[00:37:21] Kyle Risi: It's wild. So following Mitchell's appearance on the TV show, there is another possible sighting of Mark because around 9:30 AM that same day, the owners of a motel in WTA reported that they think one of the rooms appears to have been broken into, according to them.

They found the door left a jar, but also the bed had been ruffled and someone had seemed to have used the bathroom. What made them sure though was a Mosley wrapper on the floor,

[00:37:46] Adam Cox: a mu

[00:37:46] Kyle Risi: wrap. Without that they were like, probably put it down to shoddy housekeeping.

[00:37:52] Adam Cox: Oh wait, does Mark, does he have like a thing for moly wrap, like, or food,

[00:37:56] Kyle Risi: but I, I guess like normally like there's, oh, the beds ruffled.

Well, that's how we have it. The toilet's been used. Yeah. We don't clean the toilet. We don't have budget for that.

[00:38:04] Adam Cox: We do that every three guests.

[00:38:06] Kyle Risi: But what I do wanna know is what they mean by someone's used the bathroom. Like do they mean like a few droplets in the shower or did Mark do a po and forget a flush?

Like I need to know what does that mean? That's, is Mark not a flusher?

[00:38:18] Adam Cox: That's what you're concerned about?

[00:38:19] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Either way, when the motel called this in, the cops are sure this must be connected to Mark. Of course, as this has all been reported, the media storm continues to grab public's attention. A lot of people start to suspect that the family must have some kind of history with mental health problems.

Like we've kind of alluded to that. I think our theory is kind of more on the drug side of things, but, but the more logical thing, if it wasn't drugs, then it must be psychological, right?

[00:38:43] Adam Cox: Yeah. I never thought of it like that. Only because it's all of them at the same time. Yeah. So that's where I was like,

[00:38:48] Kyle Risi: but they're a family as well, right?

So there could be a history of psychological problems in the family, mental health issues,

[00:38:53] Adam Cox: and then that's kind of like rubbing off or like they're buying into whatever one person's saying. I, I don't really understand how it could be that.

[00:39:01] Kyle Risi: Yeah. However, this is pushback against because on the 2nd of September, the age news publication publishes an article after interviewing a guy called Sergeant Knight.

Apparently he's very close to the family and he basically said like, the family does not have a history of mental health or any drug use. None like he vouchers for that, nor has any of them ever accessed a doctor or psychiatric treatments. The other angle of speculation revolves around the family being involved in some sort of cult.

That's the kind was a big thing at the time. But again, Sergeant and I attest to the fact that the family literally works seven days a week. They did not have time to get involved in a fucking cult. And so like, yeah, just all the time they had was just involved, like tending to the farm. But he does end the interview by saying that he was just as baffled as the rest of Australia.

So he doesn't know.

[00:39:51] Adam Cox: Yeah. Okay. Alright. So he is their character witness right now saying, you know, they're a normal family, hardworking, they wouldn't, they wouldn't have just done this.

[00:40:00] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And it's not like I can say he's lying because I don't think that like they have got psychological issues. I don't know.

I I, I, we just don't have enough information to know. Right, right now, so the following day on Saturday, the 3rd of September, 2016 at around 5:30 PM it's now almost been a week since the family initially fled, someone spots Mark walking alongside the road near the Wangaratta airport. It wasn't that they recognised Mark so much as the person that they saw was clearly in distress.

Mark was eventually taken to the Wagner Ratta police station where they assessed his mental health. They asked him a bunch of questions and then after around five hours of this, he's given the all clear. They let him go. They call his brother basically to come pick him up. Who turns up, I think he's like an ex-cop and he turns up to collect him.

But of course, by this point, every news agency had gathered outside that police station. 'cause they all wanted to see Mark leave. They all wanted to comment. They all wanted to know what the hell was going on because none of his family seems to know. Right? Maybe he did.

[00:40:59] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:40:59] Kyle Risi: And so Mark comes out, but instead of saying anything, he just walks past them and flips them in the middle finger.

[00:41:05] Adam Cox: What?

[00:41:06] Kyle Risi: No answers. Which I really like because this is a tiny, strange, very humid moment in the middle of an otherwise very bizarre series of events.

[00:41:14] Adam Cox: But okay, so he is just been questioned by police. Have they got any answers with what's going on for them just to release him? They've kind of gone, okay, well, your sound of mind.

Um, yeah. You know who you are, whatever. You can go back home. Do you want to go back home? Like what? Yeah. What kind of state is he in when he is being questioned?

[00:41:30] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I think maybe he's now snapping out of it again. Maybe it's the distance from the farm that's making him snap out of it. Who knows? And so, of course, from the media's perspective, this is swelled into a national mystery because now Mark's left.

He's given the middle finger and there's no answers. Mark is just like, get fucked. And so finally, all members of the Trump family are now safe and accounted for. They're all reunited with each other back on the farm. It's deeply unsatisfying for the media. Adam, who sort of wanted that final comment from Mark, right?

[00:41:59] Adam Cox: And me, I'm, I'm, I'm not happy either.

[00:42:01] Kyle Risi: I wanted it too. And so they're not prepared to go away, eventually to satisfy the media and in effect the public who've been very concerned for the wellbeing. Mitchell and Ella agree to sit down with the press, but still, Adam, they don't really have anything new to add.

They did, of course, thank everyone for the concern and everything that the cops and the hospitals have done for them. However, in contrast to the others, Mitchell does say he didn't feel like he was in danger when he decided to go along with the family. Not as much as the others did. So it's not that he wasn't affected, it's just it wasn't as much.

But he does say that he went with a family because they were his family. Right. And he also kind of wanted to see where they were gonna go. He wanted to know where they were going. But he still maintains that after processing the events in the last few days, he still didn't know what had happened.

[00:42:52] Adam Cox: So he went along with them not fully buying into what they were saying.

Mm-hmm. Or believing. But what did they say to him to make him go, all right then. Yeah, I'll, I'll tag along.

[00:43:01] Kyle Risi: I think it was purely concern. He was like, okay, you guys, I, I don't believe what you're saying, but I also don't want you to go off on your own and so I'm gonna come with you. But then he abandoned his family.

[00:43:13] Adam Cox: That's the, that's the thing that are going, do you know what I'm this, this, this

car

[00:43:18] Kyle Risi: is crowned. This is too much for me.

[00:43:19] Adam Cox: I need to get out. Stop

[00:43:20] Kyle Risi: boning. So it's very odd. But he still maintained that after processing the events of the last few days. He still didn't know what happened. Ella was still like, I have no idea.

I dunno why she was even in interview. She had nothing to add.

[00:43:32] Adam Cox: Would none of them have anything to add? No.

[00:43:34] Kyle Risi: She just says that she was still confused and she couldn't place a reason for any of it. Mitchell en the interview by saying that he could see why the public was so fascinated by the story, but now that everyone was safe, this was now a family matter and basically are suppressed to disrespect their privacy.

And so he's suggesting that there was something to all of this, some kind of pressure buildup, but he doesn't know what it is, or he's just not willing to kind of announce it publicly. Which makes me think maybe it was LSD

[00:44:04] Adam Cox: as, there's something that they don't wanna admit because Fair enough. Like they're still trying to figure out what happened if they don't know.

But I dunno, like if I was an interviewer and they're going on all these talk shows or whatever in the media

[00:44:16] Kyle Risi: mm-hmm.

[00:44:16] Adam Cox: I'd be like, what? Why are we even doing this segment? I'm not even getting anything from these people. Yeah.

[00:44:21] Kyle Risi: Yeah. I guess. 'cause it's still a weird story that people are fascinated by. They still wanna kind of.

Give us some airtime, right? They might get something, they might be us to piece things together themselves, and that's what the public were forced to do, right? But also even the lead investigator involved, he literally says that across his entire 30 year career, he has never seen anything that has come even close to how bizarre this incident was.

And the hysteria came out of it. And the fascination, there's some, like, there's a downside to the story as well, because Ellen and Rihanna, they were initially charged with stealing their car. 'cause of course they did commit a crime, right? Like they stole some Taurus car up in the genomic caves. They're like, oh my God, are the spirits are taking my car into the caves?

Like God knows what they must be thinking. However, in the context of everything that happened, I think those charges were kind of dropped. The owner was probably like, well, I don't wanna be that guy who presses charges on a couple of kids who the whole of Australia had become very concerned about, right?

[00:45:13] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:13] Kyle Risi: And so Adam, following this, the Trumps started slowly closing that door to the public. They remained adamant that this remain a private family matter. And so this year marks 10 years since they embarked on that infamous road trip that made them all very, very famous. So it's not surprising that some people did think that this might have been some kind of elaborate prank to kind of gain fame or infamy.

[00:45:36] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:36] Kyle Risi: But the family denied this. And honestly, I think that the way they reacted in the aftermath of this suggests that it wasn't all about fame because they were very much like, this is a private family matter. Please just leave us alone now. Right? They, they weren't looking to cash in on it in any way.

[00:45:50] Adam Cox: It doesn't seem like that. Yeah.

[00:45:51] Kyle Risi: It is still not fully clear what caused, and that's what it was, a moment of psychosis. Really, that's what it is. And so, as you can appreciate, in the absence of any solid answers, Australia and by extension, the world have speculated heavily on what might have happened. But before we get into those.

What are your thoughts? What do you think happened?

[00:46:12] Adam Cox: Well, I was gonna ask when the family members have been found

[00:46:16] Kyle Risi: mm-hmm.

[00:46:17] Adam Cox: Um, have they had any like blood or any tests done to try and work out what was maybe in their system?

[00:46:24] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:46:25] Adam Cox: And did anything come back from that?

[00:46:26] Kyle Risi: No.

[00:46:27] Adam Cox: Really?

[00:46:27] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:46:28] Adam Cox: Okay. Then, because I might have ideas, it reminded me of, um, we've never done the story, but it's kind of well known of the Dancing plague.

Was it in France? I can't remember what it was, but it was this village that basically all of a sudden just started dancing for days on days. Some died from exhaustion. And no one could explain why these people just suddenly had this reason to dance.

[00:46:52] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:53] Adam Cox: And what they speculate is, I can't remember if it was a mushroom or some kind of yeast, or happened something with some bread, but that's what made people just, you know, have this psychosis.

Mm-hmm. And start seeing or imagining and, and doing this kind of movement.

[00:47:05] Kyle Risi: I mean, it might be in that realm, but let's have a look at some of the theories. Right. Okay. 'cause there are several, some of them seem more plausible than others. A lot of them are sort of rooted in the shoot from the hip Reddit theories.

So we can take those with a pinch of salt, if you will. Mm-hmm. But one of the most common theories is that the Trumps has somehow been affected by chemicals that were used on the farm. Maybe something had contaminated like their water supply or their food supply. And as a result, a degree of psychosis had set in, now adjacent to this theory.

Is that it could also have been carbon monoxide poisoning.

[00:47:39] Adam Cox: Okay,

[00:47:40] Kyle Risi: so, so just like the contaminated water supply, this does seem plausible and both of these might explain why some of the family members started to fall out of the psychosis after they had left the farm.

[00:47:50] Adam Cox: That makes sense. But then the carbon monoxide, did they ever find any like leaks or anything like that on the farm?

[00:47:56] Kyle Risi: They found absolutely nothing. No carbon monoxide leaks and no contaminated water supply. The area was fine. None of the other neighbours were affected whatsoever.

[00:48:05] Adam Cox: Okay.

[00:48:06] Kyle Risi: So, yeah, that's a tricky one. It is not clear. But here's the interesting thing, right? First it was Mitchell who abandoned the family. Then it was Ella, and then Rhiannon, right?

They separated off.

[00:48:15] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:16] Kyle Risi: Whatever was causing the psychosis seems like was clearly leaving their system. We also know that one of the kids didn't live physically at the farm. Now it's not clear who, but if it was Mitchell, it would explain why he seems to be least affected by this because he wasn't consuming or exposed to whatever was causing this, this issue.

Right?

[00:48:35] Adam Cox: Sure.

[00:48:36] Kyle Risi: The theory, this theory isn't exclusive to Reddit speculation because like this idea of carbon monoxide poisoning or contaminated water supply was the initial theory posed by investigators. But like we said, when they checked the property, there was no evidence of a leak and the water supply came back clean.

The other theory floated was that the family were genuinely being targeted by someone. Very dangerous. Right? Some dangerous people. And as a result, they felt that they needed to flee. This theory is supported by the fact that when the cops first showed up, there was a bunch of their business documents cast all over the place.

Right? It was clear the family or someone was searching through those before fleeing. But again, as the investigation continued, there's no real evidence to suggest that the family were in any financial trouble whatsoever. In fact, their businesses were really, really profitable. Unless, of course those debts were some debts that the cops just didn't know about it.

So like it was some kind of dodgy debt from a gang or something. There's unlikely to be a paper trail from that. Right. So it is possible that it could have been some kind of dodgy dealing that was going on, right?

[00:49:37] Adam Cox: Yeah. And I'm guessing like the police would've, I dunno, investigated if someone had broken in or like, you know, looked at fingerprints perhaps if they generally thought someone had done that.

[00:49:47] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And also remember the family are now back home, right? A threat of someone after you doesn't go away just 'cause you're now back home. And so there's no indication that whoever was after them, it continues to go after them once they'd arrived back home.

[00:49:59] Adam Cox: That's true. Yeah.

[00:50:00] Kyle Risi: So overall, there's just no evidence to suggest that someone was actually after them.

Now the next theory. Is that the family were involved in some kind of cult, but honestly, again, I believe Sergeant Knight when he says that the family are just too busy to get involved in anything like that. So for me, I'm discounting that theory.

[00:50:16] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:16] Kyle Risi: And so with the more plausible theories, discounted the internet moved on to the more outlandish ones as you can imagine, which I guess is only natural.

So it won't surprise you to hear that people have proposed some sort of strange alien encounter.

[00:50:31] Adam Cox: I mean, we looked towards the stars when we can't explain what happened. Right,

[00:50:36] Kyle Risi: exactly. Honestly, Adam, none of these have been backed up with any substance. So yeah. I'm gonna move on from this one.

[00:50:43] Adam Cox: Yeah, okay.

[00:50:44] Kyle Risi: It is wise, right. However along a similar line of thinking is, and also depending on your beliefs, some have said that this was the result of some sort of a demonic possession centering around the farm. Something that may be afflicted mark as a starting point, and then over time started to take hold of the rest of the family.

And I could believe it only because we know demons love a road trip. Right.

[00:51:07] Adam Cox: But then you mentioned that they had this pool to go towards this cave.

[00:51:10] Kyle Risi: Yes.

[00:51:10] Adam Cox: And so are we talking about some kind of weird spirit ancestry that has played them? They've dug up something on the farm that, I don't know what it is,

[00:51:19] Kyle Risi: dug up something on the farm.

Yeah.

[00:51:20] Adam Cox: This feels, what is it? This feels very like Indiana Jones, whatever.

[00:51:23] Kyle Risi: Yes. Yeah. And I mean, this is where the geno caves come into this as well, right. Where the family being called there. Mm-hmm.

[00:51:29] Adam Cox: So I believe that more than the aliens.

[00:51:31] Kyle Risi: Yes. And remember, a lot of people do believe this, 'cause this is rooted in a lot of indigenous kind of folklore.

Mm-hmm. And so people take that very seriously. And so to them their theory was plausible. But Adam, I'm not gonna leave you high and dry with a set of speculative theories.

[00:51:46] Adam Cox: We actually no. Do we?

[00:51:47] Kyle Risi: Because there is one theory, uh, that many people think is the most plausible explanation for what has happened in the story, and this theory is actually rooted in psychological science.

[00:51:56] Adam Cox: Okay.

[00:51:57] Kyle Risi: One that people keep coming back Time and time again, psychologists think that the family may have been suffering from a disorder called folly, a duh. Okay. Which is the French term, which translates to the madness of two. It describes this phenomenon where under very, very, very specific circumstances, one person's delusions can be passed onto someone else usually as a result of intimate closeness or trust.

Those are kind of the two things that are vital in this very specific set of circumstances. That seems to be the constant, right? And it was first observed in a case of a married couple named Margaret and Michael, who both came to believe that people were entering the house, spreading dust and fluff all over the place, and then wearing down their shoes.

[00:52:41] Adam Cox: Okay. And how long did they believe that for then?

[00:52:45] Kyle Risi: A long time it was Michael who was first afflicted, but eventually Margaret started believing it too. So their shared delusion ended up consuming literally their entire lives. And it's this idea that these delusions can become contagious

[00:52:59] Adam Cox: and then what can bring them on?

Then

[00:53:01] Kyle Risi: it's typically this, obviously the psychosis of one person. Mm-hmm. And because you're connected to that person, uh, because you're very close or you're very intimate with them, it could be a family member, a husband or a wife, you trust them as well, that you can then start to be afflicted by that as well.

But isolation also seems to play a part in this. And so this term folly a dear. Infers a shared psychosis between two people because when it was first observed, it involved two people. And in most cases it is two people. Of course in the case of the Trumps, there's five of them. But what they all have in common is how close they were living in isolation most of the time and spending literally seven days a week with each other working on the farm.

And so the theory is that Mark was the first to be afflicted and in this environment his delusions ended up being passed on to the others. Again, it might explain why Mitchell wasn't as affected as the others if he was not the kid who was living on the farm. Right. So he's slightly more disconnected from them.

[00:53:58] Adam Cox: I see. Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:54:00] Kyle Risi: In some accounts though, I do have to say that it is suggest that it was actually Ella that wasn't living on the farm. So I mean it is up for debate.

[00:54:06] Adam Cox: Okay.

[00:54:07] Kyle Risi: So we can only speculate, but if it is true, then it might be because Mitchell was receiving external influence preventing any psychosis from taking hold of him.

Do you know what I mean? Because he's like, he can leave the farm at night and be like speaking to his mates and maybe tell 'em about it and they're be like, that's ridiculous.

[00:54:24] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:24] Kyle Risi: But when you're in this isolated pressure cooker, it's kind of easy for things to kind of start taking effects of you.

[00:54:30] Adam Cox: So this could be something that builds up over time.

Yes. It's not just all a sudden mark. 'cause it sounds like it's, it's Mark that's influenced the rest of his family. It's not just something that happens overnight.

[00:54:40] Kyle Risi: Correct. Yes. And like I said, this has been observed a few times. The most recent example that I could find was a story of Ursula and Sabina Erickson.

They were two Swedish twin sisters who in 2008 were visiting the UK while travelling on a coach. One of the sisters started acting very, very strangely and her behaviour seemed to have been transmitted over to her sister. It became so erratic that the driver had to pull over. And so after that their collective psychosis all of a sudden just escalated to a whole new level and they ended up Adam running into fast moving traffic on the M six.

[00:55:17] Adam Cox: Shit,

[00:55:18] Kyle Risi: most of this was caught on police footage and from people who had stopped to kind of like record in the road. So it's really disturbing. And in the footage you can see they're clearly frantic and scared. Anyway, in the midst of all the chaos, the cops were obviously trying to control the M six traffic to kind of protect the girls while other cops are trying to get them out the road.

Ursula tries to make her way to the opposite lane. With cars coming the other way, she jumps over the barrier. She's instantly hit by a fast moving car.

[00:55:42] Adam Cox: Damn

[00:55:43] Kyle Risi: Adam. Luckily she doesn't die, but she's critical. And so emergency services take them both to the hospital and while there, Sabina, the other twin sister, completely flips out.

She flees a hospital. She ends up stabbing a guy to death who's trying to help her. And so this whole thing resulted in Sabina eventually being convicted for manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. But psychologist put this down to F aur, where once this sister's delusions was passed onto another on account of how close they were, 'cause they were twin sisters, right?

[00:56:14] Adam Cox: So I get how the delusions can be passed on. Or to a point I guess, but what will, but what encourages or influences like that first person to get those delusions?

[00:56:26] Kyle Risi: It could be something psychological, actually. Psychological.

[00:56:28] Adam Cox: Okay. Yeah. So that's what happens to them first. And then that's kind of, I dunno, like pheromones, I dunno what it is, but something kind of rubs off on other people.

[00:56:35] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And this really surprised me 'cause there are several other cases of this, but interestingly, something I didn't pick up on before, the Gibbons twins from the Silent Twins episode are said to have suffered from the same disorder.

[00:56:48] Adam Cox: Oh yeah, that would make sense.

[00:56:49] Kyle Risi: Isn't that crazy? Now the exact cause of F dear obviously is not fully understood, but psychologists believe that it is rooted in stress and social isolation coupled with obviously close intimate proximity to another person.

Mm-hmm. And that's how it kind of gets passed on. And so when you apply this to the Trump's family, it fits. They were heavily isolated on accounts of living rurally. They also worked a tonne. So add stress into the mix along with. Little time spent with other people outside of the family. And so in the end, all of this just came to a head.

Like I said, it's assumed that Mark was essentially patient zero. And as someone who the others deeply dependent on who they trusted and loved deeply, his fears and delusions started to become their reality.

[00:57:34] Adam Cox: Mm. It's crazy how long it, this can go on for though. Yeah. It's not like, oh, it's just like a, an hour or two, whatever it is.

[00:57:42] Kyle Risi: Mm.

[00:57:42] Adam Cox: It's days and for people to come around and go, I'm not really sure what happened. Yeah. Like those twins that you just mentioned there, the Swedish twins, had they been put somewhere safe for like a few days, would it just wor off? Yeah. Would it have kept happening?

[00:57:55] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:56] Adam Cox: Has anything happened to the Trumps since then?

I guess they wouldn't come out and tell us that.

[00:58:00] Kyle Risi: Probably not. It doesn't seem like it is. I think they're okay now.

[00:58:03] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:04] Kyle Risi: But if Mark started to believe that someone was after him, after his money or his family, you can potentially see how you could start to be influenced by that. It doesn't seem to have been abusive or a horrible guy.

They seem to be really closely knit. And again, Mitchell may have been less affected because he may have been more disconnected from the family if he didn't live on the farm, or possibly he just didn't share the same psychological susceptibility as the others did. 'cause I guess you must have a degree of kind of psychological makeup for you to be susceptible to these types of things.

Right. Otherwise we'd see it way more often. I don't know.

[00:58:39] Adam Cox: Yeah. But then he was one that maybe come round quickest and so maybe it's just it wore off on him sooner,

[00:58:45] Kyle Risi: more off. Or maybe he was like least effects

[00:58:47] Adam Cox: in the first place.

[00:58:48] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And again, like I said, when asked why he went with his family, his reasoning was sound.

He was like, I love them. I was concerned about them and I wanted to see where they went. Like just in case they got themselves into trouble,

[00:58:59] Adam Cox: but the fact that he still like removed himself from that situation. Mm-hmm. That's the bit that makes me think No, you were affected.

[00:59:05] Kyle Risi: Yeah. It's not like he went to go call help

[00:59:07] Adam Cox: and the fact that you can't really explain it either.

Yeah. Or he's Or they're not telling us the whole truth.

[00:59:12] Kyle Risi: Yes, exactly. In 2017, Rihanna did briefly appear publicly to provide her thoughts because the press obviously never really got her side of things right. And she recognised that this was very nuts. So in terms of the situation saying like, we are all very, very embarrassed, she does confirm that Mark did appear to have been suffering from a mental breakdown, and at it seemed to be in building for a long, long time.

Oh, okay. And, and as he became more and more paranoid and felt like the family were in danger, mark ended up becoming transfixed in this idea of spending more and more quality time with the family, possibly because he was feeling more and more vulnerable, possibly because he felt like this way he could protect his family way better if he kind of just took a little bit of time away from the farm.

[00:59:56] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:56] Kyle Risi: And so as a result of this, Rihanna said that she started picking up on that same anxiety and she started feeling it too. And she believed that the buildup of stress ended up causing this incident. Things reached a pinnacle when Mark proposed that they all take a trip, like I'm talking, leave the country, like travel somewhere by plane.

This explains why the family's passports were ready to go. But while they were getting ready to leave, mark must have experienced like a proper psychotic break. And as a result he convinced the family to just flee in Ella's car.

[01:00:24] Adam Cox: We just need to go kind of thing.

[01:00:25] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And they left just everything behind, hence why everything was just organised on the table.

[01:00:29] Adam Cox: Wow. And they what their finance records, maybe he was trying to work out how much money they had or something like that. Yeah. In this frantic state. Or maybe he's trying to hide something if he's kind of got this psychosis. Well,

[01:00:38] Kyle Risi: remember you still had that idea that someone was after them.

[01:00:41] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[01:00:41] Kyle Risi: And it could have been business related.

Do you know what I mean?

[01:00:44] Adam Cox: God, yeah. The, the, the more that you kind of read into this, it does sound like, yeah, this f but I've never heard of it before. Yeah. But the fact that it's happened to multiple people.

[01:00:54] Kyle Risi: Mm-hmm. And I'm wondering like, to a degree, whether or not the dance plague might have something to do with it as well.

Could that go a degree of answering some of those questions? Small, rural, provincial town in, in France somewhere. Yeah. People quite closely connected. But then when you look at the selling witch trials as well, I mean, I, I, I don't know. I dunno if it is that, I think that's more of a hysteria. I think it's in the same bracket, but it's more of a, an an hysteria that I kind

[01:01:17] Adam Cox: of, it's kind of fear I feel like.

Yeah. It just rubs off. I dunno if it's this

[01:01:21] Kyle Risi: same thing. Yeah. I think this is slightly different.

[01:01:24] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:24] Kyle Risi: And so as a story, and so as a story, it is very odd, but they are all but Adam, they're all so lucky that they were all okay in the end.

[01:01:33] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:33] Kyle Risi: And like finally reconciled back together. 'cause like, it could have easily gone very badly for them.

[01:01:38] Adam Cox: Forget exactly like the, the Swedish sisters, like you said, ended up killing someone.

[01:01:42] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Since then, they've all gotten the treatment they needed. And from the looks of it, their lives did actually return back to normal. But this still does remain one of Australia's strangest modern day mysteries. A story that actually shows us how fragile the human psyche actually is.

[01:01:57] Adam Cox: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:57] Kyle Risi: The scary thing is, is that under the right circumstances, psychosis can literally be contagious. Which in a way, Adam is way scarier than the more plausible needer explanation of like carbon monoxide poisoning. Do you know what I mean?

[01:02:10] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[01:02:10] Kyle Risi: What would you rather, I'd rather the threat of carbon monoxide poisoning.

Get a carbon monoxide alarm than knowing that at any moment Adam's delusions about, like,

[01:02:20] Adam Cox: about what kind,

[01:02:21] Kyle Risi: about about his incredible cooking could infect me and I'll start believing it. It's the sort of idea that fear can start in one mind and spread to the people you love the most. Which terrifies me about you and Adam.

All there's left to say now is that is the story of the Trump family mystery.

[01:02:42] Adam Cox: Wow. So every time you say Trump's, I always think of Tromps,

[01:02:46] Kyle Risi: the Smurfs,

[01:02:47] Adam Cox: the Smurfs, German Smurfs.

[01:02:48] Kyle Risi: Uh, no. Is it German? I think it's Belgium.

[01:02:51] Adam Cox: Oh, Belgian. Smurfs. Sorry. Um, yeah, that is a really strange story. Like while the family, okay, fair enough.

They just wanna go back to their normal lives. But have they learn? Do you know what? Let's just, you know, go out. Let's see. Other people maybe.

[01:03:05] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[01:03:06] Adam Cox: Or like at Christmas dinner, they all do. They kind of reflect again. Do you remember that time we took a trip? We don't talk about the trip.

[01:03:13] Kyle Risi: Or it could be actually something more sensitive.

Could have been drugs.

[01:03:16] Adam Cox: Yeah. Mom just baked a really bad batch of brownies.

[01:03:19] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Families who take drugs together stayed together or Yeah. Could have been bad brownies.

[01:03:26] Adam Cox: Um,

[01:03:26] Kyle Risi: but it's such a wild story and when I read the story, when I first started researching it, I was like, before I knew what the explanation could be, I was like, what the hell is happening here?

This is weird. It has to be aliens. And when you're going through, you're thinking something supernatural is going on here.

[01:03:40] Adam Cox: Yeah. I, that's the thing. It's a thing that you can't see or easily explain and that's what's so odd about it.

[01:03:47] Kyle Risi: And And scary.

[01:03:48] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[01:03:49] Kyle Risi: As well. Bizarre. Bizarre, bizarre. But I really enjoyed doing this story.

It was good fun.

[01:03:53] Adam Cox: Yeah. Very good. Well done Australia. Another good story.

[01:03:56] Kyle Risi: I know another one, we do have a Australian story coming up again in another couple weeks. Which Australians have the best stories man. What's that about?

[01:04:06] Adam Cox: Hey, uh, maybe you haven't looked across the rest of the world. I'm sure there's some very good stories.

[01:04:10] Kyle Risi: We always stick to the American stories, which I mean, they're always scary.

[01:04:13] Adam Cox: They're scandal lot.

[01:04:14] Kyle Risi: Scandal lot. But I dunno, there's just something about an Australian mystery where, I don't know, just, there's just something about it where it's just bonkers. I don't know. I think summon man, Aaron Peterson,

[01:04:26] Adam Cox: the whole world's got a weird story to tell.

[01:04:28] Kyle Risi: Yeah, yeah. But I don't know. Again, Australians, thanks. Thanks for all the good times. And guys, that brings us to the end of another fascinating foray into the compendium and assembly of fascinating things. We hope you enjoyed the ride as much as we did,

[01:04:41] Adam Cox: and if today's episode has sparked your curiosity, then please do us a favour and follow us on your favourite podcast app.

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[01:05:10] Kyle Risi: We drop new episodes every Tuesday. And so then remember, sometimes the thing you are running from is the demons in your head. We'll see you next time.

[01:05:18] Adam Cox: See you.