Inside Scientology: The Vanishing of Shelly Miscavige

[00:00:01] Adam Cox: one of the messengers once asked Hubbard why he specifically chose young girls for the role, and his answer was he got the idea from Hitler. What?

[00:00:10] Kyle Risi: I hope you didn't repeat that, on any documents, anyway.

[00:00:13] Adam Cox: The reason he did this is he thought that girls were easier to manipulate, or were more compliant than perhaps

[00:00:19] Kyle Risi: men.

[00:00:19] Kyle Risi: Ooh. Bit of misogyny there, isn't it??

[00:00:48] Adam Cox: Welcome to the Compendium, an assembly of fascinating and intriguing things. We're a weekly variety podcast that gives you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering. We [00:01:00] explore stories from the realms of history, true crime, and extraordinary people. I am your ringmaster for this episode, Adam Cox.

[00:01:07] Kyle Risi: And I'm your great autonomal wonder for this week. Autonomal wonder?

[00:01:12] Adam Cox: What, what is

[00:01:12] Kyle Risi: that? Yeah, someone who's able to show very impressive control over their body. Like, like, we just spent a whole week in the south of France. And the whole time I managed to sustain my stomach sucked in.

[00:01:24] Adam Cox: Throughout the whole time you were sucking your stomach in?

[00:01:25] Adam Cox: The whole

[00:01:25] Kyle Risi: time. In fact, at one point I was really worried for my health. But no one even knew. I don't believe that. Yeah, it's on one day. That's me. I can do other things, but that's probably for a late night session of the Compendium Podcast. Okay.

[00:01:42] Adam Cox: I don't know what to say to that.

[00:01:43] Kyle Risi: Well, let's just say it involves Cocoa Pops and my foreskin.

[00:01:49] Kyle Risi: I'm joking. I'm joking. I feel like the list is no way too much about my penis and other things. Far too much. . Maybe

[00:01:57] Adam Cox: I mean you do offer this up the things that we've had [00:02:00] to cut out of the show because they're just not appropriate I know

[00:02:02] Kyle Risi: I know I can't help it. It's just anyway, welcome Adam.

[00:02:06] Kyle Risi: Yeah, and welcome back from your holiday Thank you week away, you know south of France for France some friends and some booze

[00:02:11] Adam Cox: Yeah, where we discovered the amazing app called Donna I don't know if anyone else has, um, or our listeners have heard of this yet, where you can create songs with lyrics and, uh, any descriptions and make up a whole song about your friends using AI.

[00:02:26] Kyle Risi: it is so scary that this is where this is going. And actually, if you are like starting out in music, this is a brilliant way just like to get something out there, get a sound, get a tone, get a vibe. And, uh, And then just polish up the lyrics from there because it's incredible. It'd been able to come up with some really funny lyrics.

[00:02:43] Kyle Risi: I am sad that the one song that you created I shared a story about my very first time with a young lady and how traumatizing it was for me, but it was of course a bit awkward for her, but you wrote a song and the song turned well her, into [00:03:00] the victim! I was the victim here! Not Nikki

[00:03:04] Adam Cox: bleep.

[00:03:05] Kyle Risi: Just to protect any names. But yeah, I was gutted.

[00:03:08] Adam Cox: I mean, it was hilarious though. Oh, . It was the best way to roast your friends, if you can, using song.

[00:03:14] Kyle Risi: Using song. So go download it, it's worth it. Donna, was it? Donna, yes. Is it just available on iOS? Oh, you've got Android, so it must be on iOS.

[00:03:20] Kyle Risi: I think it's on

[00:03:20] Adam Cox: both, yeah. Anyway, sidetracked. So, today's episode of the Compendium, Kyle, we're gonna be exploring the disappearance that isn't exactly a mystery in the traditional sense. In fact, this missing person we're discussing isn't missing at all, at least not officially. Okay. The police say she's fine, Scientology says she's fine, yet she hasn't been seen in public since 2007, and whispers of corruption, hidden vaults, and secret compounds shroud her whereabouts.

[00:03:48] Adam Cox: So,

[00:03:48] Kyle Risi: Are we talking about The Disappearance of Shelley Miscavige?

[00:03:53] Adam Cox: Yes, using quotes there, The Disappearance. The

[00:03:55] Kyle Risi: Disappear Do you know what? We have several listeners that are going to be [00:04:00] absolutely buzzing that this episode is coming out. So, because we did what the Scientology episode, which is kind of like just an introduction into their beliefs and stuff.

[00:04:07] Adam Cox: Yeah, about a year ago, and one of our listeners, Lucy, had followed up and said, like, where's the second episode because you were like, I'm going to do a follow up. She was

[00:04:15] Kyle Risi: like a dog with a bone, man.

[00:04:16] Adam Cox: She would not let that go. And a year later, You've left it to me to pick up your work.

[00:04:22] Kyle Risi: I think you were really willing to, to do this for me.

[00:04:26] Kyle Risi: Like, I think you were really engrossed by this whole Scientology episode. So it was, it was a good one. I'm happy to give this one over to you. But yeah, Shelley Miscavige, hang on a minute. So you're saying that it's not a mystery that she's disappeared?

[00:04:38] Adam Cox: Well, is it? Is it a mystery? Yes, it's

[00:04:40] Kyle Risi: a mystery! It's a mystery!

[00:04:42] Kyle Risi: Uh, the last I heard was that, uh, Tom Cruise was the last person to have seen her alive. Mm hmm. So, are you saying there's no substance in that?

[00:04:47] Adam Cox: Well, not quite true he was there at her last public appearance . Mm hmm. But it doesn't mean to say that. He was the last person to see her

[00:04:55] Kyle Risi: alive. He didn't kidnap her and stuff her in her

[00:04:57] Adam Cox: trunk.

[00:04:57] Adam Cox: No. Not that we know of. No. But [00:05:00] maybe. Um, so yeah, your episode gave a really great overview of Scientology. How it all began with L. Ron Hubbard, the myth secrets, the alien connections. So, , it's worth listening to that episode if you want to kind of learn more about that sort of side. But this particular episode, we'll do a bit of a brief recap, but it's all about David and Shelley Miscavige, the power couple at the top of Scientology.

[00:05:20] Kyle Risi: Great.

[00:05:21] Adam Cox: We'll dive into how David took control of the church after L. Ron Hubbard, with Shelley by his side, and for years they led together, but things took a dark turn. David became increasingly erratic and abusive. And paranoid, as all cult leaders do, I bet. Of course, yes. And Shelley dropped hints that she feared him, and then in 2005, Shelley suddenly disappeared, and aside from a brief appearance in 2007, she hasn't been seen since, leaving many to ask, leaving many to ask, what happened to Shelley Miscavige?

[00:05:51] Adam Cox: Oh

[00:05:51] Kyle Risi: my god, I'm so living for this. I love the whole kind of Scientology thing. Go and listen to our previous episode because it's just

[00:05:59] Adam Cox: [00:06:00] mental it is yeah No, it's definitely worth a listen. But then once you've done that come back to this episode.

[00:06:04] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:06:05] Kyle Risi: No, well, maybe listen to this one first Unless what you want to do is uh, go listen to the other one then come back to this then we get double downloads

[00:06:12] Adam Cox: Yeah, do that.

[00:06:13] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:06:13] Adam Cox: Okay. So before we get into today's story, I think it's time for

[00:06:17] Kyle Risi: All the Latest Things!

[00:06:22] Kyle Risi: This is the segment of our show where we catch up on all the things we've discovered over the last seven days, from weird news to mind boggling facts.

[00:06:30] Kyle Risi: This is All the Latest Things. So Adam,

[00:06:34] Kyle Risi: did you know that in Japan, quitting your job can be so daunting that people hire whole agencies just to help them do it?

[00:06:45] Adam Cox: What? No. I mean, they hire an agency to quit?

[00:06:49] Kyle Risi: Yeah, it's like a reverse recruitment agency where they help you quit.

[00:06:53] Adam Cox: That can't be a job.

[00:06:55] Kyle Risi: It is a job. I mean, it wouldn't need to be a job in the West, especially for you, because you're great at quitting.

[00:06:59] Kyle Risi: I'm [00:07:00] so good at quitting. I'm even thinking about quitting right now. So this week I found out that in Japan, resigning from your job isn't like it is in the West, where you're simply just handing your two weeks notice. It's actually something that comes with an extreme amount of pressure that is often intensely emotional and Which is often an intensely emotionally charged process.

[00:07:16] Kyle Risi: And this is because in Japan, loyalty and commitment to a company that you work for are culturally seen as like paramount. Now, typically it's not like unusual for employees to stay with the company that they joined since graduating for their entire life. life. So it's like a life commitment. So if you ever decide to leave, it's kind of seen as this major kind of betrayal of trust, which I just think is just weird having that sense of loyalty to a company that's paying you and clearly taking advantage of the fact that you are doing labor for them.

[00:07:51] Kyle Risi: Like it's not like they are cooking you meals and they're taking you for walks and they're caring for you and comforting you when you're ill. It's just [00:08:00] somewhere that you work. So it's really bizarre to me to think. That that's how it works in Japan.

[00:08:05] Kyle Risi: . So of course, if you decide to leave your place of work, it's thought that it really disrupts the harmony of the workplace and not just for the employer, but of course, also for the colleagues that you're leaving behind.

[00:08:15] Kyle Risi: So jobs are often seen as kind of these tight knit communities. So when a person decides to leave, it's believed that it's going to negatively impact everyone. And so, because of this, if you ever do dare to hand in your notice, the entire management team mobilizes to intensely question and even badger you to understand why you've decided to leave.

[00:08:34] Kyle Risi: Which is great, I guess, if you are unhappy because of course they want to put it right, right? But if you're genuinely leaving because you've landed your dream job or because you need more money, This can be really challenging, and if someone who doesn't like confrontation, like you, I imagine like, I'm staying, I'll stay, I'm sorry.

[00:08:55] Kyle Risi: Hey.

[00:08:56] Adam Cox: Um,

[00:08:57] Kyle Risi: Hey.

[00:08:57] Adam Cox: Um, so What do the, um, so so what do the companies do to try and keep them then?

[00:08:59] Kyle Risi: Well, the [00:09:00] thing is though, they will obviously try to get to the crux of it, but typically this process, you have to, but typically during this process you are expected to attend multiple meetings with various executives around the organisation and you're expected to provide a comprehensive reason as to why you want to leave.

[00:09:12] Kyle Risi: And very often they'll even pull out the big guns and try to lay on a little bit of guilt there, to kind of telling you that, you know what, by you leaving, you're, you're letting Karen from Finance down. I'm like, I don't give a fuck about Karen.

[00:09:24] Adam Cox: Who's Karen? I know, she's a bitch. She won't pay my expenses.

[00:09:28] Kyle Risi: And employers have even been known to kind of push employees to kind of find out exactly where they're going, even asking around. And sometimes they'll even use that information to try and sabotage your next job.

[00:09:38] Kyle Risi: So it can be pretty ruthless. . But the thing is that once all the interrogation is done and they accept your resignation, you are then expected to write a formal letter of apology to management and your colleagues. And this chick on TikTok, she was the American teacher who was leaving to move to another city, was expected to read out that same letter to all the faculty during an assembly [00:10:00] and then she had to give a speech where she's expected to express her gratitude to her co workers and thank them for the opportunity that she's been given, even though Sharon from finance has made your life a living hell.

[00:10:14] Kyle Risi: That's so weird. It's bizarre. You have to give a formal apology. Yeah. And because of course this can be such an arduous process to go through, it's kind of given wise to some people just turn to professional resignation services who will handle the entire resignation process for you on your behalf.

[00:10:30] Kyle Risi: They'll handle all the communications between you and obviously your employer, and they'll prep all the necessary documents, even help you write your apology letter, everything. Basically, like I said, it's done. It's a reverse recruitment agency.

[00:10:41] Adam Cox: I feel like I need to start this. I should be helping people in the UK quit their jobs.

[00:10:46] Adam Cox: Because

[00:10:46] Kyle Risi: what you do well, right? No, I'm joking. You don't quit. I'm joking. You're not an easy, I'm joking. You're not a quitter.

[00:10:49] Kyle Risi: but if you did go into business doing this, you can expect to earn like 200. per person that resigns depending on and maybe you can kind of do it on a on a salary grade So if like they're earning a [00:11:00] hundred thousand dollars a year you can like it can be a margin of that

[00:11:03] Adam Cox: like a recruiter then

[00:11:04] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly Like I said a reverse recruitment agency and because there's obviously been such a rise in popularity for these services There's now over a hundred of these companies in japan that specialize in doing just this which I just think it's just mind blowing Maybe we should do this.

[00:11:19] Kyle Risi: But to be fair, it's not that difficult to do that in the UK, right? You just sometimes just write, I quit on a napkin. And then you just never see them again.

[00:11:27] Adam Cox: Yeah, they've already like packed up your belongings and you're gone.

[00:11:29] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly. What they're going to do, not give you a reference.

[00:11:31] Kyle Risi: What happens if

[00:11:31] Adam Cox: they don't want to keep someone? Do they have to still go through the whole Oh, that's insulting then, right? Like, vigmarole. Vigmarole? Is that the right? Rigmarole. Rigmarole. Um, of like going, oh, come on, you need to do a letter. Or are they just like, no, it's fine. Steve, honestly, you can go.

[00:11:43] Adam Cox: But like, no, I'll do the letter. But I want to read my letter! Steve, Just get out your shit.

[00:11:49] Kyle Risi: How awful. So basically, next time you want to quit your job, just be grateful that you are not expected to thank Sharon from Finance for eating your damn sandwich. What's this? Karen? [00:12:00] Sharon? Karen, Sharon, all of them.

[00:12:02] Kyle Risi: They're all from Finance. They keep eating my damn sandwich in my fridge. Okay. They ate the only good thing in my life. So yeah, that's my all the latest things for this week. What have you got for us?

[00:12:12] Adam Cox: So, what I've got is So what I've got is um, do you remember Liz Truss, our Prime Minister, that lasted a grand total of 49 days in power?

[00:12:21] Adam Cox: Was it that little? Yeah. So she got into power, she shook Queen Elizabeth's hand, because they always have that kind of ceremony whenever a Prime Minister comes into power.

[00:12:31] Kyle Risi: And when it's two females, I always just feel like it's a standoff.

[00:12:35] Adam Cox: Well the thing is, like, that was the last time I think Queen Elizabeth was seen alive, because a few days later she was dead.

[00:12:39] Adam Cox: Anyway, so there was like this whole like, oh, Liz got into power and then Queen was like, nah, that's it. I'm out. Um, but then the other thing that surrounded Liz Truss's kind of tenure as a prime minister was the fact that someone had bought a lettuce And I think the Daily Mail did a live stream of whether the Lettuce would [00:13:00] survive longer than Liz Truss in power.

[00:13:03] Adam Cox: Do you remember that? They stuck a blonde wig on the Lettuce and

[00:13:06] Kyle Risi: everything. A blonde wig! Yes, I remember. I don't remember the wig, but that's a great detail.

[00:13:10] Adam Cox: Because what happened was I think she had done like a new, um, what do they call it? A budget. A mini budget. And it basically crashed the economy and a few other things that affected people's pensions.

[00:13:19] Adam Cox: She had to fire the, uh, Chancellor, I think it was, after that, because he's Made him take the blame. Yeah. And anyway, and so they came up with this lettuce, and then like, oh, is Lystra's gonna last much longer than this in power, because she's done such a terrible job, so she resigned , and the lettuce outlasted.

[00:13:35] Adam Cox: Liz Truss. Really? As a result, what someone has done, um, you know, the blue plaques that are mounted across the UK, usually it's like a heritage site. Yeah, yeah. Like, here

[00:13:43] Kyle Risi: lived Isaac Newton.

[00:13:44] Adam Cox: Yeah, or William Shakespeare was born in this house.

[00:13:47] Adam Cox: Someone's put a commemorative plaque on the Tesco, where that Tesco is where that lettuce was bought. Okay, interesting. And it says a lettuce purchased here in September 2022 lasted longer than Prime Minister [00:14:00] Liz Truss, 49 days. That's so rude. So that's on this Tesco in Walthamstow. And I think that's hilarious.

[00:14:06] Adam Cox: I think it's brilliant. That's what the British do well, this kind of irony and taking the piss. Absolutely.

[00:14:12] Kyle Risi: But the thing is, though, Liz Truss, everywhere she goes, like just things fall apart, because she Now works for Microsoft and you'll remember maybe about five six weeks ago Microsoft had one of its biggest outages ever.

[00:14:27] Kyle Risi: Oh, yes, and that was Liz Truss's first day.

[00:14:29] Adam Cox: No It wasn't, was it?

[00:14:30] Kyle Risi: That's

[00:14:35] Adam Cox: amazing. It's like she just turned up And she probably just, like, pulled out, like, her chair, whatever, and pulled out a plug or something. And then it all comes crashing down.

[00:14:43] Kyle Risi: Oh, poor Liz Truss. Like, imagine having that as a legacy, hey?

[00:14:47] Kyle Risi: And the thing is, though, it doesn't do much for women in power. I'm so up for more women being in big positions of power. But, like,

[00:14:56] Adam Cox: Liz Truss, come on. Yeah, I feel like she has just got this [00:15:00] bad luck. She must have broke a mirror or something.

[00:15:01] Kyle Risi: It's not a case that she was just It's not a case of misogyny.

[00:15:04] Kyle Risi: Mm-Hmm. because she really was terrible. She wasn't used as a scapegoat. She just really wasn't ter she really was bad . So yeah.

[00:15:10] Adam Cox: um, 'cause she was a prime minister in Norfolk, I think it was Prime Minister. No, sorry. You mean the mp? An mp, sorry, yeah. In Norfolk. And uh, I think I went to some fate that was in, oh, I can't remember where it was now.

[00:15:21] Adam Cox: Are you saying you met Liz Truss? Well, I was a kid, or young at the time, I didn't know who it was. Um, there was a sack race, and she took part in the sack race, and I think she fell over. And apparently I took a photo of her falling over. My mum was like, you remember you've got that photo? And I was like, I could sell this to the Daily Mail.

[00:15:37] Kyle Risi: You fucking could! Have you missed your opportunity?

[00:15:39] Adam Cox: I can't find that photo.

[00:15:41] Kyle Risi: Yeah,

[00:15:42] Adam Cox: neither way, that's a little bit harsh, isn't it? I don't want to play into it, but I will laugh at the lettuce joke. Well done. Alright, shall we get on with the show?

[00:15:49] Kyle Risi: Yeah, Shelly Miscavige, where the hell is she? She's in Tesco.

[00:15:55] Adam Cox: So first things first, a quick recap on Scientology, and the key things [00:16:00] we'll just refresh on which are important to today. Which are important to today's story, how it started, how you progress through the church with OT levels and auditing, the naval division of Scientology called the Sea Org, and some of the rules and weird ideologies which govern Scientology.

[00:16:14] Adam Cox: So, Scientology was founded by a guy called L. Ron Hubbard prior to Scientology. So Scientology was founded by a guy called L. Ron Hubbard, and prior to Scientology he, uh, was a science fiction writer, but in 1950 he published a different type of book called Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health.

[00:16:27] Adam Cox: And what he proposed was that the human mind stores painful experiences called engrams, which cause mental and physical health issues, which essentially hold you back from realizing your full potential. And these engrams are believed to originate from painful incidents, which closed down your analytical function, leaving a person to basically react, uh, or be reactive.

[00:16:48] Kyle Risi: Yes. Well done. Yeah, I remember all of that. Yeah.

[00:16:51] Adam Cox: Good. You did the story. It's a long time ago. So Hubbard claimed that his methods and teachings, which essentially is a hybrid of confessions, [00:17:00] counselling and psychotherapy, could erase these engrams, leading to a state of mental clarity and higher potential.

[00:17:06] Kyle Risi: Hence why we go through Auditing.

[00:17:08] Adam Cox: Yes. Um, and this higher potential is sort of spiritual, um, but he sort of set this concept apart, um, from other ideas of spirits, and he introduced this term called thetans. Mm hmm. Uh, this bit gets a little bit tricky, but the key distinction is that a person doesn't have a thetan, they are a thetan.

[00:17:26] Kyle Risi: But aren't they also billions and billions of thetans?

[00:17:29] Adam Cox: There's loads from your previous lives that somehow they've like I don't know, latched on to you. Yeah,

[00:17:34] Kyle Risi: they're,

[00:17:34] Adam Cox: they're in your skin. They are your skin. Yeah. And you have to kind of recount these painful memories. And as you do that, you're saying goodbye to these billions of lives that you've had.

[00:17:42] Kyle Risi: Yes.

[00:17:43] Adam Cox: Makes sense.

[00:17:45] Kyle Risi: It does make sense. It's absolutely batshit crazy. Uh

[00:17:48] Adam Cox: huh.

[00:17:49] Kyle Risi: But somehow it makes sense to me.

[00:17:51] Adam Cox: Yeah. So these are more, So yeah, these are mortal spiritual beings.

[00:17:53] Kyle Risi: What I imagine the thetans to be, do you remember that comic that you, you can cut this bit out, but remember that little comic that you showed me of all the butts bending over?

[00:17:59] Kyle Risi: [00:18:00] Yeah. And there's billions of them, and when you zoom out they're all just kind of there. Yeah. To me that, that's thetans. These little naked bending over butts. Yeah, all over your skin. All over your skin.

[00:18:11] Adam Cox: Um, so yeah, Hubbard claimed that people are immortal spiritual beings and these thetans have lived countless past lives and will continue to do so. so.

[00:18:20] Adam Cox: And what's more, a thetan can supposedly leave the physical body while retaining full awareness, experiencing life both inside and outside the body.

[00:18:27] Kyle Risi: Except you as the person who thetans has no memory of these.

[00:18:33] Adam Cox: No, not really. No.

[00:18:34] Adam Cox: But, um, here's where it gets even more confusing.

[00:18:36] Adam Cox: To reach their full spiritual potential, people must achieve a state known as clear. And this is a huge concept in Scientology, as a clear individual is no longer weighed down by their reactive mind. They operate with their analytical mind. And the reactive mind is said to store all these negative and traumatic experiences, which are linked to engrams.

[00:18:55] Adam Cox: Um, and so, once you become clear, you can then, I guess, process things differently, and like, be better than other [00:19:00] people, essentially.

[00:19:00] Kyle Risi: I see.

[00:19:01] Adam Cox: So this is essentially became the, so this essentially became the foundation for Scientolo So this became the foundation for Scientology. Now Scientologists imagine a world where everyone achieves this state of clear, uh, there'll be no war, no poverty, no greed, everyone will be living in harmony .

[00:19:12] Adam Cox: Um, but, and so this is why Scientolo So this is why Scientolo And so this is why Scientologists see themselves as being on this mission to save the world by getting everyone to the status of clear. Mm

[00:19:18] Kyle Risi: hmm.

[00:19:19] Adam Cox: I'm with you. So in order to reach a status of clear, a person has to go on a per So in order to reach this status of clear, a person has to undergo a combination of courses, seminars, books, and a whole load of auditing sessions, which you mentioned.

[00:19:29] Adam Cox: And these, uh, sessions and courses come with a hefty price tag. Mm hmm. come with a hefty price tag, which might surprise you. It's going to cost you a lot to go through this process. Yeah, like

[00:19:36] Kyle Risi: upwards of like 250, 000 on average. And am I correct? Yeah. And if you, for any reason, for your auditors, like, do you know what?

[00:19:44] Kyle Risi: You would do good. by Redoing like o t level three whatever it is And then you've got to go back and you've got to pay for those again Yeah,

[00:19:53] Adam Cox: yeah So yeah, if you make a mistake or if you mess up and you have to go through re education You have to pay for all of [00:20:00] that

[00:20:00] Kyle Risi: and essentially they're working their way up a chart, aren't they?

[00:20:02] Kyle Risi: So on this big red chart, there are all these different levels And the stages that you can reach and you you're the the idea is that you select a path that you want to go up. I think you can go up the auditor. path or you can go up as just the regular path a regular person and your aim is to get to the very top of their chart with only very few people ever in the world actually getting to the very top

[00:20:23] Adam Cox: yeah and so it's yeah and for every level you have to pay so it's a huge money maker for the church And essentially a pre clear person or a person receiving the auditing session is guided by an auditor through a process where they hold two metal cans connected to a device called an e meter and the auditor asks a series of questions about past experiences and feelings and then the e meter measures that person's emotional response based on this moving needle.

[00:20:49] Adam Cox: And so yeah, it's a mix between counselling and a lie detector test, um, kind of uncovering hidden memories or traumas.

[00:20:55] Kyle Risi: And scientifically. Does the E meter actually work? Who

[00:20:59] Adam Cox: [00:21:00] knows, Kyle? I covered this in the previous episode! I don't think it does. I think it's a whole It doesn't! It's, it's just I think it kind of reacts to probably

[00:21:08] Kyle Risi: Anything.

[00:21:08] Kyle Risi: Any kind of interference. In the room. Yeah, exactly. The needle shifts, but It doesn't work. There's scientifically, there's nothing in there that makes it work.

[00:21:17] Adam Cox: And I think because it like shifts to obviously to a level where it goes like, Oh, trauma detected or lies or whatever it is. You're then questioning yourself going, Oh, maybe that was a lie.

[00:21:26] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And all that bollocks. Humans are valuable, right?

[00:21:29] Adam Cox: So after enough of these sessions, the goal is to move up in the levels, like you say, and you cross the bridge of total freedom. And naturally, the more you progress, the more it costs. Um, it's estimated 128, 000 just to reach the state of clear. And then once you're clear, you then got these other levels called, uh, OT levels, which stands for Operating Thetan.

[00:21:50] Adam Cox: And these come with their own price tags. And there's eight levels in total. Um, and each time you reach a level, you then understand part of the origin or the ideologies behind [00:22:00] Scientology.

[00:22:00] Kyle Risi: Oh, interesting.

[00:22:02] Adam Cox: Now, many people describe Scientology's methods as brainwashing because the Church operates as a highly profitable, well oiled machine that exerts intense control over its members. Critics of Scientology are labelled as Suppressive Persons, or SPs for short.

[00:22:16] Kyle Risi: You're a Suppressive Person?

[00:22:17] Adam Cox: I am when it comes to Scientology, you're absolutely right.

[00:22:21] Adam Cox: And essentially you get excommunicated, so like with any other church that you, I don't know, break the rules, you're basically shunned. from that church. If you're deemed an SP, the church orders its members to cut off all contact with you, no matter who you are. So if you're a parent, a sibling, or even a child, you would lose your family.

[00:22:39] Adam Cox: And so breaking those rules leads to these punishments. So many people, um, who do leave Scientology end up losing their families, their marriages, their closest relationships, and If you're raised in the church, leaving means, yeah, you're cut off from everyone, and that's a tactic they use to try and keep people within the church because people don't want to lose their families.

[00:22:58] Kyle Risi: And on top of that as well, like, [00:23:00] being a Scientologist, you have to give extraordinarily Extraordinary amounts of time to the church where you're expected to attend two three times a week You're encouraged to make real deep close relationships with people inside the church and not with people outside the church So if you ever do get excommunicated is very likely you've got nothing

[00:23:19] Kyle Risi: So they've created an incentive to not go against the church

[00:23:23] Adam Cox: yeah, and you have to almost keep up appearances because if you do Make a comment that's out of line someone could report you And then you go through this punishment or retraining, which you don't have to pay for.

[00:23:34] Adam Cox: It's just weird.

[00:23:35] Kyle Risi: Yeah, it is.

[00:23:36] Adam Cox: And also, um, what's even worse, um, than if you're just a regular Scientologist is if you're in the Sea Org, um, . So the Sea Org is the upper echelon of Scientology. And it's like a paramilitary group. That's essentially the church's Navy members dedicate not just their life to the church, but all their future lives all their future lives too.

[00:23:54] Adam Cox: So when you join it, you sign like a billion year contract binding you to the church forever because supposedly [00:24:00] you're immortal or whatever. Yeah. So Sea Org members devote themselves entirely to serving the church, whether it's through manual labor or one of the, or on one of Scientology's ships and they're auditing others, which we'll come into a bit more detail later.

[00:24:12] Adam Cox: Um, but they've also got these celebrity centers in cities like Hollywood, New York, and Las Vegas. And these centers are designed specifically to cater to famous people, and L. Ron Hubbard made it a priority to attract celebrities because he knew they'd bring to the table. Great PR and they'd have plenty of money to spend

[00:24:28] Kyle Risi: and I guess like they would attract other people right because they're in the limelight Yeah, it's almost like a influential recruitment like refer a friend

[00:24:36] Adam Cox: And speaking of this kind of money side of it So Scientology brings in around 500 million dollars a year, but I think that might be if probably a few years out of date Mmm, I imagine it's probably more than that now One reason Scientology is so profitable is that to move up this business bridge or to total freedom bollocks.

[00:24:44] Adam Cox: There, um, you have to pay.

[00:24:45] Adam Cox: one reason Scientology is so profitable is of course because of all the courses and auditing sessions and things that you have to pay for. And naturally governments have an interest in taxing all this money. But Scientology fought hard to be recognized as a religion, which eventually happened in [00:25:00] 1993.

[00:25:00] Adam Cox: And that win gave them tax exempt status, which was a huge deal for the church as they can now avoid paying taxes. And this news was announced by a guy called David Miscavige, who went on to succeed L. Ron Hubbard as the leader of their church. And sitting in the crowd that day was Shelley Miscavige, David's wife and his right hand woman.

[00:25:19] Adam Cox: And this is And this couple is who we're going to be focusing on from now on. So Shelley was devoted to Scientologists. So Shelley was a devoted Scientologist pretty much all of her life. And this announcement that Scientology was to be recognized as a religion and have tax exemption status was a huge moment for Shelley.

[00:25:33] Adam Cox: She cared deeply about the church as it was all she'd ever known. But what she didn't realize was that the man who she trusted David would ultimately betray her and he'd do it with the help of the very organization she had dedicated her life to.

[00:25:46] Kyle Risi: Wow. Was she really instrumental in, in getting that, uh, tax exempt status or that religious status for the church?

[00:25:53] Adam Cox: I think it was David that kind of fast tracked it, uh, and pushed that forward. But, uh, What Shelley did was she was like his [00:26:00] personal assistant, which we'll come on to, but she pretty much did everything that he needed to get jobs done.

[00:26:04] Kyle Risi: Sure. What's really interesting about the having that status as well, it's not just that they don't have to pay the tax now, but also in America, they have this real sense of separation between church and state, which means that it's a lot more difficult for the government to interfere in the church's dealings because there is a separation.

[00:26:23] Kyle Risi: Yeah. So it's a big like benefit to Scientology because it means that they won't be getting scrutinized as much as they would do if they were not. Just a business or something. Yeah.

[00:26:32] Adam Cox: Yeah, exactly. So Shelley herself, um, as I mentioned, she's always grown up in Scientology. She, so Shelley herself, had grown up in Scientology.

[00:26:36] Adam Cox: She was born in 1961 and her mother Flo was a long time Scientologist. So Shelley was raised within the church, and she was being taught by L. Ron Hubbard at an early age, and she thought he was essentially a messiah. Her older sister went on to join the Sea Org, and then not long after that, at the age of 12, Shelley then followed in her footsteps and joined the Sea Org as well.

[00:26:58] Adam Cox: At that time, serving in [00:27:00] the Sea Org meant working on the Apollo, which was L. Ron Hubbard's personal ship, which he bought from the English Navy, and it served as essentially the Sea Org's headquarters.

[00:27:08] Kyle Risi: Well, on the ship.

[00:27:09] Adam Cox: On the ship.

[00:27:10] Kyle Risi: So the Sea Org's headquarters is on a ship.

[00:27:12] Adam Cox: Yes. Or it was at this point in the 70s.

[00:27:15] Adam Cox: Now life on board this ship was kind of tough, um, Hubbard was the unquestioned leader and everyone referred to him as the Commodore, but there was a strange and unsettling practice on the ship because Hubbard kept around a group of girls known as the Commodore's Messengers. Of course he did! Nothing's like said that he's a creepy man.

[00:27:31] Adam Cox: I couldn't find anything exact. He's a man,

[00:27:33] Kyle Risi: isn't he?

[00:27:34] Adam Cox: And he's a creep. Um, Um, but these. Uh, messengers. They're not like seasoned members of the Sea Org, which you'd think, oh, okay, if you're gonna be his messenger, you're gonna be like in his closely knit group of, I don't know, white men, 50 year olds sort of thing, like running the show.

[00:27:48] Adam Cox: But these are all like 12 to 16 year old girls that he handpicked himself.

[00:27:52] Kyle Risi: Like apprentices, essentially. But, but they are really close to him. Or strangely, all such young, unexperienced [00:28:00] people.

[00:28:00] Adam Cox: Yeah, there's a few reasons why he kind of chose girls, so, um, their job was to deliver messages from Hubbard to the Sea Org members, but they had to do it exactly as he instructed, so same tone, same mannerisms, they were little replicas of himself.

[00:28:12] Adam Cox: So if he was really angry at you,

[00:28:14] Kyle Risi: and he wanted to send a message, and he screamed the message, How dare you! Blah blah blah! There was a hair in my soup! I'm gonna make you pay for this! So that messenger will have to, like, like, run off and repeat the message in the same way. Like a howler from Harry Potter.

[00:28:29] Adam Cox: Yeah. . And so, imagine if you're quite senior already in the Sea Org, and this 16 year old girl is shouting at you. Oh my

[00:28:37] Kyle Risi: god!

[00:28:37] Adam Cox: You can't question it. Because if you question it, you're like, you're in the loop. The golden loop. Well

[00:28:41] Kyle Risi: it's L. Ron Hubbard's words, aren't they?

[00:28:42] Adam Cox: Yeah, so they were feared because if you, yeah, got a howler from a 16 year old. Outstanding.

[00:28:49] Adam Cox: Um, so one of the messengers once asked Hubbard why he specifically chose young girls for the role, and his answer was he got the idea from Hitler. What?

[00:28:59] Kyle Risi: I hope you didn't [00:29:00] repeat that, like, in an official capacity on any documents, anyway.

[00:29:03] Adam Cox: What was his reasoning behind that?

[00:29:05] Adam Cox: Um, well, one of the reasons he said, um, was that I don't know exactly what Hitler did, but girls were You don't know what Hitler did? Well, I don't know what I meant in terms of choosing young girls, but the reason he did this is he thought that girls were easier to manipulate, or were more compliant than perhaps

[00:29:19] Kyle Risi: men.

[00:29:20] Kyle Risi: Ooh. Bit of misogyny there, isn't it??

[00:29:22] Adam Cox: Mm. What a douchebag. Anyway, um, Shelly practically worshipped him and clung to his every word, and in a lot of ways, Hubbard

[00:29:29] Kyle Risi: I mean, that's her job,

[00:29:31] Adam Cox: to be fair. Yeah, she can't

[00:29:32] Kyle Risi: Say it exactly like this, okay?

[00:29:34] Adam Cox: Hubbard was a bit like a surrogate father to her. Shelly was a bit of a loner, not hanging out with other girls as much, and was laser focused on her mission to serve Hubbard.

[00:29:43] Adam Cox: She was very much by the book, following every rule to the T. Eventually Hubbard did start to begin recruiting boys as messengers too, and one of them was 16 year old David Miscavige, who had quit high school to join the Sea Org. He started out doing menial tasks on the Apollo, like washing dishes and [00:30:00] cleaning the decks.

[00:30:01] Adam Cox: But by 1977, he was moved to the base in La Quinta, California, to work directly under Hubbard, producing training films.

[00:30:08] Kyle Risi: Training films? Yeah. Do you potentially mean propaganda films? A A

[00:30:14] Adam Cox: little from column A, a little from column B. And so this is where Shelley and David first meet and their relation, and their relationship begins while they're still teenagers.

[00:30:22] Kyle Risi: How old is she at this point?

[00:30:23] Adam Cox: Um,

[00:30:23] Kyle Risi: similar age, I think. And I mean, there's not a lot to do on the boat, is there?

[00:30:27] Kyle Risi: Apart from swabbing the deck. I don't

[00:30:30] Adam Cox: know. Yeah, and playing, um, what's the thing where you like, um, I don't know, don't they? Isn't there like a certain game that you play on the deck? Like boys? Boys. Yeah. Coits?

[00:30:43] Kyle Risi: Boys. I like that. I'm going to go on a ship so I can play boys. Anyway.

[00:30:52] Adam Cox: At the time, David was charming and pleasant, uh, but he was also very ambitious. Even as a young man, he had set his sights on reaching the top of [00:31:00] Scientology. David himself was also raged David himself was also raised in Scientology. His father, Ron Miscavige, brought the entire family into the church, and according to their story, David was cured of severe asthma and allergies after a quick 45 minute Dianetics session.

[00:31:15] Kyle Risi: Oh yeah, I remember that.

[00:31:16] Adam Cox: Which sounds like a load of boo hockey, if you ask me. Yeah, I mean,

[00:31:18] Kyle Risi: well, every messiah, because he technically is the messiah now, needs like,

[00:31:22] Adam Cox: An origin story.

[00:31:23] Kyle Risi: An origin story, just like um, Ty Warner, do you remember him, the Beanie Baby Guru guy? His origin story was that a big plushy bear came to him in a dream and told him, you need to go into plush.

[00:31:36] Kyle Risi: So this is it, like his story is like, like, I was healed of everything. Asthma.

[00:31:40] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:31:40] Kyle Risi: And do you not like have a hearing problem as well? I think.

[00:31:43] Adam Cox: Um, just had asthma and allergies. Allergies. So he took some, what is it,, antihistamine? Or some Manuka honey or whatever you call that. Yeah, and damn, his highness has cleared up after that.

[00:31:55] Adam Cox: Anyway, so it was a pivotal moment, that solidified his belief in [00:32:00] Scientology, and by the age of 12, David himself became the youngest auditor in the church, making him something of a bit of a

[00:32:07] Kyle Risi: Can you imagine just revealing all your deep, dark secrets to, I imagine what he must be like 16, 17?

[00:32:13] Adam Cox: No,

[00:32:13] Kyle Risi: 12. Oh, he was 12? Yes. And like, telling this 12 year old that like, you had unsavory thoughts about your mother-in-law

[00:32:22] Adam Cox: Exactly

[00:32:23] Kyle Risi: how is this

[00:32:23] Adam Cox: okay?

[00:32:24] Kyle Risi: And him giving you advice on what to do,

[00:32:26] Adam Cox: like Mm,

[00:32:27] Kyle Risi: yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:27] Adam Cox: I think, um, you can't audit someone that is higher than you.

[00:32:31] Adam Cox: But then in terms of ranking, I think so in terms of ranking, but he could still be auditing adults and like, like you say, like some weird shit could come up and. Yeah, I don't trust this. Why shouldn't you be at school? Shouldn't you be playing with your beanie babies? Yeah. Anyway, so together, David and Shelley became a Scientology power couple and David began his rapid rise to the top.

[00:32:49] Adam Cox: And around this time, L. Ron Hubbard's health began to decline and he went into hiding for the next six years. Not to mention he was also wanted for fraud. The church's leadership, including [00:33:00] David Miscavige, wanted to take Scientology in a different direction, and one of the people to apparently know where Hubbard was, uh, and that he was in hiding, was of course David Miscavige, who at this time was around about 19 years old.

[00:33:12] Adam Cox: So it kind of demonstrates how important David had become. Interestingly, Elrond's wife, Mary Sue, had no idea of his whereabouts. He was like, don't tell her. Keep that secret.

[00:33:22] Kyle Risi: Seems like there's a lot of secrets that people keep from, especially when it comes to your partner. Like, where's Shelley? Where's, where's, what's his wife's name?

[00:33:29] Adam Cox: Uh, Mary Sue. So it's a bit of a parallel, to be fair, with what would happen with David and Shelley . Although David might know where Shelley is. Yeah.

[00:33:35] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's it.

[00:33:36] Adam Cox: even though, so even though David Miscavige was still a teenager, people feared him, not because he,

[00:33:36] Adam Cox: even though David Miscavige was still a teenager, people begun to fear him, and one of those reasons was because he was trained by L. Ron Hubbard. He had learned his tactic to get what he wanted, you have to berate and yell at everyone below you. So he was ambitious, he was power hungry, and frankly, a little unhinged, he quickly adopted the rule by fear method in order to get his way.

[00:33:59] Kyle Risi: So a [00:34:00] cult leader in the making already.

[00:34:02] Adam Cox: Exactly. And in December 1982, David and Shirley got married. And over the next few years, David began restructuring the leadership of Scientology, effectively cementing his control. And at this point, Hubbard's only known contact continued to be through a group of his trusted messengers.

[00:34:17] Adam Cox: And of course, David was one of them. And he would relay those messages. But a lot of people speculate that actually those messages are But a lot of people actually speculate that those orders weren't necessarily coming from Hubbard, but from David himself or David manipulating the information.

[00:34:28] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I mean, you've got this guy who's really young.

[00:34:31] Kyle Risi: He's really connected to L. Ron Hubbard. He's got this exclusive access. He has big ambitions to do well in the church. The only two people that are standing in his way are those two close confidants that actually have contact with L. Ron Hubbard, obviously through him. So of course, 100%, he's going to manipulate that.

[00:34:49] Kyle Risi: And I think he does, doesn't he?

[00:34:51] Adam Cox: Yeah. Um, , he does. Um, cause like you say, there are a couple other people that are close to Hubbard, .

[00:34:56] Kyle Risi: One of them is the guy who's pegged to take over.

[00:34:58] Adam Cox: Yeah. So he leaves it in a [00:35:00] legal memo, I think it is. Um, to say that I want these two people to take over the church.

[00:35:05] Adam Cox: But what David does is he comes out and goes, Nope, that's fake. And basically turns them into, um, SPs. And basically excommunicates them.

[00:35:13] Kyle Risi: SPs

[00:35:14] Adam Cox: are Suppressed persons. Suppressed persons. And basically excommunicates them from the church in order to get his way. And

[00:35:18] Kyle Risi: they've been in the church since the beginning.

[00:35:20] Kyle Risi: So, So, wow, you've got this young kid who's like, what, early 20s by this point, and he is just, he's getting it, he's getting what he wants.

[00:35:28] Adam Cox: So before that happened, um, Hubbard's writings had become more erratic and he basically started to pen these long frenzied letters about psychiatrists claiming they were the root of all evil.

[00:35:37] Adam Cox: And this allowed David to signlite, uh, Hubbard's family members as well, including Mary Sue. He even got rid of her because , he got her to publicly humiliate herself, calling her an embarrassment to the church, and she tried to fight back, but she had no choice but to step down and was removed from the church as well.

[00:35:56] Adam Cox: Wow. He also got rid of two of Hubbard's children from their positions, [00:36:00] labeling them a security risk, and so I think he ended up making one of them his personal maid. Steve Can you imagine, what a fall from grace. Richard Exactly, yeah, , he completely manipulated and took hold of this situation.

[00:36:13] Adam Cox: Um, so when Elrond did eventually die of a stroke in 1986, um, for some people it was a, you know, it's expected, old man, That's what happens. Yeah. But those within Scientology are like, well, hang on, isn't he immortal? Isn't he like this great person? And so what David did, he quickly spun the narrative saying that Hubbard had simply discarded his physical body to continue his work on the higher OT levels, and that one day he will return.

[00:36:38] Kyle Risi: Oh, so the return of the Messiah.

[00:36:40] Adam Cox: Yeah. I see. Some people believe that Hubbard actually died a few years earlier and that David and his inner circle had covered it up to buy themselves some time and secure their positions of power. But hey, there's a whole load of conspiracy in here. So there's a lot of allegedly supposedly sources say.

[00:36:56] Kyle Risi: It's just crazy to me that this was even allowed to happen unchecked [00:37:00] as well. And it just goes to show how much power There was there for the grabbing essentially that you can close off all investigations and questions Into what actually happened. Yeah, and there to even be this mystery around it It's mental

[00:37:16] Adam Cox: and only at 26 years old.

[00:37:18] Adam Cox: Did he take control of the church? So he did all this I mean he started at 12 and been manipulated and ever since

[00:37:26] Kyle Risi: yeah But how much of this was Shelly Miscavige, you know what they say behind every great man You

[00:37:32] Adam Cox: is a great woman. Um, and you're right. She's not just this quiet wife standing by.

[00:37:36] Adam Cox: She's an active participant and she's gentler in, in comparison, in comparison to David. Um, but she's his loyal and right hand woman. Uh, and together they push the church forward. Albeit some reports and sources counter argue this and say her actual influence is not quite as strong as people made out.

[00:37:53] Adam Cox: So while she was officially in charge of staff in the executive office and primarily served whatever role her husband [00:38:00] needed, from counsellor to valet, their relationship became so imbalanced that Shelley appeared more like an employee than a spouse. Oh. And the couple's dynamic was a distant, and the couple's dynamic was quite distant, with reports of them retiring to separate bedrooms and displaying no affection in public.

[00:38:13] Kyle Risi: But I just feel like you get powerful enough and you get rich enough. That, that is just the norm, where it just makes sense. Should we just have separate bedrooms? What a good night's sleep. Yeah, exactly. You get to like, be in the queen. And they have separate bedrooms.

[00:38:27] Adam Cox: one guy that had worked with the miscarriages for 15 years said that he never saw any physical closeness between them. Um, but then if you're in the Sea Org, then actually there are strict policies that kind of might explain their lack of affection anyway. Sure. No public PDAs.

[00:38:42] Kyle Risi: And also they're high flying professionals as well, right?

[00:38:45] Kyle Risi: They're, essentially. , the messiah of Scientology. So of course they're not going to be being all lovey dovey in public.

[00:38:53] Adam Cox: Yeah, sticking their tongues down each other's throats. Yeah. At a meeting.

[00:38:56] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly. It's stupid. Instead he's going to beat the shit [00:39:00] out of you in the meeting.

[00:39:01] Adam Cox: In front of everyone. In front of everyone. That's not far off to be fair. Um, Um, but not necessarily her, but he does abuse other people. Yes. So, um, several sources report that Shelly Miscavige became increasingly focused on her appearance, adhering to a strict natural diet that left her noticeably thin and caused tension with some of her female colleagues.

[00:39:21] Kyle Risi: 100 percent less David's doing.

[00:39:23] Adam Cox: Probably. Um, she had accused her husband of cheating, though there's no evidence of that infidelity. But it suggests that their just marriage wasn't in a good place, and it's more of a business relationship anyway.

[00:39:33] Kyle Risi: Again, when you get to that level of power, I think it's safe to assume he's shagging everyone he can.

[00:39:41] Adam Cox: Well, that's against, um, the rules Yeah, but

[00:39:42] Kyle Risi: he's the king of Scientology. He's the messiah. Mm. Rules do not apply every time you have a cult leader. The rules do not apply to that person.

[00:39:52] Adam Cox: Of course Yeah,

[00:39:52] Kyle Risi: and we've got loads of examples. We have Jim Jones, right? The rules didn't apply to him We have

[00:39:56] Kyle Risi: In the Paddy Hearst episode with, uh, Donald [00:40:00] DeFreeze, right? The rules didn't apply to him. We've got, so, and we've got, yeah, so every time we do a cult episode, the rules never apply to the actual person who is actually running the show. . Yeah,

[00:40:09] Adam Cox: so, it, we don't actually know for sure, but there is speculation that he was unfaithful. Um, . So Shirley recognized that there were similarities to herself and Mary Sue Hubbard, L. Ron Hubbard's wife, who had been abandoned. And so she was determined not to share the same fate, but she took guidance from an essay by Hubbard, which implied that failing to support a man could lead to his downfall.

[00:40:31] Adam Cox: So that was a really nice way that Hubbard would also manipulate that situation.

[00:40:34] Kyle Risi: Yeah.

[00:40:35] Adam Cox: So

[00:40:35] Kyle Risi: what's that saying exactly? That if she doesn't support David, then He won't be successful as, but then if he's treating her like that Then she's not gonna support him if she wants to bring his downfall.

[00:40:48] Adam Cox: She just has to comply with whatever he does

[00:40:50] Kyle Risi: Not unless she doesn't want him to succeed.

[00:40:52] Adam Cox: Yeah, but I think because she is so dedicated to Scientology. At this moment. At this moment.

[00:40:58] Kyle Risi: I doubt she is now. [00:41:00] Well, we don't know We don't know. Yeah, do you know what? Cut that bullshit. We need to lean into the conspiracy.

[00:41:06] Adam Cox: So David, as we know, was incredibly ambitious and driven. One of David's biggest wins as leader was, of course, achieving that tax exempt status for Scientology in 1993, years ahead of schedule.

[00:41:18] Adam Cox: Another key element. I mentioned was about bringing celebrities into Scientology and Hubbard's original mission to recruit famous personalities, uh, was something that David took very seriously and his biggest success is bringing in Tom Cruise, who became the face of Scientology for many.

[00:41:34] Adam Cox: And today when people think of Scientology, they think of Tom Cruise.

[00:41:38] Kyle Risi: And they think, yeah. David Miscavige and Tom Cruise are lovers.

[00:41:43] Adam Cox: Do they?

[00:41:44] Kyle Risi: No, but I'd like to think they are. Okay.

[00:41:47] Adam Cox: but Cruise wasn't the only celebrity David brought in.

[00:41:49] Adam Cox: Other high profile Scientologists include John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Elizabeth Moss, Michael Pena, Danny Masterson, Laura Preppen, and Juliette Lewis.

[00:41:58] Kyle Risi: I've heard that Sabrina [00:42:00] Carpenter is connected to Scientology and she's potentially being pegged to help with a new recruitment drive for the younger generation because I think her aunt is big Scientology Transcribed by https: otter.

[00:42:11] Kyle Risi: ai And I think she's loosely connected. I think they want to get her in now because she's nice and famous.

[00:42:15] Adam Cox: Yeah. I mean, she's been in the top 10 like for months and like her top three singles have been like number one, two and three or whatever for weeks. So yeah, I imagine she's going to be sending out some subliminal messages.

[00:42:26] Adam Cox: TikTok.

[00:42:28] Kyle Risi: You do think it's all, it's all you play the record backwards. You can't really play

[00:42:31] Adam Cox: records backwards anymore. Can you? What's Espresso backwards?

[00:42:35] Kyle Risi: Oh God.

[00:42:36] Adam Cox: Oppress. Or is it? Is it? No, not quite. I see. You're making it up. I feel like there's some letters there. There's an anagram. I don't know.

[00:42:43] Kyle Risi: I don't have a pen here to verify that, so Hang on.

[00:42:46] Kyle Risi: Because you say oppressive. There's no X in oppressive. But again, there's no X in espresso. Rookie mistake, Kyle.

[00:42:53] Adam Cox: Hang on. Expresso is sort of like Oppress. if you rearrange some of the [00:43:00] letters and take out some of them.

[00:43:01] Kyle Risi: Ooh, conspiracy. However, if that may be the case, but I don't think that is the leading thing that Scientology would want to go with.

[00:43:11] Kyle Risi: if they were trying to do a recruitment drive. No?

[00:43:13] Adam Cox: Don't want to catch his think tube?

[00:43:14] Kyle Risi: They're not going to go, oh, join Scientologists, we are extremely oppressive. Espresso. I doubt it.

[00:43:24] Adam Cox: I don't know, maybe we've uncovered something here, Kyle. Like. A whole episode on it. Yeah, we'll circle back to that. Um, So yeah, a lot of famous people are in this church. Some people have left since Nicole Kidman, Katie Holmes and Juliette Lewis. But Tom Cruise and David Miscavige became really good friends.

[00:43:39] Adam Cox: And there's even a group within Scientology, whose sole purpose is keeping Tom happy. This extended into his personal life, including his dating life. Which is where things get really strange, because after Tom broke up with Penelope Cruz in 2004, he reportedly kept calling David to help him find a new girlfriend.

[00:43:57] Adam Cox: And David tasked Shelley with finding a match for him, [00:44:00] and she introduced him to Nazanin Boniadi.

[00:44:03] Adam Cox: , but their relationship ended in 2005, so it didn't really work out. And Tom eventually started dating Katie Holmes, and it was unclear whether Shelley had anything to do with that.

[00:44:11] Kyle Risi: But all these people that you mentioned, had left Scientology. Yeah. They're all women. I may have left as well. Yeah, but it just feels like it's most, it's very little for women to gain being in Scientology. Possibly, yeah. So, I just, I don't know. I don't know if there's a thread to pull on there.

[00:44:28] Kyle Risi: I don't know. Gender dynamics.

[00:44:29] Adam Cox: So around this time, David's behaviour became increasingly erratic. His temper was notorious and according to many former Scientologists, he frequently lashed out in anger.

[00:44:40] Kyle Risi: Like he would like literally beat the shit out of people during board meetings in front of other people.

[00:44:45] Adam Cox: Yeah, that's right.

[00:44:46] Kyle Risi: Smash their heads against the table.

[00:44:47] Adam Cox: If you looked in the wrong way.

[00:44:48] Kyle Risi: Yeah, . So he was a very vicious, volatile kind of guy. That's terrifying. Which just breeds the sentiment that you cannot speak out or [00:45:00] challenge him in any way because you have no idea what he's going to do next.

[00:45:02] Adam Cox: Yeah, if you're at an event and you don't look happy enough, he will have you interrogated because you're not happy. looking the part.

[00:45:08] Kyle Risi: And the thing is, what that breeds is this culture where you are just surrounded by yes men, people who are not willing to challenge you. And that really will warp the way that you interpret the world.

[00:45:19] Kyle Risi: You will think that you are the messiah.

[00:45:22] Adam Cox: Yeah, exactly. People are just inflating his ego. And I think They say if the closer you got to him, it wasn't a case of if you'd fall out of favour, it was when you'd fall out of favour.

[00:45:33] Kyle Risi: Really? Crap.

[00:45:35] Adam Cox: So in 2004, Dave's behaviour reached a new level when he created something known as The Hole.

[00:45:40] Adam Cox: Essentially a prison for top level Scientologist Executives. And his lieutenants were subjected to extreme conditions, further solidifying his reputation as a leader that would just rule by fear.

[00:45:51] Kyle Risi: Do you know how The Hole came about?

[00:45:53] Adam Cox: Um

[00:45:53] Adam Cox: Because I can tell you. Fine, let's say that again.

[00:45:53] Adam Cox: So I've got some information what went on in the hole, but yeah, you go on this.

[00:45:57] Kyle Risi: So the hole was an interesting kind of [00:46:00] invention. So where the Scientology ranch is, I can't remember what it's called.

[00:46:04] Kyle Risi: So they were actually doing some renovation work. And what they did is they brought in a bunch of these prefabs to how some of the office workers While they were renovating or redeveloping the office buildings and one day I think soon after the work was done He had this big argument with someone and he grabbed him by the the scruff took him down to the prefab locked him in there And then eventually that then just became the hole where they would bring people to it's essentially a temporary prefab Classroom that we would like learn maths in when we were kids.

[00:46:37] Adam Cox: Oh, I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah, that's all that is So he kind of created a prison almost on a whim

[00:46:41] Kyle Risi: Yeah, because they were doing, like, renovations.

[00:46:44] Adam Cox: Yeah, he does get mad about renovation work. Yeah, he gets pissed at Shelley for that, but yeah, , we'll come on to that. Um, so the hole, um, I didn't realize that's how it started, but it was from 2004 to 2007.

[00:46:56] Adam Cox: The number of people confined to the hole [00:47:00] skyrocketed from around 40 to nearly 100. So I don't know if it's now expanded from a classroom sized room. But where you had to sleep, it was like on cots or floors or even on desks. So it's not really suitable for this many people. Everyone was crammed in and there's only like about six inches between you.

[00:47:18] Adam Cox: So if you wanted to get up in the night, you'd have to wake everyone around you to like squeeze past.

[00:47:21] Kyle Risi: How humiliating. Because this is also This is the headquarters. So there's a lot of professional people about aren't people that are just kind of going about the day chilling out, chilling out and kind of relaxing and stuff.

[00:47:32] Kyle Risi: It's not a commune. This is a, place of business. So these people are there in their business attire and they've been there for weeks and months and they're dirty and they're tattered and they can't poo in private.

[00:47:43] Adam Cox: Yeah, the conditions sound horrendous. I mean, these executives, like you say,

[00:47:47] Adam Cox: they're kind of quite senior within Scientology, um, but they're only allowed to leave, um, for certain events that they need to be at, or to shower in like a nearby maintenance garage. And so they're escorted around all the time. Meals are [00:48:00] brought in on golf carts, and they're described as just like leftovers, essentially.

[00:48:05] Adam Cox: The building's infested with ants, and at times the electricity is cut, leaving people to suffer in temperatures as low as, you know, 50 degrees Celsius. above 37 degrees Celsius, which is over 100 degrees Fahrenheit.

[00:48:15] Kyle Risi: In a prefab!

[00:48:16] Adam Cox: Yeah, so it's sweaty.

[00:48:17] Kyle Risi: They would get hot, and they would get cold. Like, you can't win, there's no in between.

[00:48:21] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:48:22] Kyle Risi: Like, we live in 2024. Just make a prefab classroom. That can maintain a decent, respectable temperature.

[00:48:28] Adam Cox: I didn't realise you felt so strongly about

[00:48:30] Kyle Risi: that. Well, I think for like my entire last year at high school, my main form room was a prefab.

[00:48:37] Adam Cox: I was in the same one for two years. So I was in year one, I was in one room.

[00:48:41] Adam Cox: And then the same year, I was back in that room. Every time it was thunder and lightning, everyone's like, Oh my God, it's going to like burn down the place.

[00:48:47] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And like in the winter, you would see your breath. Yeah. You would have to wear gloves while you were working. And wearing gloves. While you're writing with a pen.

[00:48:56] Kyle Risi: It's impossible. And in the summer, it's just baking hot. [00:49:00] Oh, that's what these people are living through.

[00:49:01] Adam Cox: Yes, the conditions,

[00:49:03] Kyle Risi: And to add insult to injury, there's loads of ants!

[00:49:06] Adam Cox: Yeah, don't leave a jam sandwich out.

[00:49:08] Kyle Risi: No!

[00:49:08] Adam Cox: It's an outrage! Um, so yeah, the conditions are deeply dehumanising, and those confined in the hole weren't just ordinary members, they're like the top leaders, and, um, they're reduced to making forced confessions under intense pressure. Sometimes 50 people would be screaming at someone, demanding they confess to crimes they hadn't committed.

[00:49:27] Adam Cox: Uh, it's almost like a North Korean prisoner of war camp,

[00:49:29] Kyle Risi: yeah, probably that's what he's based it on.

[00:49:31] Adam Cox: Mike Rinder, once, uh, a high ranking figure

[00:49:33] Kyle Risi: Ooh, I recognise that name!

[00:49:34] Adam Cox: Yeah, he's um, he was a high ranking figure in Scientology and he was also responsible for handling threats against the church, whether it be lawsuits, investigations or critics.

[00:49:44] Adam Cox: Yeah. So he was known for orchestrating aggressive PR campaigns to discredit former members who dared to speak out against Scientology.

[00:49:52] Adam Cox: But he's actually since escaped , which is why we know so much about his conversations with Shelley and some of the conditions within the whole.

[00:49:59] Kyle Risi: [00:50:00] Yeah, he's got a podcast, hasn't he? With him and Leah Remini, where they are like a duo podcast where they just go through all of this crap.

[00:50:07] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[00:50:08] Adam Cox: They've had a documentary as well together. So a number of things.

[00:50:11] Adam Cox: Um, and one thing that I found. Really like surprising and bizarre. Um, if you take the case of Danny Masterson, he's an actor from the 70s show Yeah, yeah,

[00:50:21] Kyle Risi: he was

[00:50:21] Kyle Risi: recently in the papers for having sex with a girl , I believe. I don't know if it was worse than that

[00:50:26] Adam Cox: Yeah, sexual assault. So I don't know I don't think it was down to Mike Rinder, um, what happened in this investigation , because I think Mike had already left Scientology at this point.

[00:50:35] Adam Cox: But just to give you an example of some of the type of stuff they would do to go after people, essentially four former members of Scientology accused Masterson of sexual assault. After they reported the incidents to the police, they were then labeled as suppressive persons and expelled from the church.

[00:50:51] Adam Cox: And in a civil lawsuit, they claimed that the church launched a harassment campaign against them. involving stalking, invasion of privacy, and emotional [00:51:00] distress. Damn. One victim's dog even died under mysterious circumstances and there are reports of online harassment and property damage.

[00:51:08] Kyle Risi: Do you know what?

[00:51:08] Kyle Risi: I can forgive anything. I can forgive the prefabs. I cannot forgive killing a dog.

[00:51:12] Adam Cox: Yeah, it's horrendous. And this is all because they spoke out against Scientology , or it put Scientology in a negative light, so I don't think they're speaking out against it, they're speaking out against this guy, Danny Masterson, but of course, he's also a Scientologist, and so that's why they were like, oh, we need to silence this.

[00:51:30] Kyle Risi: Well, they got to protect their own, specifically, because he's a celebrity, and specifically, he's important for PR, and the optics of the church.

[00:51:40] Adam Cox: It's damage control.

[00:51:41] Kyle Risi: I don't think it would have been Rinder who did that because of course as you said It's been years since he's left.

[00:51:47] Adam Cox: Yeah, but that might be the type of stuff that he used to do.

[00:51:50] Adam Cox: Yeah, for sure Um, it was revealed that the Church of Scientology had attempted to interfere in the proceedings by harassing LAPD detectives Prosecutors and the victims that [00:52:00] were coming after Danny Masterson and So, Masterson's former attorneys were also sanctioned for leaking confidential information about the victims to the church, it's just an example of the crazy shit this church, , does.

[00:52:13] Kyle Risi: Mental.

[00:52:14] Adam Cox: . Now back to Mike Rinder. Um, as I said, he's one of Scientology's top people , um, but he also faced abuse within the church and spent time in the hole himself. Hence why we know so much about the hole. He recalled how the interrogation spiraled into chaos with people turning on each other in this desperate attempt to survive.

[00:52:32] Adam Cox: Everyone accused others of fabricated sins, affairs, thefts, just to stop the relentless screaming. And it became like a survival mechanism. If you didn't attack, you'd become the target.

[00:52:43] Kyle Risi: Wow. All while you're in the hall with like a hundred other people

[00:52:46] Adam Cox: just shouting at you going, you, you had an affair and like, well, you spat on my shoe.

[00:52:51] Adam Cox: I don't know. Like, it's just,

[00:52:54] Kyle Risi: God, how awful.

[00:52:56] Adam Cox: Yeah, the pressure just seems so intense. And Rinder [00:53:00] had to write an apology letter to David Miscavige confessing to supposed treason. And he spent two years in the hole, and he reached a breaking point and escaped. So yeah, that is pretty Horrendous.

[00:53:13] Kyle Risi: How did he escape?

[00:53:14] Kyle Risi: Do we know?

[00:53:14] Adam Cox: I can't remember. There's some people that just made a run for it, but then they end up getting caught. Some people got smuggled out in the boot of a car and things like that.

[00:53:21] Kyle Risi: Yeah, that's pretty much the only way that you can because the thing, the thing is as well, in the area where they are, they're very much in cahoots with the police. So when people do escape and the police find you, they will, they will take you straight back because they're in their pocket. We'll

[00:53:36] Adam Cox: come on to that.

[00:53:36] Kyle Risi: Oh god.

[00:53:37] Adam Cox: , one of the ways out of the hole, if you didn't escape, was if you managed to confess and that satisfied David Miscavige, then he might let you out of that hole, but obviously that could take quite some time.

[00:53:50] Kyle Risi: Gotta catch up on a good day, I guess.

[00:53:52] Adam Cox: And so, , Shelley Miscavige is obviously privy to a lot of the information and all the events that went on, people that were in the hole, [00:54:00] definitely David's, like, secrets and his rage.

[00:54:03] Adam Cox: She tried to appease him, doing everything she could to keep him happy, while sometimes playing, like, a peacemaker, calming things down and preventing other members. But she noticed David's behaviour spiralling out of control, and she confided in other hearts. And she confided in to other high level Scientologists about her concerns for David.

[00:54:21] Adam Cox: But questioning David's authority was dangerous, even for her. Um, she tried her best to support him, but, um,

[00:54:27] Adam Cox: So even though she tried her best to support him, um, people said that she was almost like the shock absorber for David's temper, and numerous witnesses have confirmed that, um, she endured this frequent verbal abuse with David berating her because she didn't meet his expectations. Um, so David, um, left Goldba so David, um, left Goldbase their headquarters one time , which is where , the hole is located, to spend a few months

[00:54:47] Adam Cox: in Los Angeles for business and he left Shelly behind and that was quite unusual as they always seem to travel together and whilst away Shelly tried to manage church matters and tie up loose ends hoping to keep things [00:55:00] running smoothly in his absence. One of David's biggest concerns was filling key roles on the church's organizational chart and his impossibly high standards meant that these roles were really hard to fill.

[00:55:13] Adam Cox: And so Shelly took it on herself to try and get that resolved and she made two major decisions without his approval. Okay, this is not good. No, so she filled, um, the organizational board and got people within those roles without telling him. And then the other thing that she did is he, she moved David's personal belongings to temporary quarters whilst renovations were being done on one of his villas.

[00:55:35] Kyle Risi: Yes, , I think I very vaguely remember this. This is not good for her, is it? Yeah,

[00:55:40] Adam Cox: don't touch his stuff.

[00:55:42] Kyle Risi: Don't touch his things! Stop it! It's like you.

[00:55:45] Adam Cox: Yeah. I can't

[00:55:46] Kyle Risi: touch anything of yours.

[00:55:47] Adam Cox: Yeah, well, I might put you in the hole if you do.

[00:55:48] Kyle Risi: But I do anyway.

[00:55:50] Adam Cox: So she knew that she perhaps overstepped the mark and she became like quite withdrawn and very nervous about what perhaps she had done and around this time Mike [00:56:00] Rinder visited David in Los Angeles and when Mike returned to gold base Shelly sought him out immediately and she took him to a secluded patio where they couldn't be overheard and she asked a really peculiar question.

[00:56:11] Adam Cox: She said to Mike, when you saw David, was he wearing his gold or platinum wedding ring?

[00:56:17] Kyle Risi: What does that mean?

[00:56:18] Adam Cox: Mike was like, caught off guard. He's like, I'm not really paying attention to his rings. Yeah, no one's gonna,

[00:56:23] Kyle Risi: yeah.

[00:56:23] Adam Cox: Does he have more than one wedding ring?

[00:56:25] Kyle Risi: This is the thing with women, right?

[00:56:27] Kyle Risi: It shocks me every time. Like, they are the first to clock if a man is wearing a wedding ring. It's the last thing I'd look at.

[00:56:34] Adam Cox: No, but she was being very tactile with asking like, was he wearing this or that wedding ring?

[00:56:40] Kyle Risi: Yeah, but that's what I mean. A man wouldn't notice if another man or a woman was even wearing a wedding ring.

[00:56:44] Kyle Risi: Yeah. But she's asking a very specific question. Not only was she wearing a wedding ring, was he wearing the platinum one

[00:56:50] Adam Cox: or the gold one? Well, she didn't want to come out right, Well, she didn't want to come out and say, Was he wearing his wedding ring? So she kind of disguised it by saying, Was it the gold or the platinum one?

[00:56:58] Adam Cox: She just wanted to know, Was he [00:57:00] wearing his wedding ring? Because if he wasn't, Then things weren't looking good for her. Okay,

[00:57:05] Kyle Risi: another thing. If you are like one of the most famous men IN THE WORLD Right. Wearing your wedding ring is not going to do anything for anyone. People know who you are.

[00:57:15] Kyle Risi: They know that you're married.

[00:57:17] Adam Cox: But Shelley's paranoid because she knows things could be wrong. There's been a number of things that clearly have been pointing in a direction that things are not going to end well for her. Okay. And this is just one of those things. And it's actually the last time that Mike has a conversation with Shelley.

[00:57:30] Kyle Risi: Why? Is that because he leaves the church?

[00:57:32] Adam Cox: Uh, no, that's the last time he ever sees Shelley again, because when David returns to Gold Base and sees that Shelley had obviously moved his things, had updated the organisational chart I

[00:57:43] Kyle Risi: SAID DON'T TOUCH MY STUFF!

[00:57:44] Kyle Risi: Goddammit, Shelley!

[00:57:45] Adam Cox: I think he's more angry than that. He goes into a psychotic rage. Oh, Jesus.

[00:57:51] Kyle Risi: What? That was pretty psychotic, Adam. Um, that's psychotic? Yeah. Or you think I can escalate it up even higher? I've seen you be [00:58:00] hysterical. You mean funny, right? Funny hysterical.

[00:58:03] Adam Cox: No, I mean as in hysterical.

[00:58:04] Adam Cox: Hysterical, hysterical. Like

[00:58:06] Kyle Risi: Victorian times female hysterical.

[00:58:09] Adam Cox: We're like,

[00:58:09] Kyle Risi: early by smelling salts!

[00:58:11] Adam Cox: You've had some gin. So what Shelley thought were caring gestures whilst David is away , obviously trying to like do a good deed but for David they were unforgivable sins and according to witnesses David had a meltdown, David had a meltdown screaming and calling everyone is treasonous fucks.

[00:58:27] Adam Cox: So,

[00:58:27] Kyle Risi: Savory, don't you kiss your mama with that mouth? I do, yeah.

[00:58:34] Adam Cox: So without any further explanation he stormed off back to LA. Okay. Despite his outburst, Shelley tried to fix things, and a few days later, she drove down to see him to try and save her marriage, but when she returned, apparently she seemed defeated, and then a week after David's return to Gold Bay, sometime between late 2005 and early 2006, Shelley disappears.

[00:58:56] Adam Cox: Shelly's assistant saw her being escorted into a [00:59:00] car, Shelly was in tears, covering her face as if to hide her crying. She got into the car, and that's the last time her assistant sees her.

[00:59:08] Kyle Risi: Wow, and they have no idea where she's gone.

[00:59:10] Adam Cox: So fast forward to November 2006, Katie Holmes and Tom Cruise are having their high profile high profile wedding in Italy. And David Miscavige is there. He's Tom Cruise's best man. The event's a spectacle filled with celebrities and high ranking Scientologists and Leah Remini is there. And she's the one that we spoke about a lot in the last episode.

[00:59:30] Adam Cox: Um, And she's grown up in the church, um, ever since she was about nine years old. She's also kind of one of the key celebrity faces, like, promoting the church, being an actress herself. But behind the scenes, Leah had started to notice some troubling signs, and one of those came at that wedding, uh, with Tom and Katie, um, because what she had noticed is that Shelley Miscavige wasn't there.

[00:59:53] Kyle Risi: And I guess that's unusual because they're always seen together, right?

[00:59:55] Adam Cox: Exactly, and this is the wedding of the century in Scientology. Okay. And so, [01:00:00] for her to not be there, and the wife of the church's leader, that seemed really strange. And Leah and Shelley had been friends for years, they regularly exchanged letters, but leading up to the wedding, uh, Leah had been less responsive, or not responsive.

[01:00:13] Adam Cox: I mean, that's not

[01:00:13] Kyle Risi: really something you do with a friend, exchange letters, right? Just get on the blower and you chat shit about Karen from finance.

[01:00:20] Adam Cox: I don't know why, but apparently that's how they used to communicate, through letters. But maybe they're not great friends.

[01:00:25] Adam Cox: But either way, Leah is concerned, because of all people that should be here, Shelley's probably one of them. So, Leah being quite direct, she asks a high level Sea Org member, Where is Shelley? And the response she got was, You don't have the fucking rank to ask where Shelley is. Wow. And she's just like, whoa, I'm just asking a regular question here.

[01:00:43] Adam Cox: I just want to know if, if she's going to be turning up. And so that to her made her think, okay, something is seriously wrong. Yes. So while still in Italy, Leah sends a message to her assistant asking her to file knowledge reports, which are essentially complaints, um, about other high [01:01:00] ranking Scientologists.

[01:01:01] Adam Cox: So she complains about Tom Cruise and even David Miscavige. Uh, because Leah is, you know, willing to call things out when it doesn't feel right. But that does not end well for her. She is sent to Florida for quote unquote, reprogramming for three or four months. And that's like 12 hours a day that she has to endure this.

[01:01:19] Adam Cox: Dang! Um, she said that numerous Scientologists filed written reports against her for disrupting the wedding. Um, and even Holmes, Katie Holmes, had said, I was dismayed at the behavior of Leah Remini during the events at our wedding . The behavior, as a guest and a friend, was dismal.

[01:01:35] Adam Cox: was very upsetting.

[01:01:37] Kyle Risi: She's changed her tune since Dawson's Creek, hasn't she? I know. God damn it,

[01:01:42] Adam Cox: babe. Get back in the

[01:01:43] Kyle Risi: creek.

[01:01:44] Adam Cox: But I think once she's left Scientology, she said like, actually, I'm wrong. I only wish Leah Remini well. So it was just something perhaps she said that,

[01:01:49] Kyle Risi: like, exactly.

[01:01:50] Kyle Risi: She had to do

[01:01:50] Kyle Risi: that.

[01:01:51] Adam Cox: So interrogation sessions that Leah had to go through almost pushed her into a mental breakdown. Um, she basically had to have a re education [01:02:00] program and it cost her hundreds of thousands of dollars. Oh, she had to pay for it? Yeah, of course. Fuck. Of course you do.

[01:02:05] Adam Cox: They need to make some coin. Basically, you can't openly express disaffection. Basically, you can't openly express any dissatisfaction with Scientology services without basically being interrogated. It's a bit like Big Brother.

[01:02:16] Kyle Risi: Mmm.

[01:02:16] Adam Cox: So Leah ended up losing so much money to Scientology during this period, but she kept on going.

[01:02:21] Adam Cox: Um, she even sent expensive apology gifts to Tom Cruise and other Scientologists to try and make amends. Um, but over the next six years, um, she just couldn't get in touch with Shelley, and she sent letter after letter, and Where's she sending these letters to? I don't know, actually. Um, but then on, you know, June the 25th, 2007, uh, Shelly's father, Maurice, passes away.

[01:02:42] Kyle Risi: Okay.

[01:02:43] Adam Cox: And to those that knew Shelly, this was somewhat of a relief because for the first time in around a year and a half, Shelly is seen in public. Okay. Attending her father's funeral. Okay,

[01:02:53] Kyle Risi: so she's not dead.

[01:02:54] Kyle Risi: She's not

[01:02:55] Adam Cox: dead.

[01:02:55] Kyle Risi: Who's seen her though, and what's the evidence?

[01:02:57] Adam Cox: I guess there's photos, or there's a number of [01:03:00] people that are attending her father's funeral, and they're like, oh, there's Shelly Miscavige. Okay. What year was this? 2007. So it's about a year and a half after she disappeared and was seen being escorted away.

[01:03:09] Kyle Risi: Right. Okay.

[01:03:10] Adam Cox: Um, she's also, um, got like almost like a, an assistant, but it feels like a security guard that's keeping her in check. And the brief public appearance kind of throws a spanner in the works to those trying to understand what's happened to Shelley some had speculated that something had happened to her before Tom Cruise's wedding.

[01:03:26] Adam Cox: Um, but here she was, you know, alive and relatively well. I'm

[01:03:29] Kyle Risi: surprised they didn't criticise her for li Oh! You come to your dad's funeral, but you didn't come to Tom Cruise's wedding.

[01:03:35] Adam Cox: Yeah.

[01:03:35] Kyle Risi: Oh, what does that say about you?

[01:03:37] Adam Cox: This isn't the funeral of the century.

[01:03:38] Kyle Risi: Katie Holmes would be really dismayed.

[01:03:42] Adam Cox: Um, at her father's funeral, a former Scientologist approaches Shelley in the bathroom, asking for help with an urgent matter.

[01:03:50] Adam Cox: And the woman had, um, just been declared a suppressive person and didn't know what to do. So Shelley responded, Listen to me. I fucked up. I'm not going to be able to help [01:04:00] you. And that is considered one of the last things that she ever said to someone. That we know about. At

[01:04:04] Kyle Risi: least I fucked up. I'm not gonna be able to help you.

[01:04:06] Adam Cox: Yeah. So she is, even though she was so high up herself, she is now in serious shit with Scientology.

[01:04:13] Kyle Risi: Right. So she basically is saying like, I don't have the ranking that you think I do anymore. Yeah, sorry.

[01:04:17] Adam Cox: Pretty much. And then just as quickly as she reappeared, she disappears again. Uh, that is until 2010.

[01:04:25] Adam Cox: When, um, Shelly renews her driver's license at the Department for Motor Vehicles in West Covina, West Covina, California.

[01:04:32] Kyle Risi: Okay.

[01:04:33] Adam Cox: And you can search for the photo online. If you look at the photo of her compared to when she's, you know, seen in public in the early 2000s. Yeah. She does look a little bit more gone, a bit tired, worn out, but she is alive.

[01:04:45] Kyle Risi: It's because she's licking stamps all day. Hard, 12 years hard labour licking stamps.

[01:04:50] Adam Cox: Um, but this photo would become the last known photo of Shelley Miscavige and that's 14 years ago. And the thing is, like, you're expected to renew your driver's licence every [01:05:00] years in America. And her driver's licence has not been renewed that we're aware of since then.

[01:05:06] Kyle Risi: Shit. And is there like a public record where you can check that out? I

[01:05:10] Adam Cox: think so. Yeah. So Leah Remini is still not getting answers. And so in 2013, she makes the bold decision to leave Scientology, but walking away is not easy. Um, because You know, she's forced to cut ties with the people that she knows. Um, she's attacked relentlessly by the church.

[01:05:26] Adam Cox: They label her a liar, discredit her publicly. And they put up websites and release statements calling her motives selfish and accusing her of spreading lies. One of the first things Leah does, uh, when she leaves is she files a missing person report for Shelley and the media frenzy around it is kind of crazy straight away.

[01:05:43] Adam Cox: Uh, and involving the police is a huge problem for Scientology because they believe everything should be handled internally. And so as soon as, uh, the report is filed, the LAPD set up a meeting with someone claiming to be Shelley. Arranged by her lawyer. The meeting take places at a coffee shop in California on [01:06:00] August the eighth, 2013, LAPD.

[01:06:02] Adam Cox: Detectives, check the woman's ID and take her fingerprints before leaving.

[01:06:06] Kyle Risi: Well, they didn't check her, um, driver's license 'cause that's expired.

[01:06:10] Adam Cox: Oh no. That might still be in date in 2013. However, when the fingerprints were sent to the, the LAPD lab, they couldn't conclusively match them to Shelly's, um, driving records.

[01:06:20] Adam Cox: Apparently the prints weren't taken properly and that's either because the detective wasn't trained, or, um, they just didn't know how to take fingerprints. I mean, that

[01:06:29] Kyle Risi: could be plausible, right? How hard is it? Yeah, but they're doing it, A, normally you get your fingerprints done at the station, right?

[01:06:35] Kyle Risi: Have they done these fingerprints in the coffee shop? Yeah. Maybe it's not usual, maybe it's not the right people, the usual people that do it. They're just trying their best. That's kind of plausible.

[01:06:44] Adam Cox: Or, they weren't her fingerprints at all.

[01:06:46] Kyle Risi: Or they weren't her fingerprints, yes. And this is where conspiracy is born out of.

[01:06:51] Adam Cox: Yeah. So despite this, the LAPD didn't try to retake the fingerprints, and instead they just closed the case and removed Shelley from the missing persons database, declaring [01:07:00] that actually the report by Leah is unfounded. Uh. Shelley is not missing. But it gets even stranger because although the case was closed, the LAPD still asked the coffee shop for its security footage from the day of that meeting.

[01:07:14] Kyle Risi: Oh.

[01:07:15] Adam Cox: And the shop complied and sent over the footage from all the cameras. But when the police reviewed it, they found that the footage had been scrambled to the point where you couldn't make out anything.

[01:07:24] Kyle Risi: Hang on. Why the coffee shop? The coffee shop has scrambled it.

[01:07:29] Adam Cox: Or someone has intersected. Oh,

[01:07:31] Kyle Risi: has already intercepted it.

[01:07:33] Kyle Risi: Interesting.

[01:07:35] Adam Cox: And so, yeah. I mean that

[01:07:36] Kyle Risi: sounds really conspiratorial. It does. You wouldn't go and scramble the footage and then leave the footage there, right? It would just destroy the whole footage or it would just be gone. Yeah. Not spend the time scrambling it.

[01:07:46] Adam Cox: And also I think the detective that was supposedly investigating this has now passed away.

[01:07:50] Kyle Risi: I mean,

[01:07:51] Adam Cox: people do die. Yes, I know. They're allowed to, you know. But we can't check what actually happened.

[01:07:55] Kyle Risi: Sure.

[01:07:56] Adam Cox: So now we know Scientologists are very private, but to me, this [01:08:00] smells like a cover up. And whether Shelley attended that day in the coffee shop or not, someone is trying to like cover something ,

[01:08:07] Kyle Risi: yeah, for sure.

[01:08:09] Kyle Risi: Like, if they want all this to go away, because they seem to have the control, all the control in the world. If they want all this to go away, and it's bad, because it's not good for their PR, right? There's this big question that's very much forefront in the media, where the hell is Shelley Miscavige? Just show her on television once.

[01:08:29] Kyle Risi: Just roll her out, bring her out. All you need to do, or just have her sitting next to David Miscavige somewhere, even against her will.

[01:08:36] Adam Cox: Well, like tied up and with like,

[01:08:37] Kyle Risi: yeah, well, it's like mouth

[01:08:39] Adam Cox: taped up,

[01:08:39] Kyle Risi: maybe not, but like, you can force her to kind of sit down and be caught on camera somewhere. We'll have some photographs of her.

[01:08:45] Kyle Risi: But the thing is, in the world that we're living now with all these AI photographs, I wouldn't be surprised if they do orchestrate something like that and then go,

[01:08:51] Adam Cox: Oh, look, she's alive. But then people will look into the was it the digital fingerprint of that footage and know as AI

[01:08:57] Kyle Risi: It's getting hotter and hotter, [01:09:00] Adam.

[01:09:00] Adam Cox: So, the LAPD never followed up with Shelly Miscavige again, despite the questionable fingerprints and the CCTV footage, and, speculation, uh, is, uh, there's speculation that Scientology , uh, well they're in cahoots with the LAPD. Um, because the LAPD has a long history of corruption. And it's widely known that Scientology's Celebrity Centre regularly holds fundraisers for the LAPD.

[01:09:23] Adam Cox: Leading some to wonder that actually, yeah, they're kind of corrupt. connected in some way or another. And Leah Remini herself has pointed out the irony in this situation because when she was growing up in Scientology, she was taught that the police were bad in line with the church's beliefs. But after leaving, she turned to law enforcement expecting them to be the good guys, yet they weren't.

[01:09:41] Adam Cox: She now suspects that some within LAPD have ties with Hollywood and Scientology, and so if you're in Scientology yourself and you want to escape, knowing that the church is connected to these big institutions, it must seem near impossible, like you say, to escape.

[01:09:56] Kyle Risi: 100%.

[01:09:58] Adam Cox: That said, it's obviously [01:10:00] really easy to fall for a conspiracy theory, and it's entirely possible that the LAPD did meet with Shelley and she just expressed a desire to remain hidden from public, and they would have to be obligated to respect that, and in such cases, they wouldn't reveal her location or show her photo, they'd just need to confirm that, you know, case is closed.

[01:10:17] Kyle Risi: But no, I don't agree with that. Again, I'll go back to what I said. Like, yeah, they may need to adhere to her wishes, but As we've seen, an individual's needs and wants and desires do not outweigh their needs. What's good for the church? And what's good for the church, for their PR, their image and all that, is to present that she is alive.

[01:10:40] Kyle Risi: And there's no doubt in my mind that they would have done that if they could, but the fact that they haven't says she could be dead .

[01:10:47] Adam Cox: Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because I think others that have been held captive in the hole have kind of resurfaced. So Leah pointed out that several high ranking members Held in the hole.

[01:10:59] Adam Cox: But, um, [01:11:00] they were then brought out onto TV onto CNN. Um, so they were washed, showered. They came out and said like, oh, it's a load of old bollocks. We are fine. And then they're happily go back to the hole afterwards.

[01:11:11] Kyle Risi: Great. And that's fine. Like, okay, that doesn't excuse what's happened. Mm-Hmm. But, but the church has shown that they're willing to do that, right?

[01:11:16] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Just to quiet and down some rumors. Exactly. Do the same for Shelly, why she's the most famous woman. in Scientology.

[01:11:24] Adam Cox: Yeah, but isn't that mad that you're willing, , to kind of go back to the hole. you don't speak out though You don't like secretly slide a note to someone. Well, the thing is that

[01:11:33] Kyle Risi: when you're in the hole and you have nothing, you almost like have nothing to lose, but you do because you also have a family.

[01:11:39] Kyle Risi: On the outside and that's probably the thing that they threatened, right? Yeah, don't do this. This person will be sacked. We will pull some strings here. We'll excommunicate X, Y and Z. They're doing it for the family.

[01:11:50] Adam Cox: Mm hmm. And the thing is like people that were in the hole between 2006 and 2016 that have left Scientology have said Shelly definitely wasn't there around that time.[01:12:00]

[01:12:00] Adam Cox: So whether she's in the hole now You know, that's a good period, 10 years, where she wasn't seen at like, one of their headquarters. One clue to her still being alive though, is that she is still registered to vote in California as recently as 2017. However, can that be easily fudged?

[01:12:16] Kyle Risi: Well, how is she registering to vote if her driver's license has expired?

[01:12:19] Adam Cox: Um, there's some records, um, that she is able to still vote. However, if that's manipulated by the LAPD, the LAPD. Who knows? Many believe Shelley is alive, but being kept at the Church of Spiritual Technology, um, which is a specific headquarters in California. And multiple sources, including investigative journalists, um, have said that she's been there since 2005.

[01:12:40] Kyle Risi: Licking stamps.

[01:12:41] Adam Cox: Licking stamps. Uh, and it's a remote and heavily guarded location surrounded by cameras and spite fences. Although, interestingly, the spite, uh, Although, interestingly, the spikes face inward, suggesting they're designed to keep people in rather than out. In rather than out, yes.

[01:12:54] Kyle Risi: Oh, God.

[01:12:55] Adam Cox: Then there's the possibility that Shelley remains a devout Scientologist, and we don't know for sure if she's [01:13:00] tried leaving the church, um, or anything like that, but she was always committed to Scientology. She followed L. Ron Hubbard before she married David. So, could it be that she's happy to basically, I don't know, follow suit, do whatever Scientology says.

[01:13:14] Adam Cox: Um, they say that she could be working on storing the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard in underground bunkers because I think he's written on like these metal plates that are stored in like this secure area with, uh, Yeah, that's what

[01:13:26] Kyle Risi: the, Technology Center is for, right?

[01:13:29] Kyle Risi: It's about preserving the canon of the church and where all the official documents and the original copies are in the archives.

[01:13:36] Adam Cox: Exactly. I think it's so they can continue those teachings. So if there's a fire, war, nuclear war, they can live on. And I think they're in these protective gases and stuff like that.

[01:13:44] Adam Cox: Yeah. It's also possible that Shelley's removal was strategic because David Miscavige allegedly told high level executives that their marriage was over after she disappeared. Some speculate that her actions, like moving his belongings and stuff like that, um, was interpreted as DON'T TOUCH MY

[01:13:59] Kyle Risi: [01:14:00] THINGS!

[01:14:00] Adam Cox: Remini once said that David Miscavige allegedly, and a lot of allegedly here, remarked something like, I had to hide Shelley so she wouldn't be subpoenaed by suppressive persons. Because Shelley knows more about Scientology and David's actions than anyone else. And so, if some, One was to summon her to court and she had to like, I don't know, be a whistleblower or comment on some of the things that had happened.

[01:14:21] Adam Cox: She could potentially dismantle the church as we know it.

[01:14:25] Kyle Risi: Sure, and I get that. And what, what that just tells me is he's just given us a motive for murdering her. Because, a subpoena, you can hide her, but if they can find her, they can still subpoena her. The idea is that they were that worried about being subpoenaed, and her having to go to court and being forced to reveal all these secrets, what's a better thing to do than that?

[01:14:45] Kyle Risi: Just kill her, right? Make sure they can't find her, if they do find her, then they can't subpoena her, because why? She's dead.

[01:14:52] Adam Cox: Yeah, and she knows too much because, um, I think one of the things, uh, that you also alluded to was the fact that, um, she could,

[01:14:57] Adam Cox: alluded to earlier was the fact that, uh, um, she knows what [01:15:00] happens after OT levels 8. Because if you think about it, um, Scientologists have been promised that they, they, they're going to really lead, because if you think about it, Scientologists have been promised to have these godlike powers, uh, if they follow all the OT levels and all the rules and stuff like that.

[01:15:10] Adam Cox: But if you've paid out like hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions at this point, you're at OT level eight and you're like, I can't move things with my mind. I still feel like I'm in my human body. Yeah, do you know what? Then they're gonna be like, um, what's next?

[01:15:22] Kyle Risi: Exactly, but the thing is though, it's different.

[01:15:24] Kyle Risi: Because you only have a very few people that have reached over OT level 8. Or whatever, I think Tom Cruise has won. And the reality is that, yes, he doesn't have special powers. So he obviously knows. that there's nothing after that. So what isn't for him? Well, to get to OT level eight or nine or above or whatever it might be, comes with extraordinary power and privilege.

[01:15:47] Kyle Risi: And that's the thing, right? But they can't give that extraordinary power and privilege to everyone. So they tell them that it's magical powers, but then when they get there, if they're lucky enough to get there, then it's like, you know what, something even [01:16:00] better.

[01:16:00] Adam Cox: It's privilege. Oh, thank God. You

[01:16:02] Kyle Risi: can have that last sausage roll.

[01:16:04] Kyle Risi: on that tray at the buffet.

[01:16:07] Adam Cox: I would be pissed. That's yours. I would be pissed if that was all it was. I wouldn't

[01:16:08] Kyle Risi: be. I'd be like, Damn. No one else. Can have their sausage roll?

[01:16:12] Adam Cox: you get to level eight and you go like, I've learned everything and I know that this has been a waste of time.

[01:16:17] Kyle Risi: Okay. Right. John Travolta, right? He is apparently got the status of cacah. I want to kind of say that like, Cacah! Yeah, like a vulture or something. And that means that he has license to essentially kill. Right? No questions asked. Whoever is around will have to clean that up. I would take that. If, if there was, if real powers weren't a possibility, I would take that over and think.

[01:16:39] Kyle Risi: Not that I would execute it. People knew that I could if I wanted

[01:16:42] Adam Cox: to, you know. Maybe. And get that sausage roll. Maybe that's enough. for that sausage roll and the killing powers, um, but what some say is that in, um, those headquarters where, like, those scriptures are stored on metal plates and, like, heavily secured, that actually they are the, um, the OT levels 9 to 15, [01:17:00] where you'd get these extra powers and all these other learnings .

[01:17:03] Adam Cox: They're just not public yet.

[01:17:04] Kyle Risi: But we've said the word yet. Yeah. Because they're due to be.

[01:17:07] Adam Cox: Well, this is kind of what maybe David Miscavige is trying to peddle, saying, Oh, we've got them, we'll release them when they're good and ready. We've discovered

[01:17:13] Kyle Risi: them on these, on these golden blitz!

[01:17:16] Adam Cox: Or, David Miscavige knew that L. Ron Hubbard never finished these OT levels, and he's now buying time to go like, uh, okay, we're supposed to deliver on levels 9 to 15. Listen, I've seen

[01:17:27] Kyle Risi: one of the OT levels, OT level 3. It's a single page, That's double typed, double spaced. Bitch, it's been years. You can't come up with five pages of OT levels that mean absolutely nothing and just covered in bullshit.

[01:17:43] Adam Cox: But yeah, the thing is though, they've got to be really good levels because they've got to What are they going to do? You're going to become a spirit or like float away from your mortal body. Yeah, but writing that

[01:17:50] Kyle Risi: down doesn't make it a thing, right? That's not what they're buying their time for. No, but they can't actually do it.

[01:17:55] Adam Cox: Deliver on that promise. No,

[01:17:57] Kyle Risi: they never will be able to, right?

[01:17:58] Adam Cox: Yeah, well, that's [01:18:00] the thing. So that's why he's like saying they're stored hidden away. Saying, yeah, we'll get to levels 9, but just not yet because they can't actually deliver.

[01:18:07] Kyle Risi: Right.

[01:18:07] Adam Cox: Or, David Miscavige thinks, L.

[01:18:11] Adam Cox: Ron Hubbard is going to return and complete those levels. And so he's just buying time until L. Ron Hubbard is back to finish the job. You know he's

[01:18:17] Kyle Risi: not actually going to return, right?

[01:18:19] Adam Cox: I know that. Does David?

[01:18:21] Kyle Risi: Yeah, oh come on, he knows. Well, he

[01:18:22] Adam Cox: either knows or he's so into it that, I don't know, he believes his own crap.

[01:18:26] Kyle Risi: No, he just has to maintain this brainwashed Brainwashing amongst all the other Scientologists. He knows. He knows what he's done. He knows his kind of Stolen the church kind of leadership role. He knows that he has this kind of this thing that he needs to maintain

[01:18:41] Adam Cox: Mm

[01:18:41] Kyle Risi: hmm. He needs to hold on to power. He knows.

[01:18:43] Kyle Risi: Yeah,

[01:18:44] Adam Cox: and Shelly knows and so that's the thing Perhaps that's why they either want to hide her or bump her off.

[01:18:50] Kyle Risi: Hmm. I don't know

[01:18:52] Adam Cox: So yeah, Shelly's disappearance raises questions that only she knows And so Ultimately, Shelley's disappearance raises questions about what she knows, her loyalty, and how far David Miscavige would go [01:19:00] to protect his power.

[01:19:01] Adam Cox: Whether she's hiding out, or willing to protect the church, or she's being held against her will, or she's dead, remains one of the biggest mysteries of Scientology. Um, but at the end of the day, Shelley is just one piece of a much larger, darker puzzle to Scientology. Too

[01:19:15] Kyle Risi: big of a puzzle.

[01:19:16] Adam Cox: And

[01:19:17] Adam Cox: that is the story of Scientology's power couple and the disappearance of Shelley Miscavige.

[01:19:23] Kyle Risi: there would

[01:19:23] Kyle Risi: be this whole big conspiracy and there'd be all this evidence, but, I don't know, you still haven't really answered the question, right? Because no one knows. Yeah, no, exactly. I'm not blaming you. You did a great job. But yeah, it's just, so, it's even more mysterious than it was at the beginning of this episode.

[01:19:40] Adam Cox: Yeah, I think you know, , it's interesting to talk about where is Shelley Miscavige because of all the conspiracies. But could it be as simple as actually, she's not missing, and actually she fine, but yet it makes headlines over and over again because a few people have come out and said, Oh yeah, I saw Shelley at Chipotle, she's fine, don't worry about it.

[01:19:59] Kyle Risi: Adam, someone [01:20:00] who is so obsessed, with PR and image as Scientology is. This is not good. This image is not good for them. There is a reason why they haven't put it to bed or done something about it and brought her forward and said, look, she's alive. There is a reason they are the most obsessed. Hence why anyone posts anything in the media, writes an article, whatever it might be, they come after them .

[01:20:24] Kyle Risi: But you're right. There's so many different layers to the cult of Scientology, but where are we going to go next? I think I would be interested in finding out a bit more about Tom Cruise's journey through Scientology, because how did he get involved in it?

[01:20:39] Kyle Risi: How did he get to be such good friends with David? Why is he so powerful? And are the rumours true that he is potentially taking a step away from Scientology? And if that's true, why?

[01:20:50] Adam Cox: Because he's not getting level nine.

[01:20:52] Kyle Risi: He's the probably the one of the most important celebrities that Scientology has. Because that's the reason why I think [01:21:00] you are probably are forgiving when you get to those levels and you realize oh, There is no OT level nine. There's nothing there. It's just an empty box saying I owe you one OT level Yeah, so what? .

[01:21:14] Adam Cox: So, shall we run the outro?

[01:21:16] Kyle Risi: I think we should.

[01:21:17] Adam Cox: And that's it for another episode of The Compendium. If today's apple If

[01:21:21] Kyle Risi: Apple. Apple.

[01:21:23] Adam Cox: If today's apple has tickled your curiosity, then don't forget to hit that follow button if you haven't already in your favourite podcasting app.

[01:21:31] Adam Cox: It really makes a world of difference when you do. And for those diehard listeners, next week's episode is waiting for you right on our Patreon, completely free of charge, and if you're hungry for more, then join the Certified Freaks tier and unlock an entire archive of unreleased episodes and get a sneak peek of what's coming next.

[01:21:47] Adam Cox: New episodes drop every Tuesday, and until then, remember, in a world where power thrives on secrecy, it's what's left unsaid that can change everything, and sometimes those who go missing are only waiting for the right moment to be [01:22:00] rediscovered.

[01:22:00] Kyle Risi: Ooh.

[01:22:01] Adam Cox: Like a dead body.

[01:22:02] Kyle Risi: Oh god. See you next week.