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Feb. 6, 2024

Dr. Donald Cline: Conceived in Deceit, the Infamous Fertility Scandal

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In this episode of the Compendium, Adam tells Kyle all about the fascinating yet slightly scandalous world of Dr. Donald Cline. Trust us, this isn’t your everyday story of a fertility doctor; it’s a riveting tale of hidden family secrets, artificial insemination ethics, and a sperm donor scandal that left everyone speechless. 

And it all started when Jacoba a ordinary young woman, keen to understand more about her geneology stumbles upon a secret that had been hidden her DNA her entire life. A secret that only snowballed as she dared to venture deeper into. 

Today we wade through the murky waters of fertility fraud with a touch of humor, because sometimes life’s complexities need a bit of light-heartedness.

We give you the Compendium, but if you want more, then check out these great resources:

  1. “Our Father” - 2022 Netflix documentary
  2. “Donald Cline” - Wikipedia
  3. “Fertility Fraud” - Wikipedia

Send us a Text Message and get a shout out in Listner Mail!

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Credits:

Chapters

00:00 - Sneak peak

02:04 - Welcome to The Compendium

03:56 - All the latest things

11:32 - Topic of the week

53:45 - Outro

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:01.050 --> 00:00:03.056
and the nurse who works with Dr.

00:00:03.056 --> 00:00:08.730
Cline, said that she would pop over to the local hospital to collect sperm specimens from these medical students.

00:00:09.230 --> 00:00:10.954
And she knew a lot of them as well.

00:00:11.083 --> 00:00:11.573
Oh did she?

00:00:11.573 --> 00:00:14.003
Ha ha ha ha ha.

00:00:14.544 --> 00:00:18.603
I'm gonna just pop over to like, where The sexy medical students are.

00:00:18.653 --> 00:00:19.693
And get some, samples.

00:00:19.833 --> 00:00:25.803
She does take the specimen back in an interesting way because you have to keep it at room temperature, or body temperature I should say, not room temperature.

00:00:25.803 --> 00:00:26.184
Oh my god,

00:00:26.324 --> 00:00:27.234
does she put it between her

00:00:27.234 --> 00:00:27.734
cleavage?

00:00:27.844 --> 00:00:30.143
She does! OH

00:00:31.402 --> 00:00:33.633
Oh, man, I knew it!

00:00:59.173 --> 00:01:02.792
Welcome to the Compendium, an assembly of fascinating and intriguing things.

00:01:03.343 --> 00:01:05.522
Stories from darker corners of true crime.

00:01:05.923 --> 00:01:09.203
Mind blowing historical events and legendary people.

00:01:09.662 --> 00:01:14.212
We give you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering.

00:01:14.712 --> 00:01:16.471
I'm your host for today, Adam Cox.

00:01:16.751 --> 00:01:17.052
And I'm

00:01:17.052 --> 00:01:18.371
your co host for today,

00:01:18.522 --> 00:01:19.611
Kyle Risi.

00:01:19.977 --> 00:01:27.468
And in today's compendium, we are exploring an assembly of hidden origins silently woven into the genetic code of a bunch of strangers.

00:01:27.968 --> 00:01:28.207
What?

00:01:28.983 --> 00:01:30.283
What does that even mean?

00:01:30.393 --> 00:01:30.983
No idea.

00:01:30.983 --> 00:01:32.923
About DNA?

00:01:33.263 --> 00:01:34.813
DNA, yes, exactly that.

00:01:35.102 --> 00:01:35.912
Just DNA?

00:01:35.923 --> 00:01:39.003
Well, yeah, and how it connects a bunch of strangers.

00:01:39.503 --> 00:01:41.302
What are we covering today?

00:01:41.352 --> 00:01:44.882
we're going to be focusing on a woman named Jacoba Ballard.

00:01:45.132 --> 00:01:45.692
Jacoba?

00:01:46.022 --> 00:01:46.522
Jacoba.

00:01:46.643 --> 00:01:48.492
What a name! You don't get many Jacobas

00:01:48.513 --> 00:01:49.192
these days, do you?

00:01:49.263 --> 00:01:51.102
This is the only Jacoba I know of.

00:01:51.453 --> 00:01:51.862
Oh, okay.

00:01:52.362 --> 00:01:52.472
Yeah.

00:01:52.472 --> 00:01:54.096
Laughter.

00:01:54.096 --> 00:01:54.906
Jacob's life.

00:01:55.025 --> 00:02:01.656
Took a turn when she underwent an at-home DNA test, revealing the existence of seven half siblings.

00:02:02.561 --> 00:02:16.671
Upon connecting with her newfound family and delving into the shared mystery of how they were all related, Jacoba and her siblings were soon horrified to uncover the unsettling truth about what their parents trusted doctor had done.

00:02:17.092 --> 00:02:17.342
What?

00:02:17.842 --> 00:02:25.981
Hang on, they were all, so they had no idea that they were all brother and sister from like Their own father, like her father or her mother.

00:02:26.241 --> 00:02:26.972
it must be the father.

00:02:26.972 --> 00:02:30.092
The father's been doing the dirty and he wasn't there.

00:02:30.572 --> 00:02:31.792
He What?

00:02:31.972 --> 00:02:32.151
What?

00:02:32.608 --> 00:02:34.168
I think you just rambled.

00:02:34.277 --> 00:02:34.717
I don't know why.

00:02:34.728 --> 00:02:35.018
I think I did.

00:02:35.437 --> 00:02:35.687
Hang

00:02:35.687 --> 00:02:35.848
on.

00:02:35.888 --> 00:02:36.457
I'm so

00:02:36.518 --> 00:02:37.527
confused.

00:02:37.538 --> 00:02:41.782
we're going to explore exactly what this doctor did, why he might have done it.

00:02:42.282 --> 00:02:44.951
and what the repercussions of those actions were.

00:02:45.451 --> 00:02:49.551
Oh my god, I've never heard of this story before and I'm so living for it today.

00:02:49.831 --> 00:02:52.382
Cool, before we get into that, shall we?

00:02:52.731 --> 00:02:56.072
Oh, I never get to say this bit, but it's time for all the latest

00:02:56.072 --> 00:02:56.472
things.

00:02:56.861 --> 00:02:57.271
Let's do it.

00:03:06.915 --> 00:03:13.716
So I was I was scrolling through, racist Twitter and, of course, all stuff with

00:03:13.725 --> 00:03:13.756
X.

00:03:13.996 --> 00:03:14.626
It's just X.

00:03:14.675 --> 00:03:15.645
Oh, it's X now, isn't it?

00:03:15.645 --> 00:03:17.675
We should always say it's X, formerly known as Twitter.

00:03:17.725 --> 00:03:17.866
no,

00:03:17.866 --> 00:03:18.066
no.

00:03:18.156 --> 00:03:22.425
I refuse to give in to this fantasy of Elon Musk.

00:03:22.425 --> 00:03:23.635
It's Twitter to me.

00:03:23.665 --> 00:03:26.165
And when are they going to stop saying that, formerly known as Twitter?

00:03:26.665 --> 00:03:26.765
I

00:03:26.765 --> 00:03:27.075
don't know.

00:03:27.086 --> 00:03:28.415
It's just, it's so dumb.

00:03:28.885 --> 00:03:36.838
But anyway, so I was scrolling through misogynistic, Twitter because, recently Let's just maybe laugh, and I don't believe any of this, but it just made me laugh.

00:03:36.938 --> 00:03:44.449
recently, Iceland had a women's march, where the women went on strike, 100, 000 women across the country.

00:03:44.498 --> 00:03:45.859
Now remember, this is a country.

00:03:46.338 --> 00:03:48.829
that has a population of 370, 000 people.

00:03:48.829 --> 00:03:49.088
I was just

00:03:49.098 --> 00:03:50.199
thinking, what was the population?

00:03:50.468 --> 00:03:51.459
That's a third of Iceland.

00:03:51.508 --> 00:03:51.799
Yeah,

00:03:52.088 --> 00:03:52.649
huge amount.

00:03:52.949 --> 00:03:59.199
So 100, 000 women went on strike and it was all about gender equality and gender pay, right?

00:03:59.688 --> 00:04:03.939
And the entire population, like I said, of Iceland is 000 people.

00:04:03.949 --> 00:04:07.050
So 25 percent of the population went on strike this day.

00:04:07.550 --> 00:04:14.560
And some misogynists pulled out some really interesting stats about how the economy performed.

00:04:15.060 --> 00:04:15.830
On that day.

00:04:15.900 --> 00:04:16.560
Right, okay.

00:04:17.029 --> 00:04:19.509
So, um, the economy, didn't come to a stop.

00:04:20.009 --> 00:04:21.519
As many people believed.

00:04:21.579 --> 00:04:26.790
And, the only memo that they got was that HR departments were getting, way less complaints in the 24

00:04:27.089 --> 00:04:27.439
hours.

00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:29.800
Well, there were less people around to complain, but yeah.

00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:31.639
They're They're not all women, surely.

00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:32.480
I think

00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:34.490
that they're insinuating that it's the women.

00:04:34.529 --> 00:04:34.810
Wow.

00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:39.180
and one CEO said that it was nice to just finally get some shit done.

00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:39.870
What?

00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:40.930
That's awful.

00:04:41.370 --> 00:04:41.990
That's what they've been

00:04:41.990 --> 00:04:44.180
peddling on misogynistic Twitter.

00:04:44.329 --> 00:04:44.699
Isn't that awful?

00:04:45.555 --> 00:04:48.714
So,

00:04:48.745 --> 00:04:51.774
yeah, no HR complaints and they got some shit done that day.

00:04:52.274 --> 00:04:52.814
Wow.

00:04:53.074 --> 00:04:53.355
Yeah.

00:04:53.365 --> 00:04:53.805
Wow.

00:04:54.990 --> 00:04:59.660
Oh, and the next thing so I've got a bit of a bone to pick with some of our American listeners.

00:04:59.819 --> 00:05:00.079
Okay.

00:05:00.089 --> 00:05:02.620
And I know we have many, cause a lot of our listeners are American.

00:05:02.990 --> 00:05:05.100
So I was talking to one of our listeners, over the last week.

00:05:05.100 --> 00:05:06.629
Hi, Audrey from Ohio.

00:05:06.889 --> 00:05:07.230
Yeah.

00:05:07.300 --> 00:05:07.850
Hi, Audrey.

00:05:08.129 --> 00:05:09.470
I bet you never thought I had a.

00:05:09.970 --> 00:05:11.069
Give you a little shout out there.

00:05:11.310 --> 00:05:11.620
Oh no.

00:05:11.629 --> 00:05:19.310
But we were having a little chat about one of our more recent episodes that was posted in August, which Audrey only referenced by date, right?

00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:22.759
I was thinking, oh, she's talking about the Amelia Earhart episode.

00:05:23.129 --> 00:05:26.589
And I was like, oh, this doesn't quite make sense, but okay, maybe I understand her points.

00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:27.829
And I just responded.

00:05:28.259 --> 00:05:32.889
And then she responded, and it turned out that, yeah, we both had no idea what we were talking about.

00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:38.029
Because she was referring to an episode that was released in October, the Jennifer Fairgate one.

00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:38.879
Oh, okay.

00:05:38.930 --> 00:05:41.089
And, guys, she wrote the date.

00:05:41.589 --> 00:05:43.120
Month, day, year.

00:05:43.250 --> 00:05:45.490
Guys, it's day, month, year.

00:05:45.540 --> 00:05:46.509
What is that about?

00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:47.529
because that makes sense, right?

00:05:47.529 --> 00:05:50.149
it's smallest to largest, not month.

00:05:50.339 --> 00:05:56.899
Yeah, I just, how do you guys not get confused when you're booking, concert tickets and tour dates and things like that.

00:05:56.949 --> 00:05:57.649
I just don't get it.

00:05:57.819 --> 00:05:57.980
It

00:05:57.980 --> 00:05:58.500
is odd.

00:05:58.509 --> 00:06:02.399
I guess when you see 31 in the middle section, you always go oh, hang on, what's going on?

00:06:02.449 --> 00:06:03.389
Oh, it's American Day.

00:06:03.500 --> 00:06:04.480
Yeah, but then you've got to

00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:08.660
go through your brain and you've got to work, you've got to do the conversion and it just doesn't sit right with me.

00:06:08.660 --> 00:06:11.480
But yeah, so I apologize for the confusion.

00:06:11.509 --> 00:06:15.418
I apologize for sounding like a complete idiot So, um.

00:06:15.449 --> 00:06:17.699
Did you have a nice chat about it?

00:06:17.699 --> 00:06:27.021
It doesn't matter what we were chatting about, she was just complimenting us on how insightful the episode was and which bits she really liked so yeah, Amelia Earhart was not murdered in a hotel room.

00:06:28.021 --> 00:06:33.112
And there was not evidence inside the hotel room that might indicate where Amelia Earhart was.

00:06:33.461 --> 00:06:34.682
So, yeah.

00:06:35.064 --> 00:06:42.574
but in future I need to just be a bit more vigilant about how I understand dates because we have so many American listeners,

00:06:42.584 --> 00:06:42.875
so.

00:06:42.954 --> 00:06:48.495
Well thanks Audrey for your kind comments and I apologise for Kyle criticising how you look at dates.

00:06:48.845 --> 00:06:49.045
I'm

00:06:49.495 --> 00:06:51.774
sorry! yeah, so that's all my latest things for the week.

00:06:51.894 --> 00:06:52.564
What have you got for us?

00:06:53.115 --> 00:06:58.990
so as we know we recognise different types of genders now and sexuality, so recently You're a

00:06:58.990 --> 00:06:59.831
gender, do you know that?

00:07:00.115 --> 00:07:01.906
Like there is a gender that's named after Adam.

00:07:01.915 --> 00:07:02.336
Oh really?

00:07:02.386 --> 00:07:03.485
Yeah, I can't remember what it does.

00:07:03.516 --> 00:07:03.646
The

00:07:03.646 --> 00:07:05.266
first man gender?

00:07:05.276 --> 00:07:05.596
I can't

00:07:05.665 --> 00:07:06.675
remember what it is.

00:07:06.675 --> 00:07:12.605
I just remember seeing a list Okay of 300 genders and at the top of that gender in alphabetical order was like Adam's

00:07:12.646 --> 00:07:15.446
gender That's so egotistical of me Well

00:07:16.107 --> 00:07:18.257
it's you who submitted that I want

00:07:18.307 --> 00:07:25.887
a gender So this, and obviously I'm not, saying that there's only two genders, but this particular woman came out as Hey, what are you saying, Adam?

00:07:25.976 --> 00:07:26.596
you'll find out.

00:07:27.076 --> 00:07:27.586
Okay, okay, sorry.

00:07:27.637 --> 00:07:30.137
This woman recently came out as eco sexual.

00:07:30.137 --> 00:07:31.127
so I don't know what that meant.

00:07:31.307 --> 00:07:35.086
Does she just like, I don't know, nature and being environmentally green?

00:07:35.086 --> 00:07:35.906
I don't know.

00:07:35.906 --> 00:07:36.617
She gets off on it.

00:07:37.047 --> 00:07:37.687
Oh my god.

00:07:38.156 --> 00:07:39.086
someone's recycling.

00:07:39.571 --> 00:07:40.411
I have like a little bit of a

00:07:40.411 --> 00:07:40.781
moment.

00:07:41.031 --> 00:07:43.201
That's a lot of emotion for recycling.

00:07:43.581 --> 00:07:47.690
so a woman, yeah, she's opened up about being in a relationship with.

00:07:48.190 --> 00:07:48.610
Shut up.

00:07:48.930 --> 00:07:49.511
A tree.

00:07:50.011 --> 00:07:51.430
She is a 45 year old.

00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:53.420
She lives in Vancouver Island, British Columbia.

00:07:53.826 --> 00:08:00.565
and she was experiencing feelings of loneliness when she stumbled upon a unique connection with an oak tree.

00:08:00.855 --> 00:08:01.206
Okay.

00:08:01.545 --> 00:08:04.802
Was it a, very, unusual, interesting, attractive oak tree?

00:08:04.853 --> 00:08:08.932
there is a picture in this article, but I don't know if it's THE oak tree or if it's just Shutterstock.

00:08:09.413 --> 00:08:10.182
So I just don't know.

00:08:12.208 --> 00:08:16.029
Either way, it gives me an idea of perhaps what she was feeling at that time.

00:08:16.029 --> 00:08:16.894
It gives you an

00:08:16.894 --> 00:08:18.408
idea of what a tree is, right?

00:08:18.408 --> 00:08:20.247
It doesn't tell you about the individual.

00:08:20.298 --> 00:08:22.958
But the point is, she's been on Please don't say dates on trees.

00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:25.911
Going through my Tinder matches, swiping left on

00:08:25.911 --> 00:08:26.600
a couple trees.

00:08:26.620 --> 00:08:28.531
no, it all started from lockdown.

00:08:28.531 --> 00:08:31.050
So she was going on her daily walks in 2020.

00:08:31.456 --> 00:08:39.485
and it wasn't until the summer of 2021 when she began to have an, a, she calls it an erotic experience with this tree.

00:08:39.936 --> 00:08:46.635
She explains, I was walking a path near the tree five days a week for the whole winter and I noticed a connection with that tree.

00:08:47.066 --> 00:08:52.875
I would lie against it and there was a eroticism with something so big and so old holding my back.

00:08:53.375 --> 00:08:55.466
Sounds like she's into old people and she's just been misdirected.

00:08:56.596 --> 00:08:58.755
I don't, you know, Oak Tree is pretty old.

00:08:59.255 --> 00:09:07.225
She was looking to find a person who made her feel such a way, but ultimately she says that she ended up finding it with the tree and she didn't find it with another human being.

00:09:07.615 --> 00:09:13.535
And the feeling of being tiny and supported by something so solid, was, she just couldn't resist.

00:09:13.951 --> 00:09:19.010
and she had this craving, this rush of energy that comes when you meet a new partner.

00:09:19.061 --> 00:09:20.721
And that's how she compares it.

00:09:20.980 --> 00:09:27.660
Wow! and she says, despite this, and I will say this the last time, erotic energy, uh, with the tree.

00:09:27.880 --> 00:09:29.951
Um, it's not a sexual relationship.

00:09:29.990 --> 00:09:33.041
It's just this kind of, it's a bit of a misconception, I guess.

00:09:33.041 --> 00:09:38.331
She thinks that's what you go do with a tree, but it's just this feeling that she has this, desire.

00:09:38.706 --> 00:09:52.716
to be with this tree, and she says she encourages everyone to go out and do it, so, you know, next time you go for a walk, just have a look around, see if you can pitch yourself with a nice, I don't know, birch, willow, whatever it might be.

00:09:53.505 --> 00:09:57.296
Well, I mean, it's a good job that, you are allowed to shoot trespassers on your land.

00:09:57.346 --> 00:10:04.056
I imagine she's not going to live very long if a farmer comes along and sees her being intimate with the trees, Audrey, get the shotgun!

00:10:04.285 --> 00:10:11.926
Well, if I wake up one day and I look out the window, and I see someone there just laying against my tree in the backyard, that'd be weird.

00:10:12.186 --> 00:10:12.525
I mean,

00:10:12.576 --> 00:10:15.446
most of our trees are shrubs, so that would be a bit weird.

00:10:15.495 --> 00:10:16.745
And they'll be in our garden.

00:10:16.946 --> 00:10:17.145
Yeah.

00:10:17.145 --> 00:10:18.135
It's not like it's a big field or

00:10:18.135 --> 00:10:18.196
anything.

00:10:18.596 --> 00:10:19.566
We should really lock the gate,

00:10:20.066 --> 00:10:20.475
just in case.

00:10:20.495 --> 00:10:24.177
Oh, Laura from across the road is propped up against one of our bushes again.

00:10:24.543 --> 00:10:26.053
so yeah, that's my, latest thing.

00:10:26.283 --> 00:10:26.644
Great,

00:10:26.724 --> 00:10:27.153
I love it.

00:10:27.653 --> 00:10:28.553
Should we get on with the story?

00:10:28.984 --> 00:10:29.583
Let's do it.

00:10:32.259 --> 00:10:33.000
So, tell me

00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:34.244
about these siblings.

00:10:34.293 --> 00:10:35.083
These siblings.

00:10:35.114 --> 00:10:38.063
Well, as I mentioned, the story starts with, Jacoba.

00:10:38.563 --> 00:10:42.120
And she was born on August 26th, 1980.

00:10:42.831 --> 00:10:46.721
I feel like I've done the date as an American then, just to annoy you.

00:10:47.221 --> 00:10:48.051
There you go, Audrey.

00:10:48.876 --> 00:10:52.567
And growing up, she always felt a bit different to her family.

00:10:53.067 --> 00:11:01.567
She was blonde haired, blue eyed, and had, or has fair skin, not had, she has fair skin, but her family had dark hair and olive coloured skin.

00:11:02.027 --> 00:11:11.385
And she kept asking her mum, Debbie, if she was adopted, probably sort of joking, but maybe with a hint of seriousness and perhaps she just needed some reassurance.

00:11:11.936 --> 00:11:15.946
her mum would say, appearance didn't matter, but Jacoba was adamant.

00:11:15.975 --> 00:11:18.597
Like, if I am adopted please tell me I'll be okay with

00:11:18.597 --> 00:11:18.778
it.

00:11:19.128 --> 00:11:20.467
What did her parents think about it?

00:11:20.528 --> 00:11:26.827
did they not go, obviously, I don't want to startle Jacoba and go, and obviously they give no reassuring words.

00:11:26.827 --> 00:11:27.628
it doesn't matter.

00:11:28.067 --> 00:11:31.817
And then behind the scenes, they're going, she's got a point, What?

00:11:32.048 --> 00:11:32.337
Why

00:11:32.337 --> 00:11:33.248
is she so white?

00:11:33.977 --> 00:11:37.238
Well, the thing is, the mum does tell her the truth when she's 10.

00:11:37.668 --> 00:11:44.927
And Oh, so the parents knew! the parents didn't adopt her, but what they did do is they used a sperm donor so that they could have a baby.

00:11:44.998 --> 00:11:45.788
Oh, I see.

00:11:45.817 --> 00:11:48.118
So Debbie is her biological mother.

00:11:48.258 --> 00:11:52.427
Oh, so it's not a big deal when, I don't know what's going to happen, but it's not, won't be a big deal.

00:11:52.437 --> 00:11:56.998
It's not like they're finding out that, you are not my dad, because they went for a sperm donor anyway.

00:11:57.327 --> 00:11:58.778
But I guess Carry on.

00:11:59.008 --> 00:11:59.357
Carry

00:11:59.357 --> 00:11:59.378
on.

00:11:59.577 --> 00:12:00.587
I don't know what's happening.

00:12:00.707 --> 00:12:02.477
yeah, there's a lot to unpack.

00:12:02.677 --> 00:12:09.498
so yes, Debbie, her mother, is her biological mother, and her dad is, not her biological dad, but obviously raised her.

00:12:09.538 --> 00:12:10.398
What was wrong with the dad?

00:12:10.778 --> 00:12:15.248
they weren't able to conceive, so they wanted a family, really badly.

00:12:15.538 --> 00:12:18.898
but they couldn't do it through natural means, because Debbie's husband was infertile.

00:12:19.398 --> 00:12:27.177
So they went to a fertility clinic, and there was a doctor there called Donald Klein, and they were looking to have artificial insemination.

00:12:27.618 --> 00:12:30.123
so just a year before Jacoba was born, Dr.

00:12:30.123 --> 00:12:42.946
Klein had started his own clinic which specialized in infertility and reproduction and he would go on to treat thousands of cases in Indianapolis Through not just sperm donors, but also laser treatments.

00:12:43.216 --> 00:12:49.166
So he was like the speciality Person you would go to in that area if you had any fertility

00:12:49.166 --> 00:12:49.956
problems.

00:12:49.956 --> 00:12:51.505
So he's the top guy, right?

00:12:51.690 --> 00:12:53.649
your healthcare can cover it then that's

00:12:53.649 --> 00:13:01.639
where you want to go Yeah, exactly And being a sperm donor back then, you didn't have perhaps the same level of processing and scrutiny that you do have now.

00:13:02.090 --> 00:13:08.759
Yes, you still had to be free of diseases or things that would, or possibly could be passed on through inheritance.

00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:09.250
Okay.

00:13:09.340 --> 00:13:14.730
and you couldn't necessarily, I think you could probably specify certain traits you might want in a father, i.

00:13:14.730 --> 00:13:14.870
e.

00:13:15.070 --> 00:13:17.909
I want them to look like me or whatever, So what are you looking

00:13:17.909 --> 00:13:18.269
for there?

00:13:18.269 --> 00:13:22.710
So when you say you want someone to kind of like, look like me, you're talking about like blonde hair,

00:13:22.710 --> 00:13:23.620
blue eyes?

00:13:23.669 --> 00:13:24.429
I think so.

00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.928
Skin colour, things like that, where obviously to try and make the child fit within the family.

00:13:28.938 --> 00:13:29.818
And I'm assuming

00:13:29.818 --> 00:13:33.298
Jacoba's parents have said, can we have someone with olive skin?

00:13:33.578 --> 00:13:36.259
When Debbie was in her early 20s, Dr.

00:13:36.259 --> 00:13:41.038
Klein had found a donor which supposedly looked a lot like Debbie's husband.

00:13:41.089 --> 00:13:41.448
Okay.

00:13:41.619 --> 00:13:43.639
Maybe, I don't know, a tall man.

00:13:43.678 --> 00:13:45.489
I don't know how you could tell, right?

00:13:45.489 --> 00:13:47.219
But supposedly that's what he said.

00:13:47.589 --> 00:13:49.668
And a lot Oh, so she's just taken his word for it.

00:13:49.719 --> 00:13:55.798
Yeah, there wasn't like a catalogue where you go, this is a finance person, this person lived in Nepal and all that sort of stuff.

00:13:55.798 --> 00:13:55.928
So

00:13:55.958 --> 00:13:56.678
no photographs.

00:13:56.719 --> 00:13:57.798
It's not like a line up.

00:13:57.889 --> 00:13:58.068
No.

00:13:58.178 --> 00:14:00.058
Like, oh yeah, I I want his sperm Ew, no.

00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:05.519
no, because a lot of the donors, uh, sperms, sperms, uh, would come.

00:14:05.528 --> 00:14:06.688
I mean, there are more

00:14:06.688 --> 00:14:07.068
than one.

00:14:07.129 --> 00:14:07.379
Do you want

00:14:07.379 --> 00:14:08.969
me to sit down with you and tell you how it works?

00:14:09.009 --> 00:14:09.798
There's millions, I know.

00:14:11.509 --> 00:14:18.058
Um, yeah, a lot of the donors, would come from medical students who are working in the hospital, very close to the clinic.

00:14:18.408 --> 00:14:20.089
And there's a nurse who works.

00:14:20.089 --> 00:14:21.379
You like it as a way to make money?

00:14:21.813 --> 00:14:24.844
I guess so, yeah, on the side as they're putting themselves through health school.

00:14:25.274 --> 00:14:27.844
And the nurse who works with Dr.

00:14:27.844 --> 00:14:33.153
Cline, said that she would pop over to the local hospital to collect specimens from these medical students.

00:14:33.653 --> 00:14:35.634
And she knew a lot of them as well.

00:14:35.764 --> 00:14:36.254
Oh did she?

00:14:36.254 --> 00:14:38.683
Ha ha ha ha ha.

00:14:38.913 --> 00:14:39.703
Not like that.

00:14:40.553 --> 00:14:41.774
Ha ha ha! I mean maybe like

00:14:41.774 --> 00:14:41.803
that.

00:14:42.033 --> 00:14:43.333
She knew them personally.

00:14:43.374 --> 00:14:47.433
I'm gonna just pop over to like, where The sexy medical students are.

00:14:47.433 --> 00:14:48.384
And get day sperm.

00:14:48.563 --> 00:14:50.053
And get some, get some samples.

00:14:50.193 --> 00:14:56.443
She does take the specimen back in an interesting way because you have to keep it at room temperature, or body temperature I should say, not room temperature.

00:14:56.443 --> 00:14:56.823
Oh my god,

00:14:56.964 --> 00:14:57.874
does she put it between her

00:14:57.874 --> 00:14:58.374
cleavage?

00:14:58.484 --> 00:15:00.783
She does! OH

00:15:01.796 --> 00:15:09.201
Oh, man, I knew it! So, the nurse is back at the hospital with, um, some sperm between her boobs

00:15:09.221 --> 00:15:12.321
Yes, that's how she would keep it warm, and she'd go back to the clinic.

00:15:12.821 --> 00:15:20.559
And then it would be used on a patient because the thing is back then you couldn't use frozen sperm, it'd have to be fresh sperm.

00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:25.429
I guess they perhaps didn't have the science to be able to maybe deal with it that way.

00:15:25.539 --> 00:15:25.870
Okay.

00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.320
so hence why they had to keep it, at body temperature.

00:15:28.549 --> 00:15:30.700
So what's the shelf life of unfrozen sperm?

00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:31.659
I have no idea.

00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:32.379
Okay.

00:15:32.649 --> 00:15:34.840
but she had to get it across quite quickly.

00:15:34.870 --> 00:15:39.937
I know people personally in life who've had to give a specimen and they can't do it at the hospital.

00:15:40.167 --> 00:15:44.017
They have to do it at home and then keep it warm and then take it to the hospital to get tested.

00:15:44.116 --> 00:15:45.149
Oh, like really quickly.

00:15:45.230 --> 00:15:45.899
like that really.

00:15:45.899 --> 00:15:47.990
So I think you've got quite a short window essentially.

00:15:47.990 --> 00:15:48.250
It's like

00:15:48.250 --> 00:15:49.649
an episode of 24 where like

00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:51.000
every minute counts.

00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:51.549
It does.

00:15:52.049 --> 00:16:00.485
So Debbie and her husband agreed to the procedure, and were both very happy with the outcome as they got to welcome Jacoba into the world, they became just one of Dr.

00:16:00.485 --> 00:16:01.716
Klein's success stories.

00:16:02.216 --> 00:16:18.056
Once Jacoba found out that her biological father was a sperm donor, she naturally has this curiosity about her family history, and whether she's Has any siblings out there, essentially, she wanted to have a bond with a brother or sister, which you didn't get to have naturally, I guess.

00:16:18.716 --> 00:16:29.145
And all her parents could say to her was that it was a sperm donor, and that whilst there could be siblings, a sperm donor was only allowed to have their sperm used up to three times.

00:16:29.485 --> 00:16:32.946
So at most, Chocoba could have maybe two siblings.

00:16:32.975 --> 00:16:33.785
Sure, okay.

00:16:33.865 --> 00:16:34.365
That was it.

00:16:34.735 --> 00:16:38.446
And the reason for that was, because they're in this small area, or some town.

00:16:38.905 --> 00:16:42.885
if there was no cap on this, then you could be bumping into your brothers and sisters all over the

00:16:42.936 --> 00:16:43.265
place.

00:16:43.285 --> 00:16:43.735
Sure, yeah.

00:16:43.735 --> 00:16:45.125
And laws change, right?

00:16:45.174 --> 00:16:51.434
And the last thing you want to do is for a law to change and then all of a sudden you're responsible for 300 kids as a, kind of child

00:16:51.434 --> 00:16:51.725
support.

00:16:52.195 --> 00:16:53.274
Yeah, well, that's that.

00:16:53.725 --> 00:16:57.965
there's also just, you know, inbreeding and also the health conditions that go along with that.

00:16:58.004 --> 00:16:58.764
Yeah, I guess so.

00:16:58.904 --> 00:17:00.235
So I think it's, trying to do good.

00:17:00.735 --> 00:17:18.224
I always thought these kind of things were pretty rare or like never happened But I always remember that story on Hollyoaks where I think there was a guy This Hollyoaks is a like a teen soap opera in the UK Yeah for teens and there was a guy that ended up dating a girl who turned out to be his sister And I thought how does that happen?

00:17:18.224 --> 00:17:19.005
I think it was Reese.

00:17:19.075 --> 00:17:20.934
It was ages ago, and he was dating his

00:17:20.984 --> 00:17:21.865
sister I can't remember

00:17:21.865 --> 00:17:21.944
that.

00:17:21.944 --> 00:17:31.445
I think so And I see these new stories like pop up most years and there was one At the end of last year, I think it was where a man found out that he had married his half sister.

00:17:31.945 --> 00:17:36.776
And it isn't always because they share the same sperm donor, but also because I know people have affairs.

00:17:36.776 --> 00:17:37.016
Right?

00:17:37.016 --> 00:17:37.441
Or they Mm-Hmm.

00:17:37.520 --> 00:17:39.118
have a, relationship that they keep a secret.

00:17:39.618 --> 00:17:44.429
So this man, in this story, never knew his father other than that he was a tall son of a bitch.

00:17:44.929 --> 00:17:45.838
That's what his mum told him.

00:17:46.308 --> 00:17:50.080
Um, and I think because his dad never really wanted anything to do with him.

00:17:50.141 --> 00:17:51.641
So that's why he was a bitch.

00:17:51.671 --> 00:17:51.980
Well, because he's

00:17:52.060 --> 00:17:54.661
completely excluded from the three of them, or the two of them.

00:17:54.661 --> 00:17:55.201
Yeah, three of

00:17:55.201 --> 00:17:55.411
them.

00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:58.050
so she never shared much about the dad to this guy.

00:17:58.421 --> 00:18:03.540
And he marries this girl that he meets, but at the same time, sadly, his mum dies from cancer.

00:18:03.921 --> 00:18:12.260
So when he's clearing out his mom's stuff, he comes across these photos of his mom with this man, which of course turned out to be his wife's dad.

00:18:12.760 --> 00:18:13.480
Okay.

00:18:13.570 --> 00:18:19.050
And so when they asked the dad, and he admits that he, he got a girl pregnant in college, but couldn't handle it and left her.

00:18:19.201 --> 00:18:19.500
Yeah.

00:18:19.530 --> 00:18:22.500
He's then left to this thing like, oh God, I've just found the girl in my dreams.

00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:25.020
I've married her, she's now my half sibling.

00:18:25.300 --> 00:18:27.520
do we stay together, we want to have kids.

00:18:27.651 --> 00:18:28.371
And that's a real life

00:18:28.371 --> 00:18:28.820
story.

00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:29.211
Yeah.

00:18:29.211 --> 00:18:30.050
Well, what can you do?

00:18:30.050 --> 00:18:33.435
I mean, Surely, it's illegal in some states, right?

00:18:33.556 --> 00:18:39.826
it's illegal pretty much anywhere to marry your half sibling, with the exception of Knowingly marry?

00:18:40.326 --> 00:18:41.066
Yeah, I guess so.

00:18:41.076 --> 00:18:41.895
Knowingly, yeah.

00:18:41.895 --> 00:18:41.905
I

00:18:42.006 --> 00:18:45.336
mean, there probably wouldn't be any charges against these people who accidentally

00:18:45.385 --> 00:18:48.246
I guess so, but if you do find out, do you then have to unmarry?

00:18:48.445 --> 00:18:50.635
Or does it, or is it just automatically annulled?

00:18:50.675 --> 00:18:57.115
I don't know, because the only place I found out that you could get married to your half sibling is Sweden, and that's with special permission.

00:18:57.615 --> 00:18:59.286
Okay, that's a whole different thing to unpack.

00:18:59.786 --> 00:19:02.635
But that's crazy, and these things happen.

00:19:02.655 --> 00:19:16.236
People say, something really unusual happens when you are growing up with your siblings in the first, six years of your life, which makes you have an aversion to your siblings and your family members, which helps to stop inbreeding.

00:19:16.736 --> 00:19:44.205
But this is why so many siblings who don't grow up together There's a high chance that you will be attracted to that person if you meet them later in life because we're attracted to people that are genetically similar to us or have similar traits or look very similar to us and therefore there's an attraction there so these people they meet years later and they have this weird attraction but because they didn't grow up together there's a high chance Likelihood that they will fall in love and you see it happen sometimes with even like fathers

00:19:44.205 --> 00:19:44.925
and daughters.

00:19:45.105 --> 00:19:53.955
Oh my god Oh, yeah, so this happened so I can understand the rules why they definitely wanted to put a cap on these sperm donors Oh, yeah, that was the original point.

00:19:54.006 --> 00:20:03.169
That was the point before we got sidetracked crazy world So yeah when she was around 18 or 19, she gets in touch with Dr.

00:20:03.169 --> 00:20:19.608
Klein to see if he had any information that he could provide on her biological father, a donor number, because she knew that she wasn't going to get a name or anything like that, you know, there is that sensitivity, but she wanted something that might perhaps lead her to a sibling she wasn't expecting to find her father.

00:20:19.669 --> 00:20:19.969
Sure.

00:20:20.318 --> 00:20:21.558
And he was very matter of fact.

00:20:21.568 --> 00:20:29.098
He said that he wasn't able to provide anything like that, even if he could, the records had been destroyed, he wished her well, good luck, and that was it.

00:20:29.269 --> 00:20:29.578
Okay.

00:20:29.719 --> 00:20:34.318
And so Jacoba had to be fine with that, knowing that she may never really find anything out.

00:20:34.638 --> 00:20:44.378
So she gets on with her life, she leads a pretty normal life, she marries her high school sweetheart, she has two kids, she works as an emergency medical technician, and, for her, that's it.

00:20:44.378 --> 00:20:46.028
She thinks she should just get on with the rest of her life.

00:20:46.138 --> 00:20:49.189
But then something comes along, a little thing called 23andMe.

00:20:49.638 --> 00:20:50.019
Oh yeah.

00:20:50.078 --> 00:20:58.909
So 23andMe started around 2007, and it became the first company to begin offering, this DNA testing through spit, to find out your ancestry.

00:20:59.148 --> 00:21:04.449
and I think it's the same, piece of technology that now everyone uses, all these other companies out there.

00:21:04.528 --> 00:21:04.929
Yeah, yeah.

00:21:04.929 --> 00:21:06.929
but it was the invention of the year back in 2008.

00:21:07.749 --> 00:21:17.588
Uh, and it was a huge achievement, but it didn't really get widely popular until around 2014 when it started appearing on TV and we've done it a while back and it's pretty fascinating, isn't it?

00:21:17.638 --> 00:21:25.358
you get this home testing kit, you spit in the tube, you register it online, and then within a couple of weeks, once you've sent it off and it's, they run it through their systems.

00:21:25.368 --> 00:21:25.989
A couple of weeks.

00:21:25.999 --> 00:21:27.659
It took Seven weeks, eight weeks,

00:21:27.689 --> 00:21:28.588
two months, I think.

00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:30.648
Oh, well, yeah, it takes a little while.

00:21:30.739 --> 00:21:32.449
It's not as easy as they say it is.

00:21:32.528 --> 00:21:34.148
Yeah, well, it gets sent off to America, doesn't it?

00:21:34.239 --> 00:21:34.648
I think it did.

00:21:34.659 --> 00:21:35.098
Yeah.

00:21:35.138 --> 00:21:38.848
And what is really fun about it, you can actually follow your sample, like.

00:21:39.348 --> 00:21:40.249
throughout the world.

00:21:40.249 --> 00:21:49.699
Like I think it goes to obviously London and then it flies over to the States and then you see it going to I think a couple different sites and then you see it like traveling through the system.

00:21:49.699 --> 00:21:50.219
It's really cool.

00:21:50.719 --> 00:22:01.648
Yeah and when you get the results back you find out where your ancestry originates from, so different countries, you find out the likelihood you are to have freckles, or things like, you're a disliked A hairy back.

00:22:01.699 --> 00:22:04.689
Yeah, or a dislike for coriander, or, cilantro, whatever you call it.

00:22:04.898 --> 00:22:07.239
it's interesting the things that it tells you.

00:22:07.568 --> 00:22:10.328
and it turns out my sister is more Neanderthal than me.

00:22:11.969 --> 00:22:14.078
I I can't remember, but it was quite high in comparison to me.

00:22:14.128 --> 00:22:14.538
but there we go.

00:22:14.868 --> 00:22:16.499
and of course you find out people.

00:22:16.548 --> 00:22:16.828
that's not

00:22:16.828 --> 00:22:17.298
surprising.

00:22:17.348 --> 00:22:18.098
I've met your sister.

00:22:18.598 --> 00:22:19.578
Which one are we talking about?

00:22:19.699 --> 00:22:22.429
Oh, we're not going to go into that.

00:22:22.429 --> 00:22:25.318
But of course you can find people that you are related with.

00:22:25.743 --> 00:22:29.903
And, normally it comes up with you have a thousands of distant cousins.

00:22:29.993 --> 00:22:30.294
Yes.

00:22:30.344 --> 00:22:38.074
and they're like 4, 5, 6 cousin, which means you share potentially a great, great, great, great grandparent or even beyond that.

00:22:38.344 --> 00:22:48.453
Sure, yeah, like when I get, I occasionally get like notifications saying, Oh, you have a relative that's been identified and you go into it and they say Oh, you share, 0.

00:22:48.554 --> 00:22:49.773
2 percent of your DNA.

00:22:49.983 --> 00:22:50.473
Exactly.

00:22:50.544 --> 00:22:58.723
And it's quite rare to actually locate someone who has a second or third cousin, although weirdly one did come up for me this week, which is on my mum's side.

00:22:58.723 --> 00:23:00.624
So I'm going to reach out and find out a little bit more about that.

00:23:00.634 --> 00:23:01.423
How much percentage

00:23:01.453 --> 00:23:02.284
DNA did they have?

00:23:02.294 --> 00:23:02.854
Four or 5%.

00:23:03.284 --> 00:23:04.173
that's quite high, actually.

00:23:04.203 --> 00:23:05.034
Yeah, exactly.

00:23:05.173 --> 00:23:07.294
So it's someone that's relatively close.

00:23:07.384 --> 00:23:07.604
Yeah.

00:23:07.614 --> 00:23:08.663
in the grand scheme of things.

00:23:09.018 --> 00:23:14.748
But essentially, for that to happen, it's pretty rare, you don't normally get that kind of relative that comes up.

00:23:15.248 --> 00:23:22.597
And that's what Jacoba thought, maybe she would find perhaps a cousin that somehow you might be able to link to a half sibling once you had a chat with him.

00:23:23.097 --> 00:23:33.188
And so she wasn't expecting to find necessarily the donor, and she says donor because, you know, a dad, regardless of biology and everything.

00:23:33.688 --> 00:23:45.897
So when Jacoba gets the results back in 2014, at the age of 35, she remembers that day vividly as the report from 23 and me had connected her DNA, not just to one sibling Uhhuh, but to seven half siblings.

00:23:46.178 --> 00:23:46.623
Wow.

00:23:46.798 --> 00:23:49.678
so the DNA on that percentage must be really high.

00:23:50.178 --> 00:23:50.478
Yeah, I

00:23:50.548 --> 00:24:02.827
so basically what I'm hearing here is that, there was this rule that was in place that whoever the donor was, that they were only allowed to be used three times maximum because of course to stop inbreeding, she was aware of this.

00:24:03.107 --> 00:24:03.407
Yeah, I

00:24:03.407 --> 00:24:09.367
So it's a bit of a surprise to her to find out, okay, so she actually has seven potential siblings.

00:24:09.867 --> 00:24:11.278
And that's just actually on the website?

00:24:11.377 --> 00:24:12.417
That's just on the website.

00:24:12.557 --> 00:24:14.028
Wow, okay, interesting.

00:24:14.208 --> 00:24:21.258
and for her, she's quite excited by this because she's like, Yes, I've got siblings, but I'm a bit concerned because I'm not expecting this many.

00:24:21.317 --> 00:24:21.817
Yeah.

00:24:21.827 --> 00:24:22.528
What is going on?

00:24:22.528 --> 00:24:24.788
So it hasn't just been used seven times.

00:24:25.018 --> 00:24:32.718
Well, um, One thing she wants to be certain of is that perhaps, there is a chance, okay, say there's a couple of extra half siblings out there.

00:24:33.218 --> 00:24:37.448
Could these other siblings that she's connected to be the family of the sperm donor?

00:24:37.528 --> 00:24:38.567
Oh, okay, of course, of

00:24:38.567 --> 00:24:39.137
course, of course.

00:24:39.147 --> 00:24:39.728
She does know that

00:24:39.728 --> 00:24:40.468
they're siblings.

00:24:40.478 --> 00:24:46.407
Yes, but because they're half siblings, that suggests that they share different parents, right?

00:24:46.647 --> 00:24:47.097
Okay, so

00:24:47.097 --> 00:24:47.788
they have one.

00:24:48.208 --> 00:24:50.038
Single denominator in common.

00:24:50.127 --> 00:24:51.147
Yes, between them all.

00:24:51.157 --> 00:24:51.788
Interesting.

00:24:52.211 --> 00:24:57.840
Jacoba makes contact with her half siblings and each weekend they would catch up and look at Ancestry.

00:24:58.010 --> 00:25:01.510
com to try and determine how they were connected in their family tree.

00:25:01.770 --> 00:25:07.171
And they even joked at one point, wouldn't it be crazy if the fertility doctor became our dad?

00:25:07.830 --> 00:25:12.931
The fertility doctor's their dad! But they disregarded that, like, nah, what are the chances?

00:25:13.131 --> 00:25:14.891
anyway, I'll get back to that.

00:25:15.080 --> 00:25:15.280
Pshh.

00:25:17.530 --> 00:25:18.020
Oh god.

00:25:18.520 --> 00:25:24.471
They focused on the paternal matches and they found that they all match a lady called Sylvia, their second cousin.

00:25:24.881 --> 00:25:28.461
So they connected with her and they start asking what surnames were in Sylvia's tree.

00:25:28.760 --> 00:25:35.320
She gives them a whole list of names and one of them was Swinford and they connected the name Swinford, to Dr.

00:25:35.641 --> 00:25:38.661
Donald Cline's mother's maiden name.

00:25:38.661 --> 00:25:44.361
So Jacoba asked Sylvia, is there a chance that Cline is in your family tree?

00:25:44.861 --> 00:25:47.401
And Sylvia goes, oh my gosh, yes, of course.

00:25:47.701 --> 00:25:50.951
yeah, that's, that's my grandfather's brother's daughter.

00:25:51.500 --> 00:25:52.351
She married a Klein.

00:25:52.371 --> 00:25:53.661
What, Calvin Klein or Dr.

00:25:53.661 --> 00:25:53.881
Klein?

00:25:53.901 --> 00:25:54.201
Dr.

00:25:54.201 --> 00:25:54.520
Klein.

00:25:55.020 --> 00:25:56.861
She married a guy named Don.

00:25:56.951 --> 00:25:57.840
He's a doctor.

00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:05.691
And then just like that, Jacoba's like, her worst fears or things that they may be suspected were like, okay, it's him, isn't it?

00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:07.941
Okay, yeah, it's looking likely.

00:26:08.111 --> 00:26:08.280
So

00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:08.941
what happens?

00:26:08.941 --> 00:26:17.310
WEll, jacoba and her siblings needed to find out if he's lied, if he is actually the father, because they didn't have any hard evidence at this stage, that could link it to him exactly.

00:26:18.020 --> 00:26:27.351
and Jacoba files a complaint with the local attorney general's office, who I think are a body that provides legal advice and things like that, and she gets a generic response back.

00:26:27.715 --> 00:26:34.546
And nobody really gets back to her with any real significant information and she tries and tries and she's getting nowhere.

00:26:34.546 --> 00:26:41.945
Uh, so Jacoba thinks the next best thing is to draw attention to this, by contacting all the international news outlets.

00:26:42.205 --> 00:26:44.435
But again, no one really responds to her story.

00:26:44.935 --> 00:26:48.026
And then she lands on contacting a woman, Angela Ganotte.

00:26:48.076 --> 00:26:52.153
Uh, reporter and news presenter for a local news station called Fox 59.

00:26:53.153 --> 00:26:55.083
And she gets in touch with her via Facebook.

00:26:55.532 --> 00:26:57.722
Chikova gives her a full recount of everything.

00:26:58.012 --> 00:27:07.133
what's happened, who are the siblings et cetera, and Angela she's equally frustrated that Chocoba's not getting answers from anyone, and so she takes on the story, and so she reaches out to Dr.

00:27:07.133 --> 00:27:14.653
Kline, and he denies, being the father, that the sperm donors were all above board, and that it's not possible for Chocoba to have more than just a couple of siblings.

00:27:14.833 --> 00:27:17.982
So he flat out denies it when he's, pressured by this reporter.

00:27:18.063 --> 00:27:18.383
Yeah.

00:27:18.883 --> 00:27:20.012
Of course he would do, right?

00:27:20.313 --> 00:27:20.853
Exactly.

00:27:20.903 --> 00:27:23.452
of course, someone in his position probably would deny that.

00:27:23.853 --> 00:27:27.863
she follows up with an offer to say, like, why don't you just get your DNA tested?

00:27:27.893 --> 00:27:30.843
That will clear you from all these allegations, and, we can put it to bed.

00:27:31.032 --> 00:27:32.573
This is the best way that you could help.

00:27:32.573 --> 00:27:34.073
And he was like, nope, not doing that.

00:27:34.573 --> 00:27:42.703
So Angela takes the story to air, and they cannot use the name for legal reasons at this time, because without a DNA sample, they can't really move forward.

00:27:42.733 --> 00:27:44.304
But it's a story that's in the news now.

00:27:44.804 --> 00:27:54.183
And this resulted in one of Jacoba's half siblings to reach out to Klein's children that were over 18 and say like we think your dad might be our dad.

00:27:54.624 --> 00:27:55.522
I see.

00:27:55.624 --> 00:28:00.773
And so his children take a bit of time but they eventually agree to meet with Jacoba and the siblings.

00:28:00.814 --> 00:28:01.232
And these

00:28:01.233 --> 00:28:03.993
siblings hadn't done a 23andMe.

00:28:04.314 --> 00:28:05.304
At this point.

00:28:05.703 --> 00:28:06.773
No, not at this point.

00:28:06.773 --> 00:28:08.263
And these, this was the family of Donald.

00:28:08.483 --> 00:28:09.064
So they're going to try

00:28:09.304 --> 00:28:10.894
and convince them to do that then,

00:28:10.894 --> 00:28:11.473
I'm assuming.

00:28:11.513 --> 00:28:16.903
Yeah, or at least try and get more answers or try and use them to get to Donald, I guess.

00:28:17.853 --> 00:28:26.022
And now that Donald, Klein's children are involved, when they speak with him, he actually admits to them that, yeah, all right, that probably is my sperm.

00:28:26.272 --> 00:28:27.633
So he admits to his own children.

00:28:27.653 --> 00:28:29.073
Shit, what did they say?

00:28:29.173 --> 00:28:33.202
He says to his children that his sperm couldn't have been used more than 10 times.

00:28:33.702 --> 00:28:35.798
10 times is the maximum amount of times that he could have been used.

00:28:35.798 --> 00:28:37.093
I thought it was three times the max.

00:28:37.212 --> 00:28:38.272
I know, But he's special.

00:28:38.403 --> 00:28:39.313
Yeah, he's special.

00:28:39.323 --> 00:28:40.232
He's a doctor's sperm.

00:28:40.413 --> 00:28:47.163
this is obviously not cool at all, there is now some admission and finding out the truth for Jacoba and her other half siblings.

00:28:47.663 --> 00:28:57.634
But back to the news story that was on Fox 59, it captures the attention of a lady named Julie Her husband thought that his wife, Julie, looked a lot like Jacoba who was on the news.

00:28:58.134 --> 00:29:00.384
Blue eyes, blonde hair, fair skin.

00:29:00.875 --> 00:29:07.055
And Julie calls her mum as she knew that her mother had used a fertility doctor whilst trying to get pregnant with her.

00:29:07.874 --> 00:29:10.213
She says to her, should I get a DNA test?

00:29:10.243 --> 00:29:13.433
And mum's like, no, we use your father's sperm.

00:29:13.443 --> 00:29:14.534
He just helped us.

00:29:14.973 --> 00:29:16.074
Oh, inseminated.

00:29:16.114 --> 00:29:16.673
Exactly.

00:29:16.673 --> 00:29:16.993
Yeah.

00:29:17.003 --> 00:29:17.473
I see.

00:29:17.784 --> 00:29:18.844
This doesn't apply to you.

00:29:18.903 --> 00:29:39.250
Don't worry about it But the uncanny resemblances really troubled Julie And so she searches for Jacoba online and reaches out to her to try and get some advice Okay, and Jacoba's like well, I've got no idea I can't confirm but just get a DNA test and then that will tell you everything so Julie gets a DNA test and She gets results back.

00:29:39.270 --> 00:29:44.020
Yeah, and one of the people connected to her is Jacoba as a half sibling.

00:29:44.030 --> 00:29:44.810
Really, so that

00:29:44.810 --> 00:29:50.211
little list of seven relatives on 23andMe is just growing and growing.

00:29:50.250 --> 00:29:50.451
That's

00:29:50.451 --> 00:29:52.981
right, keeps adding another one or two every now and then.

00:29:53.372 --> 00:30:01.152
but this for Julie it completely changes her world because She thought her biological dad was her dad.

00:30:01.162 --> 00:30:01.511
Yeah.

00:30:01.571 --> 00:30:03.642
Her mum thought her biological dad was her dad.

00:30:03.721 --> 00:30:04.122
Ooh.

00:30:04.172 --> 00:30:05.332
So this changes her life.

00:30:05.332 --> 00:30:12.731
She's 30 at this point, and she felt like it just washed away all of her identity, and the dad felt like everything had been taken away from him.

00:30:13.281 --> 00:30:15.237
what a cruel thing to do.

00:30:15.237 --> 00:30:15.682
Wow

00:30:15.731 --> 00:30:21.031
And so, with this now discovered, this means there's now at least nine siblings.

00:30:21.142 --> 00:30:23.291
Only one was allowed! Exactly.

00:30:23.442 --> 00:30:25.211
Cline said that there should only be 10, right?

00:30:25.711 --> 00:30:29.291
Jacoba finally gets a meeting with Cline, along with some of her other half siblings.

00:30:29.541 --> 00:30:31.951
And she describes it as a very weird meeting.

00:30:32.402 --> 00:30:37.261
He was really interested to know their age and careers and try and gauge how successful they all were.

00:30:37.652 --> 00:30:39.301
That's how it felt to her, at least.

00:30:39.731 --> 00:30:45.781
And now, you could think, or perhaps he's just trying to get to know them a little bit, but Jacoba felt like they were being ranked.

00:30:46.281 --> 00:30:59.781
Ooh, makes me feel like this is what, some, Sheldon from, Big Bang Theory would do, because he's such a genius, he would, like, wanting to have a few babies and then just see how much of his genetic material he can pass off onto the next person?

00:31:00.281 --> 00:31:02.001
Yeah, well, possibly, I don't know.

00:31:02.051 --> 00:31:18.355
this, I think it's a bit darker in this instance, because at this meeting, Klein reads a quote from the Bible from Jeremiah, chapter one, verse five, I think it is, uh, where it says, God says, before I formed you in the womb, I knew you before you were born, I sanctioned you, and I ordained you a prophet to the nations.

00:31:18.855 --> 00:31:29.935
And this is one of the verses that apparently a lot of people don't like because it brings to attention, the control of God and Jacoba, who is a Christian, this infuriated her as it implied that Dr.

00:31:29.935 --> 00:31:31.306
Klein was playing God.

00:31:31.615 --> 00:31:34.695
And so one of Jacoba's siblings asked him at this meeting, why did he do it?

00:31:35.195 --> 00:31:38.695
And he said that he did it because he felt sorry for the mothers.

00:31:38.885 --> 00:31:48.749
They were desperate for a child, he was just trying to help them because perhaps they had tried to use their partner's sperm or another donor and that didn't work and he knew his probably would.

00:31:48.882 --> 00:31:49.632
And so he did it.

00:31:49.701 --> 00:31:49.852
But

00:31:49.852 --> 00:31:57.041
what about all the sperm donors from the sexy, um, medical students working down the road that Donna was collecting in her

00:31:57.041 --> 00:31:57.402
breasts?

00:31:57.501 --> 00:32:01.172
I'm guessing they got used some of the time, but not all the time.

00:32:01.221 --> 00:32:02.102
This is sick.

00:32:02.281 --> 00:32:02.701
Yeah.

00:32:03.201 --> 00:32:07.821
He also added at this point, at this meeting, that there can't be any more than 15 siblings.

00:32:08.321 --> 00:32:09.761
Okay, so the number's growing now.

00:32:09.781 --> 00:32:10.832
He's changed his story.

00:32:10.882 --> 00:32:11.932
Now that they've found a few more.

00:32:11.981 --> 00:32:13.922
what angers those that were affected by Dr.

00:32:13.922 --> 00:32:17.301
Klein the most, I think, is that how it made them feel.

00:32:17.727 --> 00:32:18.057
Sure.

00:32:18.106 --> 00:32:27.836
As I mentioned, when Jacoba was conceived, along with a lot of her siblings, back then, sperm donations had to be fresh, not frozen, which is why you had Klein's nurse carrying specimens over in her bra.

00:32:27.936 --> 00:32:31.717
Or you had husbands or boyfriends bringing a sample from home in pretty quickly.

00:32:32.207 --> 00:32:48.086
So I think when people realised what he could have been doing in that clinic, it made them feel gross, because they had to use fresh sperm, he would disappear into a room, come back with it, and then inseminate a woman who's in a very vulnerable position.

00:32:48.096 --> 00:32:50.196
She's being medically analyzed.

00:32:50.426 --> 00:32:58.586
She's got a hospital gown on, her legs are raised in stirrups, and you've got this doctor taking advantage, getting his rocks off next door.

00:32:59.086 --> 00:33:00.136
How gross is that?

00:33:00.237 --> 00:33:01.136
Yeah, it is gross.

00:33:01.156 --> 00:33:08.307
And these women are sitting there on this table for 20 minutes as they're thinking positive thoughts and just hoping this time round it works.

00:33:08.807 --> 00:33:11.507
Not knowing actually what is exactly going on.

00:33:11.856 --> 00:33:12.126
Sure,

00:33:12.166 --> 00:33:21.646
God, so the thing is, let's talk about some of the numbers here because you're thinking, if he's saying that, A, there is potentially 15 out there now, because that's grown.

00:33:22.146 --> 00:33:24.297
Not every insemination is successful.

00:33:24.751 --> 00:33:32.162
Let's just assume if you're really lucky and you're really fertile, maybe one out of every five.

00:33:32.662 --> 00:33:37.451
So if he's managed to potentially have 15 kids, he's been doing this a lot.

00:33:37.622 --> 00:33:38.801
Multiply that by five.

00:33:39.301 --> 00:33:49.882
Yeah, one of the mothers actually says because she went to him 15 times before she got pregnant and I guess she doesn't know if he used his sperm 15 times or someone else's.

00:33:50.311 --> 00:33:54.471
But to her, it made her feel like she'd been raped 15 times is what she says.

00:33:54.971 --> 00:33:55.491
And if he was

00:33:55.491 --> 00:33:59.011
doing it selectively because he felt sorry for individual mothers.

00:33:59.511 --> 00:34:05.362
Then he was, he probably did do that to her 15 times because he had probably selected her out, like, I'm going to let me help her

00:34:05.362 --> 00:34:05.541
out.

00:34:05.551 --> 00:34:06.031
Yeah.

00:34:06.241 --> 00:34:07.582
and she felt like she was raped.

00:34:07.659 --> 00:34:10.402
Yeah, and I don't think she means that in the physical sense.

00:34:10.452 --> 00:34:16.103
But I think it's the impact how it affected her mentally and how it made her feel sick in her stomach.

00:34:16.489 --> 00:34:32.989
This mental trauma that she suffered from it is the equivalent, And also, I think the bit that she felt very weird about is that when Klein was doing this in the room next door, he would have had these endorphins released, and that perhaps there was a gratification with what he was doing to these women.

00:34:33.418 --> 00:34:36.119
yeah, that's where her mind was going with this.

00:34:36.148 --> 00:34:37.949
Was there something sexual in this?

00:34:38.449 --> 00:34:43.869
Klein denied that he said that this was purely just to help women and his colleagues had no idea what he was doing.

00:34:44.059 --> 00:34:48.418
He came across incredibly professional, confident, strict, mind you.

00:34:48.469 --> 00:34:49.429
you wouldn't want to cross him.

00:34:49.739 --> 00:34:54.568
But he was very assured and respected in his field and plus he was a devout Christian as well.

00:34:54.619 --> 00:34:55.309
Oh really?

00:34:55.643 --> 00:35:00.753
Ooh, I mean, when you say he was a devout Christian, as if like, oh, how could they do this?

00:35:00.784 --> 00:35:01.893
I'm not surprised.

00:35:02.153 --> 00:35:02.704
Yeah.

00:35:02.773 --> 00:35:05.443
I mean, that,has the opposite effect on me, unfortunately.

00:35:05.543 --> 00:35:07.463
I'm really intrigued to see what he looks like.

00:35:07.487 --> 00:35:08.166
Can I Google him?

00:35:08.226 --> 00:35:08.927
Yeah, you can Google him.

00:35:08.987 --> 00:35:08.996
I

00:35:09.226 --> 00:35:10.237
okay, yeah.

00:35:10.637 --> 00:35:11.317
so that's him.

00:35:11.817 --> 00:35:13.757
He looks like a tortoise.

00:35:15.070 --> 00:35:16.489
Yeah, I mean, he's an old man now.

00:35:16.489 --> 00:35:18.349
I think he's in his 70s, 80s.

00:35:18.349 --> 00:35:19.500
Wow, okay.

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:20.469
Oh.

00:35:20.969 --> 00:35:24.320
Interesting, yeah, he just looks like just a regular old guy with white hair.

00:35:24.409 --> 00:35:26.260
Reminds me a bit like Dr.

00:35:26.260 --> 00:35:26.989
Harold Shipman,

00:35:26.989 --> 00:35:27.769
if I'm honest.

00:35:27.980 --> 00:35:29.630
Oh, yeah, that's an interesting point.

00:35:30.150 --> 00:35:31.980
I hope he's not as prolific, that's for sure.

00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:37.471
Yeah, well, as we were talking about being a Christian and everything, you'd think he'd be like, a good person, right?

00:35:37.570 --> 00:35:37.851
Yeah.

00:35:37.891 --> 00:35:44.701
but he wasn't afraid to threaten news stations, which was Fox 59, and the reporter, Angela, with being sued.

00:35:45.081 --> 00:35:48.280
He alluded to knowing people in high places he could call upon.

00:35:48.780 --> 00:35:51.911
And so Klein tried to get the ongoing investigation dropped.

00:35:52.222 --> 00:35:56.032
he reached out to Jacobo, and he described it as a real problem for him.

00:35:56.532 --> 00:36:00.623
And that it risked his relationship with his wife after 57 years of marriage.

00:36:00.652 --> 00:36:02.552
Well, I mean, he should have done what he done, right?

00:36:02.552 --> 00:36:03.682
I know! The cheek of him.

00:36:03.682 --> 00:36:07.793
And you actually, there's a documentary where you hear the phone call of where he's going Oh, really?

00:36:07.802 --> 00:36:08.182
I think so.

00:36:08.182 --> 00:36:10.902
Unless it's dramatised, but I think it was his voice.

00:36:11.282 --> 00:36:17.373
And you just think, the nerve of you to do that, to say oh, you're affecting my life, can you drop this please?

00:36:17.443 --> 00:36:17.893
Yeah.

00:36:18.302 --> 00:36:22.282
Jacoba being a strong woman that she is, she wasn't having any of it.

00:36:22.393 --> 00:36:37.800
She calmly said I'm not going to stop what the press is doing because Jacoba felt she had the right to publicize it because there could be more siblings out there not knowing and because more were still getting in touch with her through 23andMe, she felt like it was her duty to let people know.

00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:38.809
Yeah, for sure.

00:36:39.309 --> 00:36:49.860
And they're gonna, it's gonna come out anyway, regardless, every person that gets onto 23andMe, they're gonna have the same DNA matches, and it's just gonna be one of them that's gonna be like, this

00:36:49.869 --> 00:36:50.349
is weird.

00:36:50.420 --> 00:36:51.789
Yeah, especially as it's growing.

00:36:51.929 --> 00:36:52.599
Yeah, exactly.

00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:54.889
It's gonna come out regardless of whether or not Jacoba

00:36:55.389 --> 00:36:56.480
has anything to do with it.

00:36:56.519 --> 00:36:58.610
Yeah, he's trying to keep it quiet, but how long can you do that for?

00:36:58.610 --> 00:36:59.639
Genie's out the bottle, man.

00:36:59.889 --> 00:37:03.090
And Klein's comments and stuff just fuels Jacoba further.

00:37:03.590 --> 00:37:06.420
She's still not getting anywhere with the general attorney office.

00:37:06.864 --> 00:37:20.775
And Jacoba decides that she's going to do her own research, and I mean, papers on the wall, photos, bits of string, a proper mind map investigation from like, blogs, papers he wrote, conferences he went to, where he studied, everything.

00:37:20.784 --> 00:37:21.625
She means business.

00:37:21.635 --> 00:37:22.824
She does indeed.

00:37:23.264 --> 00:37:26.715
And Jacoba felt there's more than 15 siblings out there, I know it.

00:37:26.945 --> 00:37:27.675
Really?

00:37:27.775 --> 00:37:31.554
And this is why Klein wanted to keep it quiet, because he didn't want more people finding out.

00:37:32.054 --> 00:37:37.025
Jacoba identifies that the majority of her siblings live within a 25 mile radius.

00:37:37.105 --> 00:37:39.875
So, in the grand scheme of things, pretty close.

00:37:40.335 --> 00:37:46.945
Some actually live within minute of Klein, and probably had, bumped into him every now and again, not knowing that's my dad.

00:37:47.445 --> 00:37:47.804
Yeah.

00:37:47.804 --> 00:38:01.164
one of the siblings says that they would get a new, sibling alert via 23andMe, and they pray, oh please don't let it be someone I know, or dated, or anything like that, because there's stories of these siblings just walking around and actually just going, you look a lot like me.

00:38:01.425 --> 00:38:01.545
Oh.

00:38:01.664 --> 00:38:03.155
Could you be my brother?

00:38:03.255 --> 00:38:04.005
Yeah.

00:38:04.105 --> 00:38:11.855
Cline eventually agrees to meet Angela, actually, at Fox 59, in a restaurant, and he intimidates her by making it appear.

00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:13.710
Like he has a gun in his pocket.

00:38:13.750 --> 00:38:19.280
I don't know if he actually did, but he definitely made it appear to her like, you should be, be warned.

00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:19.679
okay.

00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:26.820
He tries to convince Angela to drop the story, but Angela's like jacoba, they felt the truth mattered.

00:38:27.090 --> 00:38:32.579
And it's after this meeting, with the reporter that some really strange things started to happen to the siblings.

00:38:33.070 --> 00:38:44.139
this is allegedly so there's no way to confirm that it is connected to him, but it's very suss because Jacoba woke up one morning to find the wheel nuts of her car on the floor next to her car tires.

00:38:44.500 --> 00:38:46.840
So who would've done that in the middle of the night?

00:38:47.340 --> 00:38:47.940
God.

00:38:48.905 --> 00:38:49.775
A good Christian man.

00:38:49.815 --> 00:38:50.155
A good

00:38:50.155 --> 00:38:51.215
Christian man, maybe.

00:38:51.626 --> 00:38:55.186
Julie, the lady that found out that her father was not her biological father.

00:38:55.385 --> 00:38:55.675
Yeah.

00:38:55.726 --> 00:38:59.655
Kept a record of everything she had on Klein on her computer on a Google Drive.

00:38:59.735 --> 00:39:00.115
Yeah.

00:39:00.226 --> 00:39:06.746
And one day she discovered that everything in that drive was gone, including every email that she had on Klein was also wiped.

00:39:06.945 --> 00:39:07.505
How?

00:39:07.695 --> 00:39:11.976
I don't know, but she thinks someone might have got in and deleted that.

00:39:12.476 --> 00:39:12.985
Dunno how.

00:39:13.356 --> 00:39:22.106
And then another sibling actually describes having nuisance calls, one from a cemetery that was getting in touch with her about a plot that she wished to be buried in.

00:39:22.496 --> 00:39:23.715
Wow.

00:39:23.755 --> 00:39:25.226
So that's the scariest one, I think.

00:39:25.235 --> 00:39:27.675
Yeah, that's like a dog whistle death threat.

00:39:27.976 --> 00:39:28.365
Yeah.

00:39:28.666 --> 00:39:31.376
And so he wanted those siblings to stop talking.

00:39:31.876 --> 00:39:36.076
But they were undeterred by this, and Jacoba finds out back in 1963.

00:39:36.521 --> 00:39:39.300
Donald Klein was involved in an unfortunate accident.

00:39:39.541 --> 00:39:44.670
He accidentally ran over a little girl when she darted out in front of his car whilst driving.

00:39:45.170 --> 00:39:49.400
She really sadly dies and this has a big impact on him.

00:39:49.610 --> 00:39:54.130
And people think, maybe does this lead him to go on to what he does?

00:39:54.130 --> 00:39:58.697
Because he gets, um, I guess restored or even deeper faith in God.

00:39:59.197 --> 00:40:08.458
And so some have tried to make I guess logic of that reason because is he trying to make amends for this loss of life by bringing all these extra lives into the world?

00:40:08.958 --> 00:40:16.117
Now, it's a bit of a stretch and I think it could be people trying to humanise him in a way to find some rationale for his actions.

00:40:16.168 --> 00:40:16.827
Yeah, like

00:40:16.827 --> 00:40:17.748
where's this all coming from?

00:40:17.748 --> 00:40:21.668
Is this coming from a PR team or is this, did you see who uncovered this information?

00:40:21.668 --> 00:40:22.467
Was this Jakoba?

00:40:22.967 --> 00:40:26.007
Jakoba found out that he was in an accident, yes.

00:40:27.018 --> 00:40:40.577
Um, and because people think this might have affected his relationship with the church and God, because he was ingrained in the church, he taught marriage counselling, he, did Sunday school, he would even encourage his staff at his clinic to pray with him.

00:40:41.077 --> 00:40:49.557
His office even had things on the wall that said if you want to get into heaven, you had to be a Christian, which offended people of other faiths, like a colleague of his who was Jewish.

00:40:49.918 --> 00:40:50.427
Okay.

00:40:50.927 --> 00:40:59.907
And it turns out that the church he was at was governed by this body of eight men, and there would be baptisms at his house, in his swimming pool, which was attended by 50 to 100 people.

00:41:00.407 --> 00:41:03.117
And Chocoba lands on this lead in particular.

00:41:03.157 --> 00:41:05.547
She gets an email from the Attorney General's office.

00:41:05.972 --> 00:41:08.432
And it's looped in with other people in that email.

00:41:08.932 --> 00:41:14.467
And so what she does is she does some serious internet stalking because she looks at everyone on that email chain.

00:41:14.467 --> 00:41:14.788
Mm-Hmm.

00:41:14.873 --> 00:41:21.773
And she starts looking at them on Facebook and other social media, and she finds someone with a qui full email address.

00:41:21.983 --> 00:41:22.672
What a qui.

00:41:22.672 --> 00:41:23.188
A qui full.

00:41:23.543 --> 00:41:24.472
A qui full.

00:41:24.972 --> 00:41:25.802
I don't know what that is.

00:41:25.822 --> 00:41:27.983
It's like quiver with full on the end.

00:41:28.092 --> 00:41:28.663
Oh, you're

00:41:28.663 --> 00:41:29.512
saying the word.

00:41:29.512 --> 00:41:31.072
Quiverful.

00:41:31.072 --> 00:41:31.523
Quiverful.

00:41:31.612 --> 00:41:34.182
I thought you were saying, it's a thing that I've never heard of.

00:41:34.333 --> 00:41:35.882
It's a whole brand new word!

00:41:36.382 --> 00:41:38.813
Yeah, but do you know what quiverful is?

00:41:39.313 --> 00:41:40.463
It sounds sexual.

00:41:41.282 --> 00:41:42.293
It's not, it's not.

00:41:42.472 --> 00:41:42.963
Okay.

00:41:43.163 --> 00:41:44.802
Well, no it shouldn't be.

00:41:45.092 --> 00:41:51.503
Um, quiverful is a Christian theological position that sees large families as a blessing from God.

00:41:52.003 --> 00:41:57.242
It encourages abstaining from all forms of birth control, natural family planning and sterilization.

00:41:57.603 --> 00:42:05.483
And at the core is a desire to obey God's commandment as stated in the Bible, and among those commandments is be fruitful and multiply.

00:42:05.563 --> 00:42:14.074
Okay, And so they describe their, the movement, and their motivation as a missionary effort to raise up as many children as Christians To advance the cause of the Christian religion.

00:42:14.423 --> 00:42:18.403
And children are a blessing, and we should have our quiver full of them.

00:42:18.824 --> 00:42:19.434
Make sense now?

00:42:19.934 --> 00:42:20.224
No.

00:42:22.451 --> 00:42:23.271
Quiver full?

00:42:23.460 --> 00:42:25.141
A quiver full of children?

00:42:25.641 --> 00:42:26.911
You keep saying it.

00:42:27.411 --> 00:42:27.820
Doesn't

00:42:27.820 --> 00:42:28.951
make it any clearer to me.

00:42:28.981 --> 00:42:34.161
basically, if a man has a lot of children, he'll be sending them out as arrows to the world to be ambassadors for God.

00:42:34.530 --> 00:42:35.081
Where does

00:42:35.081 --> 00:42:36.391
the arrow come from in quiver

00:42:36.391 --> 00:42:36.661
full?

00:42:36.871 --> 00:42:38.751
Because a quiver is where you store your arrows.

00:42:39.251 --> 00:42:42.291
You didn't explain that! I thought you knew what a quiver was.

00:42:42.670 --> 00:42:50.800
No! Yeah, a quiver is where you store your arrows.

00:42:50.860 --> 00:42:53.670
And this movement called the Quiver Fall is about sending out these arrows.

00:42:53.710 --> 00:42:53.960
Yeah.

00:42:54.070 --> 00:42:55.115
Can you see the connection here?

00:42:55.615 --> 00:42:56.115
So very

00:42:56.115 --> 00:42:57.496
vaguely, but yes, okay.

00:42:57.496 --> 00:43:05.706
but supposedly these children are raised to actively participate in government, seek political prominence and integrate with higher society and spread the word of God.

00:43:05.775 --> 00:43:12.731
Which you could say is a callback to why he was so interested in his offspring when he met them, because he was asking, what do you do?

00:43:12.951 --> 00:43:13.610
What have you studied?

00:43:13.641 --> 00:43:14.081
All these things.

00:43:14.090 --> 00:43:14.760
Right, I see.

00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:16.400
And also actually this last point.

00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:21.791
So one of the quotes that the Quiverfall people really draw upon from the Bible.

00:43:21.820 --> 00:43:22.101
Yeah.

00:43:22.110 --> 00:43:28.070
Is Jeremiah chapter one, verse five, Before I formed you in your mother's womb, I knew you.

00:43:28.570 --> 00:43:32.844
But I think what we're kind of suggesting is is he part of this quiverful cult?

00:43:32.894 --> 00:43:36.434
Which is all about getting a lot of children out there to spread the word of God.

00:43:36.485 --> 00:43:37.465
clearly he is.

00:43:37.692 --> 00:43:41.331
But it would be really funny if they were all on the doll.

00:43:42.021 --> 00:43:42.422
Yeah.

00:43:42.481 --> 00:43:46.112
All of his kids were on benefits, government handouts, that would be brilliant.

00:43:46.172 --> 00:43:47.161
He didn't do a good job.

00:43:47.202 --> 00:43:47.572
Yeah, it's

00:43:47.572 --> 00:43:48.172
oh no.

00:43:48.431 --> 00:43:51.152
He wouldn't want that to get back to the quiverful, head

00:43:51.152 --> 00:43:51.831
offs, would he?

00:43:51.851 --> 00:43:52.442
Head offs, no.

00:43:52.492 --> 00:43:53.032
Exactly.

00:43:53.101 --> 00:43:58.592
there's no proof that he conspired with the Attorney General's office or he's part of this Quiver 4 movement.

00:43:58.961 --> 00:44:01.461
but I think there's enough evidence there.

00:44:01.998 --> 00:44:12.278
or at least coincidences, and especially with people's, data on their computer going missing and the death threats, there's just a lot of weird things to happen all of a sudden.

00:44:12.489 --> 00:44:17.318
And with this being discovered, it just feels like there's a darker undertone or something in society.

00:44:17.498 --> 00:44:18.219
Maybe.

00:44:18.489 --> 00:44:19.219
Allegedly.

00:44:19.528 --> 00:44:19.969
We don't know.

00:44:20.139 --> 00:44:20.458
For sure.

00:44:20.958 --> 00:44:22.259
Sounds like you're protecting yourself.

00:44:22.318 --> 00:44:25.268
Are you worried that someone's going to come and sue us because of this podcast episode?

00:44:25.349 --> 00:44:25.918
Maybe.

00:44:26.318 --> 00:44:27.259
He's tried it before.

00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:28.088
Allegedly.

00:44:28.090 --> 00:44:28.304
Maybe.

00:44:28.804 --> 00:44:36.123
And so it was up to Angela, to press at the Attorney's General Office and finally she gets hold of someone that can help prosecute.

00:44:36.623 --> 00:44:43.393
But the challenge is, technically, based on the law at that time, there was nothing in the law to say that what he'd done was a crime?

00:44:43.623 --> 00:44:44.043
Oh really?

00:44:44.043 --> 00:44:45.693
So he's completely, well I guess because

00:44:45.693 --> 00:44:46.784
he's just a donor, right?

00:44:46.934 --> 00:44:50.014
Yeah, and there's nothing, there's no wrongdoing as such.

00:44:50.023 --> 00:44:54.653
There's no sexual violation despite what people felt and that's not

00:44:54.653 --> 00:44:55.293
taking it away.

00:44:55.293 --> 00:44:56.534
It's the lack of transparency

00:44:57.034 --> 00:44:57.664
and openness.

00:44:57.753 --> 00:45:06.344
Because people are trying to get him for sexual assault, battery, fraud, but to convict someone of those crimes it needed to have been with force and non consent.

00:45:06.844 --> 00:45:08.664
And so there was no force.

00:45:09.068 --> 00:45:12.239
And they were consented to be inseminated by a donor.

00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:13.048
But they were also under

00:45:13.048 --> 00:45:14.659
the understanding that it would

00:45:14.668 --> 00:45:14.818
not

00:45:14.829 --> 00:45:15.458
be

00:45:15.478 --> 00:45:16.068
him, right?

00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:16.789
Exactly.

00:45:16.829 --> 00:45:20.179
And I think this is the thing, they're like, I wouldn't have had him as my father.

00:45:20.458 --> 00:45:21.498
Yeah, looks like a Mr.

00:45:21.498 --> 00:45:21.918
Turtle.

00:45:23.036 --> 00:45:26.905
Or they're like, the option, maybe some would have done, but no one actually asked them.

00:45:27.115 --> 00:45:28.346
And that's the whole point.

00:45:28.846 --> 00:45:32.766
But Angela finds out that the Attorney General did manage to speak to Dr.

00:45:32.766 --> 00:45:47.766
Klein a while back, and in writing, he denied everything to them, that he never used his sperm, and in writing, he also says something to the effect about jacopa, which could be considered libel, and this is what actually gets him, not because of his crime, but he had lied.

00:45:48.121 --> 00:45:53.931
in writing and this kind of slight threat to Jacoba is what like, okay, we can get you charged based on this.

00:45:53.981 --> 00:45:54.420
I see.

00:45:54.451 --> 00:45:54.840
I see.

00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:55.280
Good.

00:45:55.780 --> 00:46:07.030
So a search warrant is put out for his DNA and he has to give it and so it gets sent away and it comes back and the likelihood that he is Jacoba's father is 99.

00:46:07.030 --> 00:46:07.550
9997%.

00:46:07.550 --> 00:46:09.141
Wow, so that's as high as you can get, right?

00:46:09.141 --> 00:46:10.510
Because you can never be 100 percent certain.

00:46:10.541 --> 00:46:10.981
Wow.

00:46:11.050 --> 00:46:11.581
Pretty much.

00:46:11.681 --> 00:46:12.045
that's her dad.

00:46:12.425 --> 00:46:12.985
let's prove what we've known all

00:46:12.985 --> 00:46:14.135
along.

00:46:14.605 --> 00:46:16.534
He is charged with the obstruction of justice.

00:46:16.715 --> 00:46:17.594
Oh, how?

00:46:17.655 --> 00:46:18.005
Why?

00:46:18.315 --> 00:46:19.045
Because he lied.

00:46:19.545 --> 00:46:20.684
Of course! okay.

00:46:20.744 --> 00:46:28.188
So he is charged with obstruction of justice 20 months after Jacoba first reaches out to Angela on So this has been going on for a couple of years.

00:46:28.398 --> 00:46:28.668
Yeah.

00:46:28.947 --> 00:46:33.148
He pleads guilty but could never be tried for all the crimes he committed.

00:46:33.547 --> 00:46:47.668
The court could only consider him on the crime, that he was being charged for the obstruction of justice where he lied in writing, whilst he's convicted of a level 6 felony charge, He gets a suspended jail sentence and is fined just 500.

00:46:47.858 --> 00:46:48.657
Oh right, is that it?

00:46:48.847 --> 00:46:49.347
That is it.

00:46:49.597 --> 00:46:50.858
That's how much I'd pay for a sperm.

00:46:51.773 --> 00:46:52.043
A sperm?

00:46:52.043 --> 00:46:54.632
No, not a sperm, I mean a sperm lotion.

00:46:54.992 --> 00:46:56.753
so That's gross, no I wouldn't.

00:46:57.083 --> 00:47:02.782
If I was a woman getting inseminated, I would pay 500 for Debbie's boob sperm.

00:47:03.282 --> 00:47:03.753
That she's keeping

00:47:03.753 --> 00:47:03.952
warm.

00:47:04.262 --> 00:47:04.543
gross.

00:47:05.882 --> 00:47:09.775
Um, so yeah, I think that is a complete piss take.

00:47:10.125 --> 00:47:10.264
Yeah.

00:47:10.275 --> 00:47:13.764
Because that's no real justice for these siblings.

00:47:13.815 --> 00:47:14.045
No.

00:47:14.045 --> 00:47:17.605
And their families, the people that have found out that, they've been lied to and their dads and everything like

00:47:17.605 --> 00:47:17.824
that.

00:47:17.905 --> 00:47:18.434
Yeah.

00:47:18.545 --> 00:47:21.585
Did we ever find out how many siblings they have in the end?

00:47:21.655 --> 00:47:23.204
I'm leaving that to the very end.

00:47:23.315 --> 00:47:23.914
Oh really?

00:47:24.005 --> 00:47:24.344
Yeah.

00:47:24.574 --> 00:47:31.894
And so for Jacoba and her siblings, who continued to get alerts of DNA matches to other half siblings throughout all of this, they had to settle with this verdict.

00:47:32.394 --> 00:47:33.394
what about child support?

00:47:33.454 --> 00:47:34.914
Could they not sue for child support?

00:47:35.914 --> 00:47:37.715
And make him pay for Being their dad.

00:47:38.215 --> 00:47:39.824
Because that's one way they could get in, right?

00:47:39.864 --> 00:47:41.324
And also, back pay.

00:47:41.465 --> 00:47:41.644
Get

00:47:41.675 --> 00:47:42.704
back pay child support.

00:47:42.755 --> 00:47:47.436
But I guess because there's probably paperwork which waives any rights to child support I guess so.

00:47:47.695 --> 00:47:51.460
That's the thing, it's all just the lying and the underhandness and the creepiness of it all.

00:47:52.431 --> 00:48:00.780
So, um, the last few points I just want to cover, is that any sperm donor should not have any hereditary illnesses that can be passed on.

00:48:00.891 --> 00:48:01.420
Oh God.

00:48:01.570 --> 00:48:08.280
And Klein says that he believed all of his children were healthy, because he only sparingly gave his sperm samples.

00:48:08.300 --> 00:48:09.871
Oh no, they were all part turtle.

00:48:09.871 --> 00:48:10.744
Part turtle.

00:48:10.744 --> 00:48:18.121
No, but a lot of them, pretty much all of them actually, have an auto immune disease, like blood clotting.

00:48:18.431 --> 00:48:22.271
some have spent weeks in hospital with digestion and colon issues.

00:48:22.751 --> 00:48:26.650
And it turns out since the seventies, Klein had rheumatoid arthritis.

00:48:27.001 --> 00:48:34.831
And so if he does have an auto immune disease, which could affect his offspring, he should never have been allowed to be a sperm donor in the first place.

00:48:35.286 --> 00:48:38.576
Yet, if he knew he had this, he went ahead and did it anyway.

00:48:38.715 --> 00:48:40.505
And he's claiming that he didn't know this.

00:48:40.626 --> 00:48:44.945
he had Rheumatoid Arthritis in the 70s, which was before he started his clinic.

00:48:45.056 --> 00:48:48.715
I think what the report was suggesting is that he probably did know.

00:48:48.715 --> 00:48:49.956
It's implying that he did know, yeah.

00:48:50.456 --> 00:48:54.025
Another one of his biological daughters finds out what happened to her.

00:48:54.485 --> 00:48:55.615
when she was watching a U.

00:48:55.615 --> 00:48:55.795
S.

00:48:55.795 --> 00:49:06.146
talk show, which had Jacoba on, and some of her other siblings appeared, She instantly recognized those names because of what appeared on her 23andMe results.

00:49:06.646 --> 00:49:14.815
And so, she instantly knew what happened to her, but the thing is, though, like Julie and her family, she thought her dad was her biological dad.

00:49:15.315 --> 00:49:20.119
And Clyde even came to her house to visit to check in on her her family when she was born.

00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:26.289
And there's a photo of Klein picking her up when she's eight months old, so she's with her biological dad and he came over.

00:49:26.360 --> 00:49:27.510
That's really creepy.

00:49:28.010 --> 00:49:34.833
And not only did she have to come to terms with all of that, she ended up being a patient of Klein's herself.

00:49:35.333 --> 00:49:36.833
Now for insemination.

00:49:36.882 --> 00:49:40.239
he was her fertility doctor and also for gynecological needs.

00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:40.759
I think as well.

00:49:40.829 --> 00:49:47.708
Mm hmm and was no he didn't follow He didn't father one of her children, but he did examine her.

00:49:47.869 --> 00:49:48.028
He

00:49:48.028 --> 00:49:48.768
examined her That's his

00:49:48.778 --> 00:49:52.199
daughter Yeah, and he knew that Most likely.

00:49:52.449 --> 00:49:53.099
Let's rank.

00:49:53.309 --> 00:49:53.668
Yep.

00:49:54.168 --> 00:49:57.329
And lastly, the bit that you asked about is how many children.

00:49:57.378 --> 00:50:02.568
So, Jacoba started her journey wanting to find one or two siblings that she could bond with.

00:50:02.858 --> 00:50:07.505
Well, at the time of this podcast, There are 93 siblings out there.

00:50:07.574 --> 00:50:07.775
Shit.

00:50:07.775 --> 00:50:12.114
93!

00:50:12.114 --> 00:50:13.614
And that's all that we know about.

00:50:13.855 --> 00:50:14.554
And counting.

00:50:14.565 --> 00:50:14.735
And they're

00:50:14.864 --> 00:50:17.704
all just popped up from the 23andMe.

00:50:17.704 --> 00:50:20.556
That's the only avenue that we're collecting siblings through.

00:50:20.780 --> 00:50:22.130
As far as I'm aware, yes.

00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:23.590
Unless there's other DNA.

00:50:24.090 --> 00:50:26.659
Wow, do we have any are they all in the

00:50:26.659 --> 00:50:27.239
same area?

00:50:27.300 --> 00:50:27.849
Pretty much.

00:50:27.849 --> 00:50:29.489
A lot of them have blonde hair and blue eyes.

00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:29.940
Wow.

00:50:29.949 --> 00:50:33.590
There's even a thought like, was he trying to build like some kind of perfect race?

00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:34.349
Oh gosh.

00:50:34.349 --> 00:50:38.039
But there's all these kind of conspiracy theories that come off the back of this thing.

00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:40.420
But I think this guy was gross.

00:50:40.449 --> 00:50:52.025
And yeah, actually, since, um, this, news came to light, you there's actually been 50 doctors that have been identified to have used their own sperm for artificial inseminations.

00:50:52.204 --> 00:50:52.730
But Dr.

00:50:52.730 --> 00:50:54.965
Klein is the most prolific of all of them.

00:50:55.144 --> 00:50:55.835
The fact that

00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:59.614
there is just another one that they know about that is horrendous.

00:50:59.619 --> 00:51:03.394
This is a gross abuse of trust.

00:51:03.425 --> 00:51:03.454
Mm.

00:51:04.324 --> 00:51:06.784
The fact that there's more out there, that just shocks me.

00:51:07.284 --> 00:51:08.695
How long has he been doing this over what?

00:51:09.150 --> 00:51:10.940
What period do they think that he's been doing this

00:51:10.940 --> 00:51:11.210
over?

00:51:11.260 --> 00:51:13.750
So he started his clinic in 1979.

00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:19.746
I think he worked for 30 years, but I think the siblings they're all around 30 to 40 years old.

00:51:20.067 --> 00:51:22.686
So they think it's probably in a space of 5 to 10 years he did this.

00:51:22.757 --> 00:51:23.646
Okay, and then he gave

00:51:23.646 --> 00:51:23.896
up.

00:51:23.907 --> 00:51:24.956
He was like, I've got enough

00:51:24.956 --> 00:51:25.387
kids.

00:51:25.686 --> 00:51:26.217
Probably, yeah.

00:51:26.217 --> 00:51:28.367
I don't know why he gave up, but yeah.

00:51:28.867 --> 00:51:29.137
Wow.

00:51:29.637 --> 00:51:30.606
That's crazy.

00:51:30.606 --> 00:51:30.976
Yeah.

00:51:31.007 --> 00:51:43.179
And in 2018, the mothers and siblings involved this, did manage to get legislation passed successfully in Indiana, making it, illegal for any illicit donor inseminations.

00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:47.440
which is a result for them, because they finally got some kind of justice in this.

00:51:47.929 --> 00:51:52.750
However, from what I understand, there's no federal law, which means it could happen in other states still.

00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:53.179
Sure.

00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:56.760
And there won't be a federal law until something really bad happens.

00:51:56.760 --> 00:52:00.860
like when it comes to the federal government, they don't really like to intervene until they absolutely have to.

00:52:00.860 --> 00:52:11.159
And yeah, like with the skyjacking when we did, the DB Cooper, we found that all those skyjackings were happening throughout the seventies and it wasn't even illegal.

00:52:11.219 --> 00:52:14.869
They didn't make it illegal until years and years later, so there probably won't

00:52:14.900 --> 00:52:15.250
be a law.

00:52:15.750 --> 00:52:26.146
Yeah, and if it's a federal law anyway, but more states, hopefully we'll take this on board But yeah, what a crazy crazy story and it just really affects a lot of people's lives.

00:52:26.335 --> 00:52:28.076
Wow it's just gross and murky.

00:52:28.215 --> 00:52:28.545
Mm hmm.

00:52:28.686 --> 00:52:29.266
Exactly

00:52:29.365 --> 00:52:31.065
oh, I'm sad it wasn't Kelvin Klein.

00:52:31.565 --> 00:52:33.695
Because that'd be cool to have Kelvin Klein as your dad, right?

00:52:34.195 --> 00:52:35.815
Okay, Dad, can you hook me up with some underwear?

00:52:36.206 --> 00:52:37.146
Oh yeah, okay, great.

00:52:37.476 --> 00:52:37.726
Thanks.

00:52:37.826 --> 00:52:38.295
yeah, maybe.

00:52:39.525 --> 00:52:40.365
Let's run

00:52:40.376 --> 00:52:40.965
the outro.

00:52:41.465 --> 00:52:46.496
And so we come to the end of another episode of the Compendium, an assembly of fascinating and intriguing things.

00:52:46.990 --> 00:52:51.681
If you found today's episode both fascinating and intriguing, then please subscribe and leave us a review.

00:52:52.101 --> 00:52:55.400
And don't just stop there, schedule your episodes to download automatically.

00:52:55.851 --> 00:53:04.090
Doing this not only ensures you're always in the loop, but also boosts our visibility, helping us to serve you even more captivating tales straight to your ears.

00:53:04.581 --> 00:53:09.851
you can also follow us on Instagram at The Compendium Podcast, or visit our home on the web at thecompendiumpodcast.

00:53:09.880 --> 00:53:09.981
com.

00:53:10.851 --> 00:53:19.621
We release new episodes every Tuesday, and so until then, remember, be careful when delving into your DNA, as it can be like peering into a two way mirror.

00:53:20.460 --> 00:53:24.490
The image before you might be concealing something unexpected on the other side.

00:53:24.990 --> 00:53:26.210
Like Debbie and her

00:53:26.581 --> 00:53:26.681
boobies.

00:53:27.181 --> 00:53:28.110
I don't think her name was Debbie.

00:53:28.610 --> 00:53:29.891
Why can't it just be Debbie?

00:53:30.391 --> 00:53:31.811
I just feel like it's Debbie.

00:53:32.021 --> 00:53:37.371
Like Dirty Debs, coming back from The medical student kind of dormitory, with her loads.

00:53:37.371 --> 00:53:40.641
Until next

00:53:40.641 --> 00:53:40.951
week.

00:53:41.351 --> 00:53:42.170
See you later.

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