[EPISODE 26] Understanding Scientology: Beliefs, Practices, and Scandals

[00:00:00] Kyle Risi: So Leah says that, she's escorted to a secure room where the OT level three materials are kept. Okay? She describes the labyrinth of rooms that she has to go through, which are all locked and secured. When she finally gets to the room where the documents are held, she is chained to the table.

[00:00:20] Kyle Risi: She's then handed a single manila envelope with a single piece of paper in it, which she then reads in silence.  In summary, this is what it says. Oh, we actually know what it said 

[00:00:32] Kyle Risi: Welcome to the compendium, an assembly of systems, schemes and mysteries that can't be measured on an e-meter, electronic meter. 

[00:01:06] Adam Cox: Okay. Okay. Well, I have no clue what that introduction is. 

[00:01:09] Kyle Risi: Well, we'll have to wait and see then. Shall we get on with introductions? Let's do it. For those of you tuning in for the very first time, I'm your host, Kyle Rei, and I'm your 

[00:01:18] Adam Cox: co-host Adam Cox.

[00:01:20] Kyle Risi: You're listening to the Compendium and Assembly of fascinating and intriguing things.

[00:01:24] Kyle Risi: We are a weekly variety podcast where I, Kyle Reese, tell Adam Cox all about a topic that I think he'll find both fascinating and intriguing. And I think today's episode, you're definitely gonna find intriguing. Interesting. How's your week been? 

[00:01:37] Adam Cox: Good, thank you. Yeah. Um one thing I, um, found out about this week is about, um, I dunno I'm not really on TikTok, but there is, uh, an ache craze going on

[00:01:49] Kyle Risi: so what apparently parents are doing is they have their kids in the kitchen and they're filming and they say, I'm gonna crack this egg.

[00:01:56] Kyle Risi: And they're crack it on their 

[00:01:58] Kyle Risi: kids' head 

[00:01:59] Adam Cox: these poor kids. I haven't actually seen any yet. So I'm gonna after this probably have a little browse, but, um, I can't believe people are doing that to their kids and putting that up as 

[00:02:09] Adam Cox: entertainment. 

[00:02:10] Kyle Risi: It's that moment of betrayal. And the kids, they don't cry. Some of the kids are crying, but they're not crying because they've had an neck cracks in their head.

[00:02:18] Kyle Risi: 'cause it's not that sore. It's the realization that someone that they trust and love and supposed to nurture them has just done that to them. Yeah. And that they put it online. It is funny if, I can't believe you've come to today's episode with that as an all the latest things topic, but you haven't actually seen any of the videos?

[00:02:36] Adam Cox: No. Well, not yet. But the reason I know about it is apparently medical experts have been advising that you shouldn't be doing that to your child. No, because one salmonella Okay. Um, two, uh, that it could invoke some side effects such as bruising and spreading germs.

[00:02:51] Adam Cox: Um, so yeah, they're just that's the news articles that I read about it. One, um, uh, clinical director of Child and Adolescent and family Services. Some woman in New York, apparently she said as a one-off experience such as the egg prank, it's unlikely to have any long-term ramifications.

[00:03:06] Kyle Risi: So carry on. Uh, good response. But I can say out of all the medical kind of potential issues like the, and the bruising and stuff, that's nothing compared to the long-term emotional trauma. That's something this is gonna have because it is really 

[00:03:20] Adam Cox: cute. Yeah. They're gonna have to go for counseling. 

[00:03:23] Kyle Risi: Yeah, they will do. I can see how this could be. The thing that spawns the next generation of homicidal psychopath, teenagers and young adults. It all started with an egg. With an egg. So for my, uh, all the lace things this week, again, as usual, kidding. Some time browsing through Reddit. I came across this post, which the poster says I'm a male, and somehow this topic came up and I told a female friend that I have peed in the shower and I thought that everyone else did this.

[00:03:53] Kyle Risi: And she was so grossed out. And she said that she has never done this. And I told her like 99 times out of a hundred, I probably pee in the shower. And he's asking, are people peeing in the shower? 

[00:04:07] Adam Cox: This feels uh, we need to ask, read a poll.

[00:04:10] Kyle Risi: I'm ahead of you there. Okay. I asked a whole bunch by listeners really whether or not they peed in the shower. You ready for some? Okay. That's a great question and I'm honored to be part of the, uh, research. Um, Lawrence was a all time, no hesitation. I dunno if it's just me or more girls in general. I would tend to try and pee beforehand, but then if it pops up in the shower, I'm not gonna avoid it. So no qualms, no problems, Okay. And the thing is though, overwhelmingly out of a lot of the people that we spoke to, it's a divided household, right? Typically the men, no question. We in the shower. The women? No. 

[00:04:48] Kyle Risi: So we had another young lady who I wrote in, I dunno if this is a girl thing, but I genuinely have never had any feeling that I've wanted to do that. Um, whereas, little funny story for you. Nick was showering, and I, um, just opened the shower door slightly just to ask him something. I couldn't find where light bulbs were or something silly like that.

[00:05:08] Kyle Risi: Okay. And, uh, I went in and asked him and then as I closed the shower door, I was like, that selt, like that s smelled like this. It was weird. And then got the light bulb and whatever. And then later on we were watching telly and I was like, Nick, Did you pee in the shower earlier? And he went all oh. Oh, very cool. And then we had a conversation about it and he said he does it quite often. Um, and, but not anymore apparently. 'cause I've said, please don't. Okay. Please don't. So what do you do? What do you do in the shower? 

[00:05:38] Adam Cox: I have, try and avoid peeing in the shower. I don't want to do it. Um, but if I all of a sudden it comes on like relaxed, whatever, then I might do, but largely I wouldn't do it.

[00:05:48] Kyle Risi: How often does that happen? 

[00:05:50] Adam Cox: I'd imagine it's like once a month. If that. If I did that once a month. 

[00:05:53] Kyle Risi: Wow. Okay. You wanna hear a couple more? Well, well, I brought about yourself. Well, let's see what this young lady said. So she had a chat with her husband. I feel like you're just, uh, avoiding the subject then.

[00:06:04] Kyle Risi: They both agree that, um, if they need a wei prior to getting into the shower, they'll of course go to the toilet first. But peeing in the shower doesn't really bother them at all. They felt that if the urge is coming on, they'll do it. 

[00:06:15] Kyle Risi: So I did ask my mum. Oh God. So Janice Cameron, good old mum. She said without question, she reasoned the shower every time. What? She said that, yeah. You're not just making that up. No. My sister, however she said hi. Yeah. Um, to answer your question, I don't pee in the shower.

[00:06:32] Kyle Risi: Um, it's not something that I feel comfortable with. Um, it just. Doesn't feel right. It would be the same as peeing in a swimming pool or, and it would actually fill me with dread, the thought that somebody had done that. So I don't personally. Fair enough.

[00:06:50] Kyle Risi: Fair enough. Yeah. Um, who else did we had? Oh, so we had this man write in, but he also got his wife to write in separately. Okay. And this is their response. Hi Kyle, um, yeah, no peed in the shower's.

[00:07:00] Kyle Risi: Disgusting. I'll be really mad if Jay peed in the shower. Having said that, once we were on holiday in a caravan, it didn't have a toilet, but it did have a shower and I peed in the shower in the middle of the night because I didn't wanna leave the caravan and go to the manky, like composting toilet. And then Isla had a massive paddy at me.

[00:07:17] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I did. And she wouldn't go anywhere near the bathroom or the shower for the rest of the holiday. But yeah, other than that, I would never pee in a shower. And if JP peed in the shower, I'd be pretty pissed off. Hi Kyle. It uh, yeah, absolutely not. I do not pee in the shower. I don't see any reason to pee in the shower.

[00:07:31] Kyle Risi: 'cause when I get up in the morning, you don't see reason. You know, I usually need to go to the toilet straight away. I don't need to jump in the shower straight away yeah, no, I don't pee in the shower. 

[00:07:40] Kyle Risi: There you go. Fair enough. Uh, one more. As a rule, I do not pee in the shower. However, I have peed in the shower in the past. Scott said the same, although his kind of wide-eyed avoidance look at me says, uh, pretty sure he does pee in the shower regularly and he Jewish. He's too ashamed to admit it. That's the thing. 

[00:08:01] Kyle Risi: So I guess so what about, yeah, you didn't answer.

[00:08:04] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Without question. Are we in the shower every time? Gross. In fact, I would rather we in the shower than we in the toilet because then you've gotta flush the toilet. I was speaking to woman and she said she had this debate with her mother. Why? So me and mom have debated this, uh, not very much because we both agree that we do occasionally wee in the shower. I think it's quite normal. Saves flushing the toilet. Um, but I only go if I have to. Like I normally, yeah, it's not really, it's not a voluntary thing.

[00:08:32] Kyle Risi: A regular, yeah. Yeah. It's not a regular occurrence. You just go when you need to. But running water, send a signal to your bladder, right? Yeah, exactly. That's 

[00:08:39] Adam Cox: true. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like I'm not, I don't, there's nothing wrong if you do it. That's what I'm saying. But I try and avoid doing 

[00:08:45] Kyle Risi: it if I can.

[00:08:45] Kyle Risi: So yeah that's all the latest things for this week, I guess. Yeah. 

[00:08:49] Adam Cox: Good luck. Good. Yeah. Did um, you've got 

[00:08:52] Kyle Risi: their permission to play this? Oh, yes. Uh, okay. There's no gonna be no, no names. Okay. So some of the people that were, uh, that did write in are very close. Me and Adam, I dunno any of those people.

[00:09:02] Kyle Risi: So some of them were a bit of a shock to him, which is gonna make for a very interesting bank holiday Monday, tomorrow, it's, so yeah, all the latest things. So you ready for this week's topic? Yes. 

[00:09:19] Adam Cox: Let's do that. I need to get back on track. 

[00:09:21] Adam Cox: So Kyle, what are you serving up today? 

[00:09:24] Kyle Risi: So in today's episode of the Compendium, we are gonna be embarking on an intriguing exploration of Scientology.

[00:09:31] Kyle Risi: Okay. Interesting. What is your understanding of this topic? Uh, 

[00:09:35] Adam Cox: Well, to be honest, my understanding is probably quite limited. I've probably been influenced by people saying that Scientology is really weird and bad. Although I feel like it is. Yeah. Um, so I know that Tom Cruise, Alec Baldwin, uh, who, where did you 

[00:09:51] Kyle Risi: know about that one? I think it's Alec Baldwin, John Travolta. John Travolta, Elizabeth Moss. 

[00:09:54] Adam Cox: Elizabeth Moss. They're big. Um, Scientologists, I know it's got a thing with Hollywood as well. Yeah. It like the elite. So it's, I feel like it's got this kind of secret and like the, almost like the Freemasons in terms of underground I dunno, it gets you further in life if you join Scientologists.

[00:10:11] Adam Cox: Ooh, 

[00:10:11] Kyle Risi: I see. So like you get a bit of a leg up because it's all about them finding you different opportunities 

[00:10:16] Adam Cox: a little bit. And then the only other bit I know about some woman, another actress I think in America, she left it and she was sort of saying how absolutely messed up it is in terms of You have to spend a lot of money. Once you're in, it's hard to get out. But I 

[00:10:29] Kyle Risi: don't know the details. Yeah. Well, you're talking about Leah Remini there and she's actually pioneered this movement post, obviously her leaving, which is the reason why we know so much of some of the crazy things that have happened in Scientology. And I think she's in a position where she's powerful enough that they can come after her all they want. 'cause that's, they have a big history of this. But she's famous enough that she'll just tell the world. Yeah. So they have to oh, well, we've gotta back off a bit. Yeah. 

[00:10:56] Kyle Risi: Now, the thing is though, out of all the different podcasts and documentaries that I've seen, they all seem to focus on a really small aspect of it. So it's gonna be impossible for us to cover everything in just one episode. So I thought, let's go general for our first episode, let's give a an overview of what Scientology is all about.

[00:11:14] Kyle Risi: And then that leaves the door open for us to really hone in onto some of the interesting aspects in future episodes.

[00:11:20] Kyle Risi: So it was founded by a guy called Al Ron Hubbard in the 1950s. And it is a belief system that is quite frankly, in my opinion, really messed up.

[00:11:27] Kyle Risi: As you've also said as well. Like you think it's bad? It is pretty bad. Okay. And the 

[00:11:32] Adam Cox: 1950s, that's not that long ago, was what? 

[00:11:34] Kyle Risi: 80 years old? Oh yeah. It's not an old religion at all. Okay. Um, and of course it's over the years it's captivated millions. But the question is, what exactly is Scientology? Is it a religion, a philosophy, or something else entirely like a cult, right? Yeah. Because you get a lot of people saying there's cult mentalities there. 

[00:11:51] Kyle Risi: But because it's the first episode, let's focus on what Scientology is, what they believe in, some of their core concepts within Scientology, its origins. And also let's learn a bit more about the founder himself, Al Ron Hubbard, and what it takes for an ordinary Scientologist to level up, like in a video game.

[00:12:12] Kyle Risi: Okay. Because that's what this is like. It's just mental, the hoops and the levels that these people have to go through. Just to get somewhere. It's mental. 

[00:12:23] Kyle Risi: Adam, before we dive into the history, let's first pause to examine some Scientology more surface elements. Alright.

[00:12:32] Kyle Risi: Are we scratching the surface here at the Canadian scratching the surface? It's important that we understand a few concepts. Because I think this will make it easier for us to dive in if we first understand some of these basic concepts around Scientology and its core beliefs. 

[00:12:44] Kyle Risi: Let's start with something that is known amongst Scientologists as dietetics. Dietetics, which is basically a self-help system that L Ron Hubbard creates and releases to the world in a book that's published in the 1950s.

[00:12:59] Kyle Risi: Now, dietetics is a complex methodology that claims to cleanse the human mind. Of hidden traumas called ngrams. That's another term that I'm gonna explain in a second. Now, this is carried out through a process known as auditing, and when Scientologists rid themselves of these ngrams, it gradually leads a Scientologists to a state called Clear.

[00:13:25] Adam Cox: So it sounds a bit like absolving themself of certain sins. 

[00:13:28] Kyle Risi: Rather than sins. Traumas. Traumas. Okay. Yeah. This concept of dianetics is what will eventually evolve into Scientology. Essentially, El Ron Hubbard himself transforms a self-help book into, what is this global religion called Scientology today.

[00:13:43] Kyle Risi: Which is just incredible when you think about it, right? Imagine for a second. Brian Griffin, do you remember in Family Guy when he creates that self-help book? Wish It, want It Do it. Yeah. And then you're taking that, and then you're essentially creating an entire global religion out of that. That's essentially what he's done. Oh, okay. Which is just messed up. Yeah. So the word Scientology comes from the Latin for knowing in its fullest sense of the word. And the second part is Greek to study, which symbolizes the path to enlightenment and spiritual freedom. Now, throughout its history, Scientology has been criticized for, its of course, authoritarian control.

[00:14:19] Kyle Risi: Its bullying, subjugation, and also the substantial financial burdens that it places on followers that may of course lead many to believe that actually this is just a cult. You know? So let's take a look at some of the key concepts. And that formed the foundation of what Scientologists believe.

[00:14:37] Kyle Risi: These ideas are not merely theoretical, by the way. These are literally the building blocks on which Scientology has been created or constructed. So first up, I present something that is absolutely at the center of what Scientologists believe, and that is the thein. Now a thein is the equivalent of the soul, and thetans are said to be immortal entities, which over their vast evolution had transcended this need for a physical form.

[00:15:09] Kyle Risi: But at some point in that history, they find themselves becoming infused with humans and have since lived attached to. Humans across countless lives. Up until the beginning of when human beings even evolved

[00:15:23] Adam Cox: Do I have a thetan?

[00:15:25] Kyle Risi: Yes. Okay. You have Now it's unclear about how many thetans you have. I've got multiple thetans. I think so. And now I'll come clear later on when we dive into some of the revelations that Leah Remini announces. What? What are their names? Well, I don't, I dunno. I don't, I've never met them. No. They've been very quiet.

[00:15:42] Kyle Risi: Howly. There's trillions of them. There's trillions of them. Trillions. Wow. They are essentially the essence of a person. They are more vital than your flesh and blood. Like a soul. But more than that. Okay. All right.

[00:15:53] Kyle Risi: Now let's move on to the concepts of ngrams. Now these are. The mental snapshots of painful events from a thetans past and their present lives. Now in Scientology, they say that the Engram influences our every emotion and even our physical health. The mission of a Scientology is to clear the mind of these engrams, and again, as I said, reach this level of clear.

[00:16:17] Kyle Risi: Scientologists can achieve a state of clear through auditing, which helps the Scientologists rid themselves of these grams and essentially cures them auditing is conducted through sessions with an auditor who will then ask you specific questions while you are connected to what a Scientologist calls an e-meter. The auditor uses the e-meter to hunt for these ngrams, and when they find these ngrams, they neutralize them. That's the gist of essentially auditing and these ngrams and getting rid of you, making you clear.

[00:16:48] Kyle Risi: And is this like a 

[00:16:49] Adam Cox: device that they're using to Correct. And what does it look like? 

[00:16:53] Kyle Risi: I'm gonna show you that in a minute. Okay. So the e-meter was invented by a Ron Hubbard himself. And it works by measuring the electrical resistance in the skin, which is set to pick up upon kind of mental changes in the patient while they are undergoing this auditing process to find these ngrams.

[00:17:10] Kyle Risi: And basically you hold onto these sensors of the emme during these auditing sessions, right? So I do have an image of you. 

[00:17:18] Adam Cox: Oh, it looks more modern than I thought it was gonna be. Maybe it's a modern version

[00:17:23] Adam Cox: So you've got a pair of hands who, which are holding these kind of metal cylinders, I guess is the best way. Almost like a pepper shaker, but not like that, but that kind of thing. They call them the 

[00:17:33] Kyle Risi: cans. The cans. You're holding the cans.

[00:17:35] Kyle Risi: Yeah. But 

[00:17:36] Adam Cox: that's what they look like. Um, they're connected to two wires which go into this machine. It's got a few dials on, but it's got one of those, what are those things called? Which like tick A needle. A needle, yeah. Almost like it's gonna assume detect your grams or whatever and it's gonna like flicker up and down as it detects them.

[00:17:54] Kyle Risi: That's essentially it. Yeah. And I dunno what the other stuff do, but they use this essentially to find these grams and then neutralize them. How they neutralize them and it's not quite clear. 

[00:18:02] Adam Cox: Yeah, I was just about to ask that. Zap them somehow. 

[00:18:05] Kyle Risi: I think it's just through the therapy positive. Oh, we can't say the word therapy and I'll explain why in a minute.

[00:18:10] Kyle Risi: Now the cost of reaching clear is not just a meta kind metaphorical journey, but it's also very expensive journey too. Because as a Scientologist you are required to progress through various levels of auditing, following what they call the Bridge to Freedom framework. Bridge to freedom. We'll explain it all later, but Right. 

[00:18:28] Kyle Risi: That's what they have to do. And of course, this takes years and can cost upwards of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Now, These levels that they have to level up through are called operating theon levels or OT levels for short.

[00:18:42] Kyle Risi: Now, these levels are supposed to represent higher states of spiritual awareness and abilities. The ultimate level of these levels is OT eight, which is like the pinnacle of spiritual attainment. But reaching it of course requires extensive auditing and of course a shit ton of money, so now we have a new concept I'm gonna give to you and that is the Sea Organization.

[00:19:06] Kyle Risi: Commonly they are referred to as the sea org and they are literally the church's military function, right? Imagine a navy uniforms, hats white uniforms doing labor, saluting, so members quite literally sign a billion year contract to sign in the sea org.

[00:19:22] Kyle Risi: They are responsible for the highest levels of church management and its operations, and it's known for its wild disciplinary methods. They are just brutal. And we're gonna cover some of those stuff as well in a minute. So these concepts, while they're fascinating, might leave you with more questions than answers.

[00:19:40] Kyle Risi: At this point. Eaton's and Graham's auditing, these are all things that have been constructed and woven together by a Ron Hubbard himself, and to understand these concepts in more detail. I think the biggest bulk of this podcast should be focusing on a Ron Hub himself and his life, and how he came to create this shit show called Scientology because it's just mental.

[00:20:06] Kyle Risi: Yeah. 

[00:20:06] Adam Cox: Yeah. It's you, what It sounds like almost like a real life board game. In terms of that, you have to get rid of your grams, you then do some stuff to then progress a level. And then you win. 

[00:20:17] Kyle Risi: Yeah it's a, the game of life people, they invest their whole life in everything they do all their free time, everything. Scientology doing all of this stuff, paying more money. 

[00:20:26] Kyle Risi: So l Ron Hubbard, he was born, uh, as Ron Hubbard on the 13th of March in 1911 in Nebraska. And the L was added later to make him sound a bit more literary.

[00:20:37] Kyle Risi: Oh really? Yeah. It was a thing back then with like authors and things like that. So his father was Harry Ross Hubbard, and he was a lieutenant in the Navy. Now re's father's naval career. The family moved from place to place, from like Guam to San Diego, to Seattle, and even Washington, DC now as a child, L Ron was heavily influenced by stories his father would tell about his time in the Navy.

[00:21:00] Kyle Risi: And this fascination. Would play a significant role in shaping his worldview as an adult later on. Now, L Ron kept dozens of journals where he would create these grandiose stories from his own imaginary adventures. And at 18 L Ron tried to join the Navy, but he's rejected after failing his entrance exams and is also rejected due to the fact that he's shortsighted as well.

[00:21:24] Kyle Risi: So failing to get in, he decides that he's gonna drop outta college, and this is where he meets his first wife, Polly, at a Maryland kind of airfield. Now at the time, he starts to dabble in freelance journalism and eventually starts writing kind of something called pulp fiction. So these are like these quirky little mass marketed action pack stories that were really popular in the time, especially in place of not having any television.

[00:21:47] Kyle Risi: So by 1933 l Ron Hubbard, Had become quite the successful writer. Earning a penny per word. He was really good at writing across various different genres like westerns, detective stories, exotic adventures, and even romance. However, when it comes to writing sex scenes, he's not good. And in his really early journals, when he's like 14, you can see his attempts of trying to write sex scenes, but there's large sections that are just really aggressively scratched out because like he knows what sex is, but he's no idea what's supposed to happen. 

[00:22:19] Adam Cox: Just draw some pictures and Yeah. Figure out the 

[00:22:21] Kyle Risi: rest. So he's um, maybe this happens, but maybe not.

[00:22:25] Kyle Risi: So he's writing this at 14? Wow. That's, I guess you have the desire of 14, but you just dunno what makes a compelling sex story when you're 14 if you're not seeing it. No. Poor Ron. So even after he does become sexually active, he can't quite capture the nuances of a compelling kind of sex scene.

[00:22:41] Kyle Risi: But this is not to say that he wasn't good at sex because according to some he was quite adept at understanding kind of the female anatomy apparently, but he just wasn't very good at writing about it. So avoid those. Have you ever come across some of his writings, eh?

[00:22:54] Kyle Risi: The sex scenes a bit? Eh, so he then joins this fiction guild in New York, which is basically a collection of 300 or so fiction writers, and he gains a bitter reputation as a bullshitter. And one of the other guild members called Frank Gruber, I think is how you pronounce that, says that Al Ron was describing how he was.

[00:23:15] Kyle Risi: A US Marine for seven years. Then he was an Amazon Explorer for four years, and then he became a big game hunter in Africa for three years and so on. So he like to 

[00:23:25] Adam Cox: talk about himself and his achievements and everything. Yeah. Yeah. Did 

[00:23:27] Kyle Risi: he actually do all those things? Well, so Frank goes, so you must be like 83, right?

[00:23:31] Kyle Risi: And L Ron is like, what, 83? And he's that's how old you'd have to be to have done all those things. And of course, this does not sit well with L Ron, who is notoriously sensitive to any kind of criticism so between 1935 and 1936, L Ron moves to Hollywood to try and make it as a screenwriter.

[00:23:51] Kyle Risi: And he does manage to write a couple things, but it's not really enough to sustain him financially. So he decides that he's gonna relocate to be close to his parents just outside of Seattle, where he focuses on writing novels. He also starts to get interested in marketing, and he tells his wife, Polly, I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it takes legendary form.

[00:24:17] Kyle Risi: And in many ways that's exactly what he does. What a line. Hey. Yeah. Who quoted 

[00:24:22] Adam Cox: that? 

[00:24:22] Kyle Risi: Who wrote that? Who, I think that's just what he wrote. Okay. Like he's a prolific writer, so there's lots

[00:24:27] Adam Cox: sounds like he likes himself a lot 

[00:24:28] Kyle Risi: as well. Oh my god, he's the biggest egomaniac ever. So by 1939, Al Ron has shifted his focus to science fiction and his writing ends up impressing an editor of the astounding science fiction magazine.

[00:24:42] Kyle Risi: And his stories then end up becoming like a staple of the magazine. There're in every week's edition, but by 1941 during World War ii, L Ron successfully enlists in the Navy despite obviously previously failing. I guess Mike, they need people. They need people. Yeah. So L Ron is commissioned as a junior grade lieutenant in the Naval Reserve.

[00:25:04] Kyle Risi: Which is important because later on his followers will literally write into history that he was like a master mariner and a war hero, but he's just a reserve he's actually discharged after accidentally entering into Mexican waters and using some of the islands as target practice like but after the war in 1945, L Ron finds himself back in Los Angeles and here he meets a guy called Jack Parsons. He's incredible. He is a self-taught chemist and he's also one of the very first people in the world to be meddling with kind of some of the early prototypes of rockets at Caltech University, he's got like a geld of men that he works with and they're like really pioneering at the time. But Parsons is also a massive sci-fi geek as well. He's like one of the early proponents of kind of the genre and. He also dabbles in the occult as well. He was a devotee of Alistair Crowley. Now Jack is infamous for throwing these decant parties, which include these drug fueled partner swapping orgies. And he also turns his 11 bedroom mansion into kind of this artist compound called the Parsonage, where he just invites all these really amazing like pioneers of the age to live and just be themselves.

[00:26:18] Kyle Risi: And then do it and probably do it, yeah. Probably not for that purpose, but just to surround yourself real incredible people. Okay. And he knows who El Ron Hubbard is and he loves sci-fi. Okay. So after a chance encounter with L Ron, he invites L Ron to come and live at the estate. 

[00:26:35] Kyle Risi: At this time. El Ron. He starting to wear like military uniforms all the time. Like a fucking douche bag. I don't know. Okay. I guess it's like a prestige thing 'cause you were in the Navy and then the wars ended and then you have this prestige comes with it uhhuh and you wanna be recognized for it all the time.

[00:26:51] Kyle Risi: But he was only ever just a reserved, so he is wearing these stupid uniforms. Was that quite common for the time then? I think 'cause he's such an egomaniac, right? Okay.

[00:27:00] Kyle Risi: While he's like living at the estate, he just enthralls everyone with these fantastical stories of his military adventures. Obviously never happened. I was gonna say a lot 

[00:27:10] Adam Cox: apart from what happened in Mexico. 

[00:27:12] Kyle Risi: Exactly. That's it. So for instance, he talks about how he escaped the Japanese by escaping on a raft after being shot and having all these bullet holes at him and having his feet crushed and all the bones in his feet were broken.

[00:27:23] Kyle Risi: But he managed to escape on this raft. Wow. Obviously none of this happened. What an imagination. Well, I mean, that's what he's known for, right? He's a brilliant writer. 

[00:27:31] Kyle Risi: So in 1946, L Ron convinces Jack to invest in a new business venture with him. And the arrangement is theoretically 50 50. But in reality, Jack invests 21,000 while l Ron invests like 1,200 bucks. So it's more like a 90 10 split. L Ron takes his money along with Jack's girlfriend, Sarah Northrop, and he relocates to Miami.

[00:27:53] Kyle Risi: Now the aim is to purchase luxury yachts, sell them to Los Angeles, and then sell them for a profit to Rich Californians. But L Ron ends up marrying Sarah Northrop, despite still be married to his first wife, Polly. 

[00:28:05] Adam Cox: Hang on. So he's taken his friend's wife 

[00:28:08] Kyle Risi: or girlfriend which as like a business kind of partner to help him out and 

[00:28:13] Adam Cox: then sort of cheats on his wife and she cheats on Jack. Yeah. And he gets married more than 

[00:28:19] Kyle Risi: once. He, well he's now a bigamist I think, like legally he's not technically married to Sarah, but Okay. I think maybe he ends up getting married to her, but after finally divorcing his wife, 

[00:28:28] Kyle Risi: so of course jack is pissed off and he obtains a court injunction preventing El Ron from leaving the country with his assets. And eventually El Ron is forced to pay back all of Jack's money ' cause he's obviously threatened with kind of legal action. So fast forward to 1949. El Ron sets his sight on the self-help genre in a letter to his literary agent.

[00:28:52] Kyle Risi: This is a guy called Forrest Ackerman. , L Ron states that his book would enable its readers to rape women without their knowing and communicate suicidal messages to your enemies in their sleep. 

[00:29:04] Kyle Risi: What a loser. He is a loser. So he sends this self-help book to the American Psychological Association to get their mental health endorsement. And they're basically like, well, no, and this of course infuriates him and will become a huge factor in Scientology's aggressive opposition to all forms of psychology and psychiatry later on.

[00:29:26] Kyle Risi: So in 1950, his self-help book is formally published and it's titled, dietetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health.

[00:29:34] Kyle Risi: Now, the book claims that its creation of dietetics is a milestone for humanity, which is comparable to the discovery of fire and even superior to the invention of the wheel and also the arch. So he's he's such an egomaniac comparing himself to the wheel. 

[00:29:51] Kyle Risi: So bizarrely, Dynetics is marketing itself as superior to traditional therapy and psychiatry.

[00:29:57] Kyle Risi: Again, it's not so, because what's happening is that when the American Psychological Association rejects El Ron's book, he decides that if I can't join your club, I'm literally just gonna create my own far better thing. So his book is going up against like science that has literally been around for decades.

[00:30:16] Kyle Risi: So it's a brave move, coming in to say this is better than all these scientists and these big pioneers like, Freud and Carl Jung and things like that. Also through this positioning, Ron starts developed this kind of smear campaign against all forms of psychology.

[00:30:34] Kyle Risi: And is the reason why Scientologists today are so staunchly opposed to any form of psychology or psychiatry.

[00:30:41] Adam Cox: Isn't this just a form of psychology and psychiatry 

[00:30:45] Kyle Risi: Well in the early days, L Ron claimed that Dianetics was built upon the works of these notable psychologists like Freud and Carl Jung as pioneers in the field. But in later additions, he removes this acknowledgement completely. And the reason is because he's no longer promoting a self-help book.

[00:31:01] Kyle Risi: He's starting to censor dianetics around a new religious movement. So it can't be the same as it has to be its own thing. So he can market a religion around it. 

[00:31:11] Adam Cox: Sure. But he's clearly admitted that it's been inspired by something. He, and then he's now, 

[00:31:18] Kyle Risi: yeah, he's taken this he's now saying it's not, it's his own thing altogether.

[00:31:21] Kyle Risi: I think it's 'cause he is butt hurt and also he, his clever marketing. He's trying to make it unique. Yeah. Own thing. Yeah, definitely. 

[00:31:27] Kyle Risi: Well, the fascinating distinction is between psychology and dietetics lies in their approach to the mind. Now, psychology often asserts that the mind is this intricate, delicate thing where certain neurosis can deeply embed themselves into kind of your psyche and can be really challenging to fix. But on the other hand, states that a person can be born with these mental impairments, a K, a ngrams, but dietetics can effectively cure these rather than treat them. And that's his positioning. Okay. Make sense? Yeah.

[00:31:59] Kyle Risi: So Dietetics is offering a super accessible solution that is significantly cheaper. Then years and years of therapy. A five week course of dietetics and a bunch of auditing is like $500 at a time when a therapy session with a psychiatrist is just $10. But unlike psychiatry, Dianetics promises to cure you where a psychiatry will go on for years and years and doesn't promise fix.

[00:32:24] Kyle Risi: So what are you gonna go for if you get presented with, well pay $500 or pay $10 a week for the rest of your life for the next five decades? Sure. 

[00:32:33] Kyle Risi: So by 1951, our run starts to make a bit of money from selling dietetics and begins setting up auditing centers all over the country. But he's notoriously terrible at running things and starts hemorrhaging money left right, and center.

[00:32:48] Kyle Risi: So facing potential bankruptcy. He shifts his focus to his second book titled The Signs of Survival. And in 1952, this is when he introduces the revolutionary new piece of tech called the E-meter.

[00:33:01] Kyle Risi: Here's the beautiful thing in regards to doing actually what it says it does, the e-meter. Has been part of this huge extensive legal debate over like the last, like three decades, and it's all accumulated in the federal courts, literally ordering the church to publish disclaimers. That state that the EE alone does nothing.

[00:33:24] Kyle Risi: I 

[00:33:25] Adam Cox: was just wondering what it actually does. What is actually triggering that needle and stuff. 

[00:33:30] Kyle Risi: It's measuring something electric apostle, but they have no connection to anything.

[00:33:34] Kyle Risi: No thought or anything. Thought or anything. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. It's just some kind of, um, impulse or whatever your 

[00:33:39] Kyle Risi: body's doing. Yeah, it's nothing. So literally they are forced now to disclaim or put a disclaimer on the product saying that it can't enhance health at all, and they end up saying that instead it's only used specifically for spiritual purposes only. Okay. So they have to acknowledge that by court order that it does nothing. 

[00:33:58] Kyle Risi: There's no science in this, but it's used in part of our ritual, but Right. Yeah. What message does that send? Like any actual person will be like, so it doesn't do anything.

[00:34:05] Kyle Risi: Can we just leave this outside? Yeah. Can we have just a therapy session ritual? It's just like a candle. It's some incense. Yeah. 

[00:34:11] Kyle Risi: Now, finally, in 1951, the term Scientology is coined.

[00:34:15] Adam Cox: Why Scientology? 

[00:34:16] Kyle Risi: It means the study of knowledge. So according to L Ron, while dietetics provides a way to understand the human mind, Scientology offers a part to understanding the human soul. And says that it's the thetans and signifies kind of life and its innate self. In summary, the thetans are beings that have been separated from their physical bodies over kind of eons and eons, and they are the things that ultimately created the universe.

[00:34:42] Kyle Risi: Over time, the Thetans ended up being trapped in their own creation eventually losing their original universe, creating abilities.

[00:34:50] Kyle Risi: So L Ron says that the primary goal of Scientology is to restore the lost abilities of these feats. And this is achieved through reading yourself of Ngrams through auditing and the utilization of the e-meter. So if you find that confusing, you're not alone.

[00:35:07] Kyle Risi: I was gonna say what? It's nuts. So what I'm 

[00:35:10] Adam Cox: getting is you are using the technology and the treatments to basically get rid of things that are setting or perhaps are not progressing or allowing you to progress forward or holding you back i e your reaction to maybe doing certain things 'cause of a past trauma.

[00:35:28] Adam Cox: And so by removing them from your life you are gonna be better equipped or suited to be a better person.

[00:35:35] Adam Cox: I couldn't have explained it better. 

[00:35:36] Adam Cox: Well, do you know what I gave that advice for free? 

[00:35:39] Kyle Risi: I should be charging. You should be. So in 1952 L Ron found the Hubbard Association of Scientologists, which is essentially a training facility, a book publisher, and the exclusive seller of the e-meter. That same year, he marries his third wife, 19 year old Mary Sue Whip, and also revises his biography, painting this fantastical version of himself, where he claims that he studied under monks in Asia, what volunteered in various psychiatric hospitals. Obviously, all of this is false.

[00:36:15] Adam Cox: I was gonna say he did not understand.

[00:36:17] Adam Cox: He has major control over his narrative and major control over all of Scientology and what people think and critics and everything. It's crazy. The lengths that he goes to, to rewrite history in Scientology's favor.

[00:36:29] Adam Cox: So a year later in 1953, L Ron shifts his marketing strategy. Now, instead of promoting Scientology as a less expensive alternative to traditional therapy, he is now positioning it as a premium service, suggesting that the teachings of dietetics is so good and so valuable that it warrants this higher price.

[00:36:51] Adam Cox: Okay. So he ends up franchising and he lets people buy the rights to open up their own dietetic centers, but they of course have to buy all the books and all the e meters directly from the Hubbards Association of Scientologists. So that's how he's literally making his money by getting open up these other centers and franchising the movement essentially.

[00:37:12] Adam Cox: In a letter to an early associate, he openly states that he wanted to work the religion angle of the Hubbard Association of Scientologists, admitting that it was a matter of practical business.

[00:37:24] Adam Cox: It's just incredible that despite this being in the public domain, people still believe this bullshit. Like he's openly said that it's just a matter of business. Like he needs to turn this into a religion. Yeah. To make more money is, well, 

[00:37:38] Adam Cox: as you mentioned earlier, he was really interested in marketing. This is all Yeah. Marketing. So how much of him is about making money and how much of it is actually wanting to help people?

[00:37:49] Kyle Risi: I. Well, I think a lot of it's really comes down to money. Sounds and he'll probably argue that the more money that he makes, the more he's able to help people. 

[00:37:57] Adam Cox: Yeah. But you're almost like getting this subscription service where you have to like, um, you almost like Ryanair.

[00:38:03] Adam Cox: You buy a Ryanair ticket, but then you have to pay for baggage. Yeah. And then you have to then do this for your ticket. And then everything else, you get hooked in because in order to take that service, you're like, yeah. Yeah. You have to, 

[00:38:15] Kyle Risi: yeah. Everything comes down to money. For example, someone will reach a certain level, right? And then they'll turn around, they'll get to the next level and they'll be like, oh, you failed this one. What we recommend is that you go back to level X, Y or Z, whatever, and do those courses again. But we've revised the courses and there's a whole new set of books. So we recommend you buy those books.

[00:38:35] Kyle Risi: And these books like $50,000. So then have to buy these books again. And sometimes there'll be nothing that's hardly changed. 

[00:38:41] Adam Cox: But they're like saying, oh, by doing this you'll have a much better chance of passing because yeah, that's it. Why didn't you gimme 

[00:38:47] Kyle Risi: this book in the first place? Well, because it hasn't been, it's a, yeah, it's a revised okay edition.

[00:38:53] Kyle Risi: So L Ron transforms the mental kind of science boo haki into essentially a religion, which eventually will grant Scientology tax exemption status just like any other religion really? Yeah. They don't achieve this until after he dies, I think in 1993 by David Miscavige.

[00:39:12] Kyle Risi: But they get it, and it comes with huge benefits because it also means that they don't have to disclose certain things in court. Or when investigators come in to audit their books, they can say, well, this is. Private under kind of the religious status exemption that we have, which they play the game themselves. They use the law Yeah. To help protect themselves later on as well 

[00:39:38] Adam Cox: it makes me feel like, why isn't someone like Elon Musk or, I dunno, mark Zuckerberg has said well, Facebook, it's a religion do you know what I mean? Yeah. It feels like one of those kind of people, 

[00:39:49] Kyle Risi: that argument has been made with some other people. Really? Yeah. Like the reason why they've fallen in-law not been successful is because they didn't turn their movement into a religion. Oh my word. It's crazy. Yeah. And what's crazy about. Achieving this kind of religious status is a means that these auditors do not have to meet the same educational requirements that are certified by actual real counselors. Because of course you don't need any of that if you're a religion. A pastor doesn't need a degree.

[00:40:17] Kyle Risi: So in 1954, the first Church of Scientology is opened, and L Ron insists that the other Scientology groups around the country also become churches. Which require that 10% of their gross income has to now be paid to the Hubbard Association of Scientologists. So he is now effectively functioning as the mother church. With all these different franchises underneath him. 

[00:40:41] Kyle Risi: In 1956, Scientology's income was 103,000, but by 1959 it was like 250,000. But that was literally just the beginning. By 1960, El Ron had replaced most of his initial followers, most of whom had just become like disillusioned by his teachings lightly because like it was just so weird and bizarre. Like progressively the stories were getting weird and odd and they 

[00:41:04] Adam Cox: realized you're lying. Yeah. Essentially this guy hasn't got a clue. Why am I following him The 

[00:41:09] Kyle Risi: Exactly. And the reason why it was getting so weird is because during the decade of the 1950s, he wrote a lot of really odd science fiction, which he was priming.

[00:41:18] Kyle Risi: On becoming the church's origin story. Origin story, yeah. The Christians had the bible, Muslims had the Quran, Scientology needed their own myth. That's what he's doing at this time. And people are going, this is a bit odd. 

[00:41:30] Kyle Risi: So Al Ron was becoming increasingly more and more paranoid and distrustful of his followers. And he started to implement more and more aggressive forms of auditing for his newer members. Basically, just like Jim Jones, he started like fishing for confessions.

[00:41:47] Kyle Risi: Had you ever stolen, have you ever killed anyone? Had you ever been violent? They were just relentless. And they all get recorded. And they all get used. If his followers become problematic, he'll use it against them.

[00:41:59] Kyle Risi: Blackmail. Blackmail it is. So he also works to keep church employees financially dependent, like paying them just enough to live, but not enough to save. Making it difficult for them to leave if they've decided to do so. and he would also require followers to invest huge amounts of money and time, like forging relationships inside the church.

[00:42:20] Kyle Risi: So if you had any free time, you had to be at church, right? If you weren't at work and you weren't with your family, you were at church. And the reason for this is that if your whole world is the church, if all your relationships of all your friendships, your family, et cetera, are all within the confines of the church, then if you ever decide to leave this poses a greater loss because you don't just lose your church, you lose your family, your friends. If you work for the church, you lose your job as well. And you don't get formal qualifications when you decide to work for the church. So if you decide to leave and you hit a certain level you can't just get a job. Because you don't then have the necessary qualifications to make it out in the real world. Sure. 'cause those qualifications don't exist necessarily outside of the church. Yeah. With you. 

[00:43:07] Kyle Risi: So how did Aran get away with all of this? So by many accounts, he was extraordinarily charismatic as were all cult leaders, right?

[00:43:17] Kyle Risi: So he used tried and true cult recruiting techniques, including the allure of attractive young women who he would use to like work in these recruitment centers. So promo girls, essentially. Yeah. But like more kind of sophisticated, not like hot pants. Not in hot pants, probably, right? Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe. Maybe. 

[00:43:36] Kyle Risi: So in 1964, Al Ron Hubbard is interviewed by the Saturday Evening Post, which is a real prominent publication at the time, and he genuinely believed. This would be the catalyst that reels Scientology into the mainstream. However, when the article is published, it's so critical of Scientology labeling him a modern day snake oil salesman.

[00:43:58] Kyle Risi: And this absolutely enrages him and it leads him to develop something called the fair game Policy. Right 

[00:44:07] Kyle Risi: now, under this policy, individuals considered enemies of the church, such as those who have left the organization, or anyone who actively speaks out against the church are designated as suppressive persons.

[00:44:21] Kyle Risi: Now, Scientology's website defines a suppressive person as an antisocial personality. Likening them to historical figures like literally Napoleon and Hitler. Oh my word. Right. When These are just people that just left the church and they're just, they don't agree with what you're saying. Yeah, that's it. Or someone who publishes a critical article in a newspaper about you, not someone that's 

[00:44:41] Adam Cox: committed mass genocide. 

[00:44:42] Kyle Risi: Exactly. So under the fair game policy, these people could be pursued and harassed by literally any means necessary. And that can include being sued.

[00:44:54] Kyle Risi: They will very often take you to court because they've got the power right. They've got the lawyers, they've got the money to take you to court, bankrupt you, your life is over. 

[00:45:01] Adam Cox: And what would they get you on? Because you've like almost signed a contract or whatever with the church and you're not allowed to, 

[00:45:07] Kyle Risi: they'll make up lies.

[00:45:08] Kyle Risi: It's not about whether or not it's true. It's about getting you into the court system so the court can then drain you of your finances. Wow. And even if that turns out that's not true, at the end. So what? They've got your money, so Yeah, exactly. Your life is ruined. So also like public defamation as well, they don't care if it's true or not.

[00:45:27] Kyle Risi: Relentless stalking, including phone tapping and harassment of their families, were all considered acceptable under this fair game policy. Now, apparently though, in 1968, due to various governments like Australia threatening to ban Scientology, they apparently canceled this policy. But it's all bullshit because it still goes on today.

[00:45:46] Kyle Risi: When we come onto the bit with Leah Remini later, she joins up in partnership with a guy called Mike Rinder. Now, Mike Rinder was literally working for this department, the one that would 

[00:45:57] Adam Cox: Take people down. 

[00:45:58] Kyle Risi: And he would action it all under El Ron's instructions and David Miscavige's instructions.

[00:46:03] Kyle Risi: And he's they didn't cancel it, they just called it something different. And 

[00:46:05] Adam Cox: so he's left the church, he managed to escape. Managed to escape. 

[00:46:10] Kyle Risi: Managed to escape a woman called Paulette Cooper, right?

[00:46:13] Kyle Risi: She decided to leave Scientology and published this critique title, the Scandal of Scientology. And so in retaliation, the church operatives, they tap her phone, they break into her apartment, they literally harass her nonstop. Distribute flyers that basically call her a prostitute, right? And they start framing her for a whole bunch of felonies, which almost results in have being sent to prison.

[00:46:38] Kyle Risi: Right? None of 'em are true. And when, like you watch the documentaries about Scientology, like you literally see firsthand how they harass former members that have been labeled suppressive persons. It's just not hard to believe any of these allegations when you see these firsthand accounts in these documentaries. Wow. 

[00:46:57] Kyle Risi: So during this period, L Ron acquires a collection of boats, and this is what gives birth to the notorious sea org. Now, effectively, he's forming his own naval force. However, to fit the image of the disciplined organization, the Sea Org had to abandon that laid back kind of hippie feel of the 1960s, Scientologists believe they are at war to save the world, a Navy fleet filled with warrior hippies doesn't really instill fear. In your enemy's hearts, does it?

[00:47:29] Kyle Risi: No, I wouldn't say so. So as a result, the long hair is cut short. The beards are shaven, uniforms are put on, and the higher ups are addressed as sir.

[00:47:38] Adam Cox: Like a traditional kind of navy, I guess. Yeah. 

[00:47:40] Kyle Risi: Yeah. They also install a system of rewards and punishments.

[00:47:43] Kyle Risi: So any member who would question Aran or any of his teachings in any way are literally tied up in these heavy chains as a symbol of their degraded state. For a period of time the church also punished people with something called Overboarding. So basically members would be tied up with their symbolic chains and literally thrown over the side of the ship. So they are just murdering people.

[00:48:06] Adam Cox: Wow. Like a cult. 

[00:48:08] Kyle Risi: Like a cult. Exactly.

[00:48:10] Kyle Risi: So l Ron is now becoming increasingly more and more elusive even to his followers. Now, apparently the official story is that he's embarking on some sort of spiritual quest, and they say that he literally walks through the wall of fire, which is this metaphysical barrier, and in doing so, he has acquired the secrets that are so dangerous that discovering it could potentially be lethal to an unworthy person.

[00:48:38] Kyle Risi: It's this discovery that actually becomes the first major operating Thea. Kind of level. And that's OT level three, which is the level that most Scientologists look forward to achieving the most, because it's the first major revelation about a guy called Zou that they are given Zou.

[00:48:56] Kyle Risi: Yeah. So we'll come back to this. But with this new discovery, L Ron also now tells his followers that they need to do more to save the universe because he's discovered this new secret, this new revelation, and it's not enough to save the universe at this current trajectory. So they have to do more.

[00:49:14] Adam Cox: Okay. Does that involve giving away more of their money? 

[00:49:17] Kyle Risi: Possibly. Yeah. If they don't do it, there's no other hope for mankind. So across America, increased scrutiny towards Scientology is on the rise, and these entities are all deemed suppressive organizations or units.

[00:49:29] Kyle Risi: So in response, L Ron starts to preemptively infiltrate major organizations like the I R S and he ends up planting Scientologists within them as i r s agents and he gets them really high up in the organization. And this is part of Operation Snow White, which is later revealed by the F B I, to be the largest program of domestic espionage in US history.

[00:49:54] Kyle Risi: And L Ron's aim, essentially, is to infiltrate and then destroy any documents that criticized the church or its founder in any way. And it wasn't just the i r s that they orchestrated infiltrations and thefts from, they managed to infiltrate 136 governments and foreign embassies across the world, as well as private organizations across more than 30 different countries.

[00:50:18] Kyle Risi: And basically the church was intent on rewriting the history in favor of Scientology.

[00:50:23] Adam Cox: This feels like a science fiction plot all in itself there was something on Marvel recently, uh, which had these aliens that were infiltrating the world, they'd come to this planet, they'd been here for 20 years, Uhhuh, and they could shapeshift. And so they could pretend that they were the president or prime minister or famous people, uh, or an avenger and stuff like that.

[00:50:44] Adam Cox: And so I can't believe this was real, that they had infiltrated all these different organizations to basically rewrite their history. 

[00:50:52] Kyle Risi: It just goes to show you like, he is a science fiction writer. And he's a very powerful man. Isn't it strange how. Your imagination can sometimes leak into reality.

[00:51:02] Kyle Risi: And that's he's made this almost reality. Yeah, he's done this, but that's 

[00:51:06] Adam Cox: that. It's almost like he is so well, um, equipped to understand other, like trade secrets, all these kind of things. And I guess this is why people say like it's infiltrated Hollywood to a degree and how it has this influence over actors and things like that in Hollywood.

[00:51:23] Adam Cox: Because perhaps he did this however many years ago and so that could like persuade, casting decisions, all sorts and business decisions 

[00:51:31] Kyle Risi: and things. Yeah, sure. Wow. Not isn't it? 

[00:51:34] Adam Cox: I can't believe how weird this 

[00:51:36] Kyle Risi: is. So the whole operation comes to an end. After the F B I raid several high ranking members who are then all prosecuted.

[00:51:45] Kyle Risi: Among them is Mary Sue Hubbard, which is obviously a Ron's wife. She gets five years in prison and L Ron only manages to escape prosecution because he's always been really careful about putting his name against anything potentially incriminating. So he escapes. So L Ron goes into exile with two of his most trusted officials, and he's literally never seen in public ever again.

[00:52:09] Kyle Risi: No way. Never again. So on January the 24th, 1986, at the age of 74, L Ron dies after suffering a stroke. Now, 

[00:52:19] Adam Cox: so how long was he not in the public 

[00:52:22] Kyle Risi: domain? So he died 86. I'm gonna say 15 years. That's 

[00:52:27] Adam Cox: quite a while to like be hiding, I guess in some capacity.

[00:52:31] Kyle Risi: So the church scurry to hide a bunch of the church's assets, but the IRS get wind of this and they immediately accused the church of diverting over a hundred million dollars into kind of various foreign accounts, which spurs this huge legal battle that lasts right up until 1993 when the church finally agrees to pay 12.5 million in back taxes.

[00:52:51] Kyle Risi: But they also now secure religious status which gives a protection from all bunch of things. Convenient. Yeah. At the time of his death, L Ron is reportedly worth $650 million. Wow. Which is a staggering amount. Yeah. Considering he was a struggling pulp fiction writer just 35 years earlier, 

[00:53:12] Adam Cox: uh, that doesn't feel like someone who's head of a church would ever be like rich like 

[00:53:19] Kyle Risi: that, if you know what I mean.

[00:53:19] Kyle Risi: Yeah. You expect them to be like, oh, I don't need money. I don't need material goods, like giving 

[00:53:24] Adam Cox: back and all that sort of stuff. Yes. This is not, yeah. Not the normal kind 

[00:53:28] Kyle Risi: of, I tell you what, Adam and again, we can't go through it in this episode, but when I was finding out about some of their real estate that they have worldwide they buy real estate like you cannot believe. And they will open up these churches all over the place and they'll have these big grand ceremonies and then you'll come and visit them in two years, three years later. And they're empty.

[00:53:48] Kyle Risi: There's, they've just got these buildings. They just have these buildings, but they're saying that they're investing this money back into communities to help regenerate. But they're not, they're just buying a property. What are they gonna use that property for? The, they're just buying it purely for the land and the value of the building.

[00:54:03] Adam Cox: Unless there's like an underground base where they're plotting to take over the world. 

[00:54:07] Kyle Risi: It might be mess labs underneath. I wouldn't be surprised if they were capitalizing on that. If they get away with it, 

[00:54:13] Adam Cox: it feels like this is a breaking bad episode. 

[00:54:16] Kyle Risi: So unbelievably, it appears that L Ron never appointed a successor, which I don't believe. Either these documents, in my opinion, were destroyed or L Ron died so quickly and so unexpectedly that he just never got a chance to appoint a successor. But I find that hard to believe. Like he was like, when he died he was 74. You put that in order, especially if you're the head of a massive church. You think so? 

[00:54:40] Adam Cox: Unless someone has. It's fighting over who's gonna be the successor. 

[00:54:44] Kyle Risi: But apparently he never pointed a successor. But either way, the church is left without a leader. And so the race for the top job is on enter a man called 

[00:54:54] Kyle Risi: David Miscavige.

[00:54:56] Kyle Risi: I love this guy so much. Mis scavenge. He's just nuts. So, And again, I could spend 12 episodes on the guy. This is the man that had been hiding out with Al Ron when he went into exile and he's his personal messenger.

[00:55:10] Kyle Risi: Which is a powerful position to be in because. It means that you have control over the information that a Ron Hubbard is able to access. And receive. If he's in Excel and he's not seeing anyone he's sending David off to give out messages to people.

[00:55:25] Kyle Risi: And it's really not so as well because they'll be on these ships and Al Ron would say to one of his messages it'd be like a 14 year old girl. And she'd be like, you go up to Lieutenant FG Harvard and you tell him exactly this and you have to say it in the way that he said it.

[00:55:40] Kyle Risi: So if he's really angry this 14 year old girl's gotta go over and she's gotta try and imitate his voice and the way that he said it. So it's just really funny in my head. Like a 14 year old girl doing it. This is exactly what David MoCA's wife would've done.

[00:55:53] Kyle Risi: So she was in the C E O, but she was a personal messenger as well. And that's what she had to do really. And she's a young girl, which is really funny. That's bizarre.

[00:56:00] Kyle Risi: So yeah, he's got control over the information that El Ron Hubbard has access to. So real briefly just a bit about David. So he was born in 1960 and he became involved in Scientology at around about the age of eight. And what happened is he was taken to an auditing session for his asthma and the experience apparently cures him leading his entire family to embrace Scientology and they end up becoming followers.

[00:56:26] Kyle Risi: So by the age of 12, David was already auditing others, and by 13 he was administering kind of security checks to senior Scientology executives at 13. Yeah, of course it's bullshit, right? Yeah. At 16, he joins the Sea org and within a year he'd become El Ron Hubbard's personal messenger.

[00:56:46] Kyle Risi: Okay. By the age of 26, Dave Miscavige was one of the two men who goes into hiding with El Ron Hubbard just before his passing. Oh, so he's 26 and he's eyeing up the top job. 

[00:56:59] Adam Cox: Oh, but he's got away what, 10, 15, 20 years you're saying? 

[00:57:03] Kyle Risi: Nope. 

[00:57:03] Kyle Risi: David sets his sights on the top job, but he's only 26 years old, so he faces a significant challenge, of course. So Pat's Brooker, who I believe that's April now said broker, who was actually prime for the role. He is of course, experienced and also one of El Ron's closest confidants. and brooker was the other person in hiding with El Ron. Now, as far as David was concerned, the only thing standing in his way was the Church of Spiritual Technology Incorporated, or the C ss t. And again, We could do an entire episode just on this portion of the church.

[00:57:40] Kyle Risi: This is a section of the church that controls the copyright and the licensing for all Scientology materials. Now, I don't know why, but control over the C ss t means control over Scientology's most valuable assets, which leads to control of the church at the time, this was controlled by a woman called Terry Gamboa. Terry had this dream of running a horse ranch in New Zealand, and David was aware of this after looking through her auditing records. And he arranges basically a fake meeting with a man who offers her a job on a ranch leading Terry to leave her position. And this leaves the door open for David to take over the C ss t eventually.

[00:58:23] Kyle Risi: He can now take over the entire church of Scientology, and that's exactly what he does. Oh, okay. Yeah. So he's now head of church, the head of the church. Wow. Mental, isn't it? Yeah. 

[00:58:35] Adam Cox: That's quite a quick rise to power. 

[00:58:39] Kyle Risi: It gets so much darker because he's way less charismatic than L Ron is. He's really aggressive, super aggressive and really ambitious.

[00:58:48] Kyle Risi: Way more ambitious than L Ron is. So some of the things that happen after L Ron dies, are horrendous. People even today, are kept as prisoner in what they call the whole. Essentially it all started when someone had pissed him off and they had these temporary buildings at the back as basically a prefab, like when you were at school, went down there and he's just locked them in there.

[00:59:10] Kyle Risi: And that's where they've been ever since. They come out for a shower. But then after they've had a shower, they go straight back to it and they just sleep on the floor. But over the years, that's just grown with more and more prisoners just living inside these prefabs. And there's speculation that they no longer use this anymore.

[00:59:24] Kyle Risi: And that actually they spend the day in the hole, but then they can sleep in bed at night. But I don't think that's true. 

[00:59:31] Adam Cox: That's so weird. So that's almost like prison where you're put in confinement and 

[00:59:35] Kyle Risi: essentially the whole Yeah.

[00:59:36] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Essentially they're in prison. And these are just execs, right? They're wearing a suit. 

[00:59:40] Kyle Risi: Now let's explore some of the mysterious OT levels. Okay. So in Scientology, the ultimate goal, as we know, is to become an operating thea, right? 

[00:59:49] Adam Cox: An operating Thea. That just sounds ridiculous. 

[00:59:53] Kyle Risi: So reaching this level means that you have transcended the need for your physical body and that you have evolved into a self-aware, immortal soul. And in essence, you are like godlike, 

[01:00:04] Adam Cox: and you've probably spent like a few hundred thousand 

[01:00:07] Kyle Risi: for sure. Yeah.

[01:00:08] Kyle Risi: Now this journey is guided by what we call the bridge to total freedom. Which is essentially visually represented by a flow chart divided into two parallel paths. In a nutshell, the processing path, also known as the auditing path, is focus on personal spiritual development. And the path involves a series of steps where an individual receives counseling or auditing from a trained auditor.

[01:00:31] Kyle Risi: Okay? So that's everything that we've talked about, right? And the goal is to help the individual overcome spiritual obstacles called grams and reach a higher state of spiritual awareness. This path leads the individual through the pre-clear levels, right?

[01:00:45] Kyle Risi: So I'm not quite clear yet, but I'm getting there. Okay. And. Once you've reached the pretty clear levels, you then get to a state of clear and then you can proceed onto your OT levels. Okay. Okay. So just real quick, this is the bridge to freedom, 

[01:01:00] Adam Cox: The bridge to freedom. Do you know what this reminds me of? It reminds me of the almost, I mean, it's not like a periodic table. In the sense that there, it's just, uh, 

[01:01:10] Kyle Risi: yeah. I guess you're right. It feels very scientific. Yeah. 

[01:01:14] Adam Cox: Which, you know, makes sense. Scientology, there's a lot of levels.

[01:01:18] Adam Cox: There is. So you start off at not classed, um, God don't, I'm not 

[01:01:23] Kyle Risi: gonna go through them. There's a whole episode. And then you get to 

[01:01:26] Adam Cox: Class Zero and then you get almost it's like having karate. You get different bands different, I guess, isn't it? Yes, exactly. Um, so you get up to from Class zero up to class 10, 11, 12 maybe.

[01:01:40] Adam Cox: Yeah. Class 12, it 

[01:01:41] Kyle Risi: looks like. Wow. Is a lot. It is very involved. Like 

[01:01:45] Adam Cox: 15 

[01:01:45] Kyle Risi: to 20 levels. Yeah. And that's just the training side, right? We are talking about the operator, the processing side. 

[01:01:51] Adam Cox: Yes. That's training. So what you do one side and then you do the other side, or Well, 

[01:01:55] Kyle Risi: so you do it like in a combination.

[01:01:57] Kyle Risi: So the training path is geared towards becoming an auditor. Okay. While the processing path focuses on personal spiritual development, the training path emphasizes the learning of the techniques and the skills necessary to audit others. Right now, an individual on this path will take courses and participate in kind of exercises designed to develop their ability to understand, communicate, apply principles of Scientology to help others progress through right their own processing path.

[01:02:26] Kyle Risi: Now, while the two paths are distinct, the training and processing paths are complimentary. 

[01:02:31] Adam Cox: So you'd be like, everyone does their own processing path. But you can change to be a auditor. So then you might be doing both paths simultaneously, 

[01:02:39] Kyle Risi: at different levels.

[01:02:39] Kyle Risi: That's it. So many Scientologists are encouraged to pursue both paths simultaneously, or alternatively. But both paths are seen as a vital components of a Scientologist's journey to the bridge of total freedom, it all begins with those are those lower levels, which include introductory services like ification, rundown and dietetics, auditing to address ngrams, all that kind of bullshit. So once these foundations are laid, the Scientologist moves onto the clear level and they start working their way through grades zero to four, which focuses on life aspects like communication problems and culminating like in the new Dynetics or the nets.

[01:03:24] Kyle Risi: I'm not gonna pretend I understand this now. All of this aims to reach a state of being free of grams. When you complete this, you are then considered clear, right? You are now ready for OT levels.

[01:03:37] Kyle Risi: Okay. And this is the first major goal that most Scientologists will aim to reach. I want to get to my OT levels. So from here, the journey continues into the operating theater levels. OT one introduces the concept of operating independently of the body. Okay. While OT level two examines moral code, OT level three, this is known as the wall of fire.

[01:04:02] Kyle Risi: And this is what introduces the batshit crazy story about Zino 

[01:04:06] Adam Cox: Z. Oh, yes. The guy that you mentioned. Yeah. Oh, I say Guy. Well, we'll see in a second bigger 

[01:04:11] Kyle Risi: thing. Yeah. And this is the one that most Scientology kind of followers are the most excited to learn or get, because this first revelation gets revealed to them.

[01:04:20] Kyle Risi: And so do they 

[01:04:20] Adam Cox: know who Zenu is or 

[01:04:22] Kyle Risi: at this stage? No, they don't. They have a concept of what the Theat is, but they don't know what the origin story is of Theat. 

[01:04:28] Adam Cox: There, 

[01:04:28] Kyle Risi: yeah. Yeah. They don't know where their theat came from and what that is.

[01:04:32] Kyle Risi: They know that they're immortal, but they don't know 

[01:04:34] Adam Cox: why. God, they can't even go on Reddit to get like spoilers in this church. Could 

[01:04:39] Kyle Risi: you? Well, I ask loads of these questions and like people are like, but they're not ready for it yet. They're not ready for this information, so why would you go and pursue it before you need it?

[01:04:48] Kyle Risi: But there's gonna be some people that are curious. I just wanna know. Yeah, people 

[01:04:51] Adam Cox: like watch TV shows and films and they like to be spoiled. They do. I wanna 

[01:04:56] Kyle Risi: know what's at level 12. So OT, level four, that addresses spiritual effects of drugs and toxins. OT five focuses on handling body feens and OT Six and seven involve training and continuation of kind of solo auditing so you can audit yourself.

[01:05:12] Kyle Risi: Now while OT level eight is known as Truth Revealed and it delves into. The nature of all existence basically. And some famous Scientologists are OT eight Tom Cruise for one of them. Oh, he's eight. Is he? Yeah. He's quite high up. So the entire journey across the bridge, total freedom is obviously highly individual and can vary wildly in duration and cost.

[01:05:37] Kyle Risi: So it might take anywhere from just a few years to several decades depending on things like your commitment and your progress. And in terms of cost, this estimates to be in the range of between a hundred thousand dollars to $500,000 plus. Wow. So you That's a significant amount. That's like a house, yeah.

[01:05:55] Kyle Risi: That you're given to the church. That's actually less than I 

[01:05:57] Adam Cox: thought it might be. Really? I thought actually you could be in the millions when you get to the higher levels. 

[01:06:04] Kyle Risi: Possibly. I dunno if you it depends if you like, maybe there's an estimate of The average from start? Yeah. What about if you have to redo the levels again?

[01:06:12] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And remember you've got family members as well, so you've gotta do it. Jimmy's gotta 

[01:06:16] Adam Cox: do it. Oh, so it's not, you don't get like a discount. Say if you've got 

[01:06:18] Kyle Risi: twins may maybe, can't you get some kind of discount? I doubt it. So one of the key reasons why we know this is because of an actress called Leah Remini.

[01:06:26] Kyle Risi: Yes. This is the one I know about. Yeah. So she left the church in 2013, which is when she became essentially one of the church's biggest critics. Now she starts revealing things left right, and center. And obviously the church are coming after her and they are constantly harassing her. She's constantly being stalked, but she just doesn't give a shit. Anyway, Leah Remini says that she reached OT level three. Remember, big revelation. Yep. One so big and so dangerous that a mere mortal would die instantly if they were not prepared to receive it. Instantly. Instantly 

[01:07:03] Adam Cox: they would just drop down dead. Yes, because 

[01:07:06] Kyle Risi: Adam going to someone else's religion instantly.

[01:07:10] Kyle Risi: I 

[01:07:10] Adam Cox: think we've all known this 

[01:07:11] Kyle Risi: is not a religion. So Leah says that, she's escorted to a secure room where the OT level three materials are kept. Okay? She describes the labyrinth of rooms that she has to go through, which are all locked and secured. When she finally gets to the room where the documents are held, she is chained to the table.

[01:07:32] Kyle Risi: She's then handed a single manila envelope with a single piece of paper in it, which she then reads in silence. In this instance, she has a mother with her, and the only reason why she has a mother with her is 'cause her mother's already reached this level. Her mother's really excited, so in summary, this is what it says. Oh, we actually know what it said 95 million years ago, a theon leader of a galactic confederation of 76 planets around a star system.

[01:07:59] Kyle Risi: Called Zino. That's his name. Not the collection of planets. The Fean. Yeah. He was facing a problem of overpopulation across his star system. His solution was to capture the trillions of Feans who opposed him and deposit them inside volcanoes on a prison planet of tg, act otherwise known as Earth.

[01:08:20] Kyle Risi: Oh my God. He then eradicated all life on the planet using hydrogen bombs, leaving only the thetans in isolation on the planet. He then proceeds to brainwash all thetans to rid them of their original identities and God-like abilities. So for millions of years, these thetans wander the planet until life springs up on earth once again, and the thetans then attach themselves onto the human bodies, embedding themselves into the essence of our makeup.

[01:08:48] Kyle Risi: So the great revelation provides an origin for the soul and the theon, which senses around this mass genocide of an evil dictator named Nu. And that is it.

[01:09:01] Adam Cox: I imagine, I can imagine her face going and just looking at my mom going, what? You are excited for 

[01:09:06] Kyle Risi: me to read this? Yes. Her mom's like looking there going, Uhhuh, did you read it? She like it. Do you get it? She it, do you like it? And she's what the fuck is this shit man? And she's asked to explain and she's do you get it?

[01:09:16] Kyle Risi: And that's the thing, right? If she doesn't get it, it's her fault 'cause she's not ready to receive the information. 

[01:09:21] Adam Cox: So I guess at this point I imagine the in the information couldn't have been that crazy to the point we're talking about how the world or how people or whatever came to solve. 

[01:09:31] Kyle Risi: I dunno.

[01:09:32] Adam Cox: I just. Well, for her to was this the piece of information that made her just question everything after that? No, I 

[01:09:38] Kyle Risi: think that there was several other things Oh. Leading up to it. Okay. Yeah. And she's noticing all the bullshit. 

[01:09:43] Adam Cox: Um, wow. Yeah, that's just a whole load. It's, it sounds science fiction because it does sound like something that this L Ron guy would've created. 

[01:09:52] Kyle Risi: Totally. Yeah. So after reading this, Leah's like, what the fuck?

[01:09:57] Kyle Risi: She's really pissed off considering the time and financial kind of commitment that she's invested over the years. She's confused by this big revelation. And she doesn't actually get it, but she has to pretend that she does. So Leah's story is probably just one of the most public and dramatic of all.

[01:10:13] Kyle Risi: So she leaves the church a few years later after reaching OT level five in 2013. And since then, she's become one of the most outspoken critics of the church. And she's just determined to expose the church's darkest secrets, believing that she can withstand any harassment that they're thrower because she's that famous, right?

[01:10:32] Kyle Risi: They can come after her, but she'll be like, I'll just tell everyone. So she teams up with that guy Mike Grinder, who was that former senior executive of the Church of Scientology. And together they are slowly just revealing many of the churches controversial practices, and together they've literally created this Emmy award-winning docuseries titled Scientology in the aftermath, which is just incredible.

[01:10:54] Kyle Risi: So Mike Grinder actually worked personally with Al Ron Hubbard and he speaks at length in the series about the physical and mental abuse that he was ordered to inflict on members as part of the church's fair game policy. Also another aspect that's fascinated many is the involvement of these high profile celebrities within Scientology itself.

[01:11:12] Kyle Risi: And L Ron Hubbard himself recognized the potential influence that celebrities could have on the church and ordered the church to attract as many of them as he interesting as they could in the 1960s. And some of the most prominent names in Hollywood are like Tom Cruise. Uh, John Travolta, Kirsty Ali, they've all been vocal proponents of Scientology and Cruise perhaps has been the most famous face of Scientology out of them all.

[01:11:39] Kyle Risi: And he's not only just praise the religion. He's also like publicly clashed with those kind of, who have criticized it in public in interviews and things like that. Yeah. Anyone who's just questioned it, he will really come in guns, what's the word? Guns blazing. Blazing. Really? 

[01:11:54] Adam Cox: Because he, well, he was married to Katie Holmes and that was, I feel like, I mean, I don't know for sure, but wasn't that part of their sort of fallout was the whole Scientology in terms of really I'm sure it was in terms of what he wanted for their daughter.

[01:12:07] Adam Cox: I could be wrong. Could be 

[01:12:08] Kyle Risi: wrong. No you're probably not though. That's the thing. You're probably not wrong. So his intense commitment and his involvement in the church is showcased perfectly when he receives the church's Freedom Medal of Valor from David Mis himself.

[01:12:21] Kyle Risi: David Miscavige is his best friend. They are so tightly knit together. When you find out some of the things that David Misca is guilty of, that will make you question Tom Cruise in a big way. What's he guilty of? Mate? A whole new episode I'm gonna touch upon. I'm gonna touch upon one thing at the very end Okay.

[01:12:42] Kyle Risi: So Kirsti Alley, she's another devotee of Scientology, and she credits the church with helping her overcome her addiction, free from kind of psychology and psychiatry and everything, all dietetics. And her transformation is often touted as a testament to the power of Scientology's methods.

[01:13:00] Kyle Risi: John Travolta, his dedication to the faith is also well known now. Stories have circulated about how the church has supported him during obviously his personal tragedies and how that helped him solidify his faith in the church. However, Leah Remini, she told the world in an interview with Joe Rogan that John Travolta has been given the title of Ccan, which means that he has the authority to commit murder

[01:13:26] Kyle Risi: she says that part of the Scientology's Ethics, protection and responsibility for leaders policy, that this means that if you are a Scientologist and you walk in and see John Travolta has killed someone, you are essentially compelled to do whatever is necessary to protect John as a leader and get rid of that body and carry on acting as if nothing has happened.

[01:13:50] Adam Cox: So how do we know about this? Is this through Leah? This is all through Leah. Fine. Yeah, because I was just like, people knew about this as a ridiculous 

[01:13:59] Kyle Risi: I mean, it might not be true. I mean, she's the only one that we've got, but she's also the closest link, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's not like she needs to struggle to find weird crap to say about Scientology.

[01:14:09] Kyle Risi: There's enough of that already. And I dunno if you've 

[01:14:11] Adam Cox: seen John Travolta recently, 'cause he is like in his seventies. He looks like a villain now. No, but he's shaving his head, but he looks like 50. He looks really good for a 70 

[01:14:22] Kyle Risi: year old. You think it's got something to do with Scientology? Yeah.

[01:14:24] Kyle Risi: It's all the people he's killed. God. So finally I want to touch upon what I think is the most interesting controversy of Modern Day Scientology, and that is Shelly Miscavige. Okay. Who is the wife of David Miscavige and who has been Unexplainably missing from the public eye since 2007. And there is footage that suggests that the last person to see her alive or her in public, one of them is Tom Cruise in a video.

[01:14:55] Kyle Risi: Really? So rumors and speculation about her whereabouts have led to literally widespread discussion with former members of the church and critics expressing like where the hell is she? Mm-hmm. They wanna know this is a woman that has been very rarely seen without David.

[01:15:11] Kyle Risi: They've always been by each other's side. Okay. Since they were children. So for her to now just be all of a sudden missing. And for her to be such a really high functioning member of the 

[01:15:20] Adam Cox: religion. And it's 16 years she's been missing

[01:15:23] Kyle Risi: I think they say that 2005 is when they were, she lost, was seen in public.

[01:15:27] Kyle Risi: Okay. But yeah, around about that time. So some believe that she's been kept in seclusion or is being punished somewhere deep within the organization. Some people think it's at the C S T, that technology thing that we talked about earlier on, that she's there. But yeah. No one's seen her at all.

[01:15:43] Kyle Risi: Now, the controversy around Shelly Miscavige's disappearance has added to an already complex and often contentious relationship between the church, Scientology and also the public in general. Yeah. Yeah. So the church's secret of nature and the treatment of its members, especially those who decide to leave the organization, it's just appalling.

[01:16:03] Kyle Risi: Several media outlets and individuals have tried to investigate she's whereabouts, Leah Remini, like to a major degree, but they just keep coming up with nothing definitive. The police are telling her there's nothing to see here. So 

[01:16:17] Adam Cox: there's someone in the police then clearly that 

[01:16:19] Kyle Risi: Yes. Yes.

[01:16:20] Kyle Risi: They're all in on it. They're all in cahoots with the church. They're protecting the church, or they're saying, it's not my jurisdiction. Yeah, and we can't investigate, or like we've gone down to the compound and we've seen her, we've spoken to her. Okay. What does she say? That's classified. That is so messed up, mate.

[01:16:36] Kyle Risi: It's messed up. 

[01:16:37] Adam Cox: How did, yeah this definitely feels like a science fiction 

[01:16:40] Kyle Risi: movie. So where is Shelly? That's it. But anyway, for now, that is the story of Scientology. 

[01:16:49] Adam Cox: That is just bonkers. I still have, I have more questions. I don't think we're not gonna be able to answer them, but how I don't, yeah, I mean it's weird 'cause Tom Cruise, I watched the recent mission possible.

[01:17:02] Adam Cox: I'm not necessarily massive Tom Cruise fan. And but then you appreciate his, all his stunts and everything, but then you remember, oh yeah, he's a Scientologist. And I didn't realize just how messed up it was in my opinion. If you're a Scientologist out there, you know, this episode 

[01:17:17] Kyle Risi: probably isn't for you.

[01:17:18] Kyle Risi: No. Also the crazy thing about Tom Cruise and him being on these sets is that he brings his Scientology crew with him. All his help and his entourage or Scientologists, and they don't say no to him. You're not allowed to, he's so high up in the church. So if he says you're out in the middle of the desert in Nevada or whatever, and he says, I want a mini mega milky mocha chocolate with double ice.

[01:17:40] Kyle Risi: And they're like, where am I going? No, there's no star. You don't say no to Tom. You create Starbucks, you create, you build Starbucks if you need to. You don't say no and it's nuts. So I just, you 

[01:17:50] Adam Cox: think there's, these people would just have bit more of a brain self. Why are they bought into this? I just love to know how they've managed to get so involved.

[01:17:59] Adam Cox: 'cause I get the principle how maybe these things that you can do, you can better yourself and be, you know, I understand the very early concepts of what this was. But what it is now, 

[01:18:12] Kyle Risi: I can't answer the question, but I can't answer the question for you now because we just outta time. Alright, fine. But there is an answer and there's a belief system and people believe it and there's reasons, but anyway, reasons.

[01:18:25] Kyle Risi: That's the answer. We have to leave it there for now. Okay, fine. But yeah, I hope you enjoyed that today. That was good. Yeah. Outro. 

[01:18:31] Kyle Risi: Yeah. So that brings us to an end of another episode of the Compendium, an assembly of fascinating and intriguing things. Uh, we hope you've enjoyed our dabble in today's story.

[01:18:41] Kyle Risi: If you did, please subscribe. Leave us a cheeky five star review and why not schedule episodes to download so that you never miss a moment it helps us trick those algorithms and helps us to continue to grow the show. 

[01:18:54] Kyle Risi: You can follow us on Instagram at the Compendium podcast or if you have a burning question or a comment, then can connect with us through our website@thecompendiumpodcast.com. 

[01:19:05] Kyle Risi: We really do love hearing from you. We release every Tuesday, so join us for next week as we unravel yet another intriguing story from around the world of the fascinating and intriguing. And I guess until then, stay curious.

[01:19:19] Kyle Risi: See you. 

[01:19:20] Kyle Risi: See you.